Would you support a theocracy if...

[URAVIP2ME]

And how is that not an evil dictatorship that destroys all that disagree with the ruler?

Even in human courts the sentence is against law breakers, wrong doers, criminals.
Because sentence against a crime is Not speedily executed the hearts of men go bad.
There is a BIG difference between killing, murder and an execution for the sake of the righteous ones.
The 'sword-like executional words from Jesus' mouth' will execute the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15.
Otherwise, the wicked would end up murdering all right-hearted ones.
Earth was Not created for evil people - Proverbs 2:21-22; Psalms 37:9-11
As Ruler, Jesus' rule is his New commandment found at John 13:34-35 to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as he has.
In other words, the Rule is to now love neighbor more than self. More than the Golden Rule of Leviticus 19:18.
There is nothing evil about such rulership.

 

[I Am A Chimera]

... you knew for a fact that God Himself appointed the King?
Think back to the biblical book of Judges. The Israelites had God prove His literal existence for them, so they knew for a fact their Abrahamic God was real and they would listen to the Judge He would appoint (sometimes).
Suppose we were in a similar situation like that. Hypothetical; One day, a big booming voice comes out of the sky for everyone to hear, saying “I have decided that it would be best if so-and-so was king of everyone, so everyone listen to him now.” Then God shoots a bunch of fire out of the sky or something scary to make everyone believe that it was God.
Would you support this king? In this hypothetical, we would all have the free will to follow this king or not. As an anarchist, I think the only kind of government I could get behind is a theocracy, but only if the government was to be literally appointed by God Himself. So in this hypothetical I would follow the new king. Would you?

I'm a Noahide. By definition I already support Theocracy.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

How about Mark Twain's take on man's idea of heaven (from Letter 2, Letters From the Earth):

"[Man] has imagined a heaven, and has left entirely out of it the supremest of all his delights, the one ecstasy that stands first and foremost in the heart of every individual of his race -- and of ours -- sexual intercourse!
"It is as if a lost and perishing person in a roasting desert should be told by a rescuer he might choose and have all longed-for things but one, and he should elect to leave out water!
His heaven is like himself: strange, interesting, astonishing, grotesque. I give you my word, it has not a single feature in it that he actually values. It consists -- utterly and entirely -- of diversions which he cares next to nothing about, here in the earth, yet is quite sure he will like them in heaven. Isn't it curious? Isn't it interesting?"

How about God's take on God's idea of heaven ( from Scripture )
In Heaven there is No crime, No war, No pollution, No sickness and No death in Heaven.
Those called to heaven have two (2) jobs to do according to Revelation 5:9-10.
They are to serve mankind, the humble meek people who will inherit the Earth as Jesus promised - Matthew 5:5.
They will serve in Heaven with Jesus in doing both jobs: as kings and as priests:
* As kings they have the job of taking care of governmental responsibilities towards people living on Earth.
* As priests they have the job of taking care of spiritual duties towards people living on Earth.
In other words, the same healthy conditions that already exist in Heaven will come to exist on Earth.
God's will ( His purpose ) will be done on Earth as it is done in Heaven.
(...... thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on Earth as it is done in Heaven.....)
This is why we are all invited to pray the invitation to God for Jesus to come ! (Rev. 22:20)
Come and bring ' healing ' to earth's nations - Revelation 22:2
Healing to the point that No one will say, " I am sick....." - Isaiah 33:24
Earth and its people will be happy and healthy as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.
Wars will forever stop - Psalms 46:9
Jesus will have subjects, citizens, from one end of Earth to the other end - Psalms 72:8; Psalms 72:12-14.
Even ' enemy death ' will be No more on Earth - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Heaven sounds wonderful to me though I understand we have differences of opinions on this. I like the harp and all kinds of music. I like the idea of singing along praise to God among a great multitude. It feels like community in my opinion.

Besides music, I find those resurrected to Heaven have two (2) job positions to fill. - Revelation 5:9-10
Under Christ they serve with him in the job assignment of being both kings and priests for people of Earth.
The humble meek people who will inherit the Earth as Jesus promised - Matthew 5:5 from Psalms 37:9-11,29.
So, just as Earth was meant to be a community so is Heaven, however, there is a difference:
Difference is everlasting life for only some is Heaven. For the majority everlasting life is to live forever on Earth.

 

[Psalm23]

How about Mark Twain's take on man's idea of heaven (from Letter 2, Letters From the Earth):

"[Man] has imagined a heaven, and has left entirely out of it the supremest of all his delights, the one ecstasy that stands first and foremost in the heart of every individual of his race -- and of ours -- sexual intercourse!

"It is as if a lost and perishing person in a roasting desert should be told by a rescuer he might choose and have all longed-for things but one, and he should elect to leave out water!
His heaven is like himself: strange, interesting, astonishing, grotesque. I give you my word, it has not a single feature in it that he actually values. It consists -- utterly and entirely -- of diversions which he cares next to nothing about, here in the earth, yet is quite sure he will like them in heaven. Isn't it curious? Isn't it interesting?"

