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Xeper and the Self

Sireal

Setian
Some thoughts inspired by a private discussion.

The path of Xeper is a journey to the Self. This journey is unique and highly individual. No one can judge your process so long as one is pursuing hir Xeper with integrity and honest effort. One of the main functions of an Initiatory body is to offer the individual initiate a peer reviewed assessment of their progress on the LHP. The propensity for power to corrupt at this level of initiation is more than alluring, but it is also a test of ones own integrity. Can an initiate objectively assess the state of another's Being without having achieved some mastery over their life themselves? I do not think so.

Say for instance, Betty who is 29 became a prostitute (instigated by her "dad" using her for sex since she was 9), drug addict and had her kids taken away by social services found out about the Temple through an overheard conversation wants to join but is turned down, finds all the stuff she can at the library and prints off all the pirated ToS material she can and works her *** off to learn and apply Xeper to her life eventually has been clean for a year and a half, has a modest apartment, $268.00 in her bank account, her kids living with her healthy and well fed and going to school and a job as a receptionist and is just barely making ends meet but Doing it. She sends in her appication and is accepted this time.

Then there is Tom who is 29 has a good job, breezed through school because of a high IQ and has never had anything really go wrong with his life, he finds the Temple because he always like to read everything he can find on the occult because it gave him a sense of power that others feared and sits at his computer play's D&D or WoWC and loves to talk about all the obscure books he's read on alt.satanism or some other list like this one and feels he's become a great magician because the Temple has given him a shot at becoming Adept-but he knows way more these folks anyway so he's not worried, he may even be writing books on the occult he's read so much, but never leaves his house and not much outside internal world ever occurs.

Here's Susan who has a Ph.D. in Physics has worked for a major bio-tech firm for ten years and has really begun to think about the magical life she left behind all those years ago, ever since one of her colleagues mentioned Setian philosophy to her and how his life had changed through his own will. Her grant funding is gauranteed for life, she's worked hard but see's the work benefits some mega corp that is spreading lethal pesticides all over planet and decides her ethical standards have not only been comprmised but she's part of the destruction of the places she's never been too. She reads the ToS web site and decides to join, she lurks for a few months reads and re-reads the CT, talks to a Master of the Temple about the undertaking and decides she is going to put this to the test and quits her job and starts her own company funded by selling her assets in order to actively help the countries she had been paid to destroy by her former employer...This means moving out of the $2500 a month appartment, selling the mercedes and getting a toyota but she does't care, and re-adjusts her life without too much difficulty and eventually developes a new pesticide that has no harmful affects on the environment.

Which of these people is recognizable as an Adept Black Magician?

Initiation does not happen through reading books or playing games, those things are just fun. Initiation is Hard Work and does not occur in static environments it thrives on change, chaos and the mastery of all environments. Initiation does not occur by listening to second hand information or mystical hogwash. True Initiation is passed from mouth to ear, in an environment where value judgments are not part of the curriculum but Recognition is.
 

blackout

Violet.
Is there really a need for an-other to 'asses' your "progress"?

Besides my own daughter (17) who lives with me,
as my closest, and very mature confidante... there is no one
who could even remotely understand the depths of my journey...
or my personal BEcoming.
Where I have been, what I have given up, how I have re-made mySelf...

As close as I am with Nanda... she has only known me a year.
She did not witness what I BEcame from.
So she can understand only in a second hand, though very intimate & meaningful, way.

Certainly no one in any "temple" group could touch this at all.

IMHO
 
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Sireal

Setian
Hi UltraViolet,

"Is there really a need for an-other to 'asses' your "progress"?
"

When working with Black Magic I think it is a good idea to have guidance from those with a modicum of mastery and objectivity under their belt now and then, yes.

"Certainly no one in any "temple" group could touch this at all".


In general terms most emphatically No- no one could even begin to assess another entire Being. In an environment where the Understanding of Xeper is the purpose for even considering allowing others assessment. This I think is part of Initiation and the process of using accurate empirical information mastered by others to gauge ones own progress on the Path. Otherwise I think the dangers of solipsism, which is insidious in LHP thought go unchecked and the initiate does little more than make an enemy out its future, which is their divine right to do of course, more exotic forms of sleep are sometimes fascinating to observe momentarily:cover: but mostly it just ends badly.

But you are right on the money where your Being is concerned. My own daughter knows me better than other human ever will or could. Ontologically speaking though this has nothing to do with Setian Initiation.
 

ViaSinistra

Member
Great thread conversation thus far. I would have to say Betty Sireal, only because she has Xepered via intent. This opened LBM doors for her future by her Will of change alone.

UltraViolet has made some great strides in the time i've known her and continues to Xeper even though she's done most of it on her own, without the support of a group mentality to aid her. I encourage her to continue this refinement process.
 

blackout

Violet.
Hi UltraViolet,..............


But you are right on the money where your Being is concerned. My own daughter knows me better than other human ever will or could. Ontologically speaking though this has nothing to do with Setian Initiation.

I should probably not have spoken,
as I know nothing of actual temple initiation.

I'm sure you were speaking of something more specific to Setian initiation,
re. peer reviewed assesments.

My apologies.... though I am quite sure you took no offence.

I have come to the point that I would actually love to join the ToS
as a full fledged member.
I brought it up with Via, but have not yet discussed it with him at any lengths.
 

Sireal

Setian
I should probably not have spoken,
as I know nothing of actual temple initiation.

I'm sure you were speaking of something more specific to Setian initiation,
re. peer reviewed assesments.

My apologies.... though I am quite sure you took no offence.

I have come to the point that I would actually love to join the ToS
as a full fledged member.
I brought it up with Via, but have not yet discussed it with him at any lengths.

Actually UV I am glad you spoke up. It is exactly this sort of dialogue that re-frames our thinking to become more accurate and rational. otherwise we tend to lump everything together into a central hub in our thought process and everything gets pretty tangled up. With that in mind i invite questions through this process so that the heart of a matter may be empirically accessed and , I