I am content with this. Heaven sounds wonderful in my opinion from what I have read in the Scripture.

 

[74x12]

... you knew for a fact that God Himself appointed the King?
Think back to the biblical book of Judges. The Israelites had God prove His literal existence for them, so they knew for a fact their Abrahamic God was real and they would listen to the Judge He would appoint (sometimes).
Suppose we were in a similar situation like that. Hypothetical; One day, a big booming voice comes out of the sky for everyone to hear, saying “I have decided that it would be best if so-and-so was king of everyone, so everyone listen to him now.” Then God shoots a bunch of fire out of the sky or something scary to make everyone believe that it was God.
Would you support this king? In this hypothetical, we would all have the free will to follow this king or not. As an anarchist, I think the only kind of government I could get behind is a theocracy, but only if the government was to be literally appointed by God Himself. So in this hypothetical I would follow the new king. Would you?

Yes, I wouldn't want to end up like these people:

Luke 19
He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. ...
But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.

And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom,
...
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

 

[Pudding]

... you knew for a fact that God Himself appointed the King?
Think back to the biblical book of Judges. The Israelites had God prove His literal existence for them, so they knew for a fact their Abrahamic God was real and they would listen to the Judge He would appoint (sometimes).
Suppose we were in a similar situation like that. Hypothetical; One day, a big booming voice comes out of the sky for everyone to hear, saying “I have decided that it would be best if so-and-so was king of everyone, so everyone listen to him now.” Then God shoots a bunch of fire out of the sky or something scary to make everyone believe that it was God.
Would you support this king? In this hypothetical, we would all have the free will to follow this king or not. As an anarchist, I think the only kind of government I could get behind is a theocracy, but only if the government was to be literally appointed by God Himself. So in this hypothetical I would follow the new king. Would you?

There're many different versions of Abrahamic God believe by various different Abrahamic religions sects or individual believer.
Some versions of God are pro-misogyny, some are not.
Some are pro-racism, many are not.
Some are pro-slavery, many are not.
Some are anti-blood donation, many are not.
Some are anti-mixed fabrics cloth, many are not.
...etc.

Which version of God are you referring to in your hypothetical scenario?

Are the God you referring to a pro-misogyny/racism/slavery one? If that's the case, i wonder those believers who previously believe in an anti-misogyny/racism/slavery God, would they support the king appointed by a pro-misogyny/racism/slavery God?

Are the God you referring to an anti-misogyny/racism/slavery one? If that's the case, i wonder those believers who previously believe in a pro-misogyny/racism/slavery God, would they support the king appointed by an anti-misogyny/racism/slavery God?

So, if the God in this hypothetical scenario is pro-misogyny, pro-racism, pro-slavery, pro-genocide, pro-paedophile, anti-blood donation, anti-mixed fabrics cloth, order us to stone rebellious children, order the rape victims to marry the rapists, ready to drown/burn/whatever everyone if everyone don't do whatever he says everyone needs to do. Would you support the king appointed by this God? Would you join this king's religion and pay the membership fees? Would you do whatever this king says whatever God says whatever you need to do?

If the God in this hypothetical scenario is anti-misogyny, anti-racism, anti-slavery, anti-genocide, anti-paedophile, pro-blood donation, pro-mixed fabrics cloth, DON'T order us to stone rebellious children, DON'T order the rape victims to marry the rapists, DON'T ready to drown/burn/whatever everyone if everyone don't do whatever he says everyone needs to do. Would you support the king appointed by this God? Would you join this king's religion and pay the membership fees? Would you do whatever this king says whatever God says whatever you need to do?

 

[Psalm23]

Yes, I wouldn't want to end up like these people:

Luke 19
He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. ...
But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.

And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom,
...
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

I think that Jesus was speaking of himself as this nobleman in this parable.

 

[lukethethird]

... you knew for a fact that God Himself appointed the King?
Think back to the biblical book of Judges. The Israelites had God prove His literal existence for them, so they knew for a fact their Abrahamic God was real and they would listen to the Judge He would appoint (sometimes).
Suppose we were in a similar situation like that. Hypothetical; One day, a big booming voice comes out of the sky for everyone to hear, saying “I have decided that it would be best if so-and-so was king of everyone, so everyone listen to him now.” Then God shoots a bunch of fire out of the sky or something scary to make everyone believe that it was God.
Would you support this king? In this hypothetical, we would all have the free will to follow this king or not. As an anarchist, I think the only kind of government I could get behind is a theocracy, but only if the government was to be literally appointed by God Himself. So in this hypothetical I would follow the new king. Would you?

This opening post is far too wordy, the following was said by a pro;

19“Come, follow Me,” Jesus said, “and I will make you fishers of men.”

20And at once they left their nets and followed Him.…

 

[Sheldon]

And atheists complain that God doesn't simply reveal Himself!

That's a spurious claim, atheists by definition don't believe any deity or deities exist to reveal themselves. Do you complain that all the deities you don't believe exist, don't reveal themselves to you?

 

[Psalm23]

@Xavier Graham SA , if I was convinced that God thought it was best to appoint the king and for us to listen to him, I think I would follow and support the king . However the idea of fire from heaven falling seems suspicious. It reminds me too much of the beast in Revelation 13:13-14.

 

[Sheldon]

So much for free will, my support is earned by actions, it cannot be offered prima facie, based on naught but arbitrary authority.

It is of my own free will that I fear God. I can choose to sin and disregard my fear for Him, and at times I do.

You don’t suppose you would be fearful enough to, given that God has proven Himself? For me, the fear of not listening to this new king and God would be my number one motivating factor in my obedience.

Well the way you worded seemed to suggest you were not entirely free, but leaving that aside, don't you care what actions a deity or king would take are more important factors in obeying them, than fearing what they might do if you do not? I feel Godwin's law is creeping up on me again...

I don't believe my moral apprehension should be limited solely to only considering the consequences for me. Fear of consequences for myself is natural, but I could not blindly obey anyone, just out of fear for my own safety. If a deity existed, and wanted me to obey it, let alone worship it, it would need to be worthy of it. Why would I set a lower standard of morality for a deity, even hypothetically, than I would for humans, who are just one species of evolved apes?

 

[74x12]

I think that Jesus was speaking of himself as this nobleman in this parable.

Absolutely. And he is the Great King.

 

[Psalm23]

Absolutely. And he is the Great King.

I agree.

 

[robocop (actually)]

That's a spurious claim, atheists by definition don't believe any deity or deities exist to reveal themselves. Do you complain that all the deities you don't believe exist, don't reveal themselves to you?

Correction:

Atheists say that if God existed He should reveal Himself, yet in this thread they show that they wouldn't even obey Him if He indisputably did.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I would question why could not this God rule directly without the need of an intercessor. After all, if God's voice could be heard by most everybody, then why the need for the appointed King? I would suspect this seemingly omnipresent voice appointing a King to be some sort of extraterrestrial artificial intelligence deception in order to manipulate or control humanity

In Eden we see that God did govern ( direct rule - Genesis 2:17 ) before Adam broke God's Law.
It is 'sin' that separates us from God and thus that is why we have Jesus as mediator - 1 Timothy 2:5
By the end of Jesus' coming 1,000 year reign over Earth righteous mankind will have that one-on-one direct rule back with God as Adam originally did.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

@Xavier Graham SA , if I was convinced that God thought it was best to appoint the king and for us to listen to him, I think I would follow and support the king . However the idea of fire from heaven falling seems suspicious. It reminds me too much of the beast in Revelation 13:13-14.

Remember: Revelation is written in very-vivid word pictures for us. Not all is literal.
Not fire, so please notice Isaiah 11:3-4 and Revelation 19:14-15 because it is Not fire, but the ' sword-like executional words from (King) Jesus' mouth ' that will rid the Earth of the wicked. (Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22)
Notice that Jesus is King at Jesus' coming Glory Time of separation on Earth as found at Matthew 25:31-34 A.
Jesus is King of God's Kingdom ( thy kingdom come....) for a thousand years - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I think that Jesus was speaking of himself as this nobleman in this parable.

Yes, I agree that Jesus is the nobleman of Luke 19:11-27.
And as both returning nobleman and king (verse 27) Jesus is God's theocratic King for a thousand years.
Then, at the end of the thousand years Jesus hands back God's kingdom to his God - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26

 

[Truth&Hope]

... you knew for a fact that God Himself appointed the King?
Think back to the biblical book of Judges. The Israelites had God prove His literal existence for them, so they knew for a fact their Abrahamic God was real and they would listen to the Judge He would appoint (sometimes).
Suppose we were in a similar situation like that. Hypothetical; One day, a big booming voice comes out of the sky for everyone to hear, saying “I have decided that it would be best if so-and-so was king of everyone, so everyone listen to him now.” Then God shoots a bunch of fire out of the sky or something scary to make everyone believe that it was God.
Would you support this king? In this hypothetical, we would all have the free will to follow this king or not. As an anarchist, I think the only kind of government I could get behind is a theocracy, but only if the government was to be literally appointed by God Himself. So in this hypothetical I would follow the new king. Would you?

Especially, if a booming voice and fire came out of the sky; no one else could do that.

 

[Sheldon]

Correction:

Atheists say that if God existed He should reveal Himself,

No they don't, you are making up a straw man claim, and using it as a sweeping generalisation, again atheists do not believe any deity exists, so do you insist all the deities you do not believe in reveal themselves? You never answered before??

yet in this thread they show that they wouldn't even obey Him if He indisputably did.

The atheists in this thread are answering a hypothetical question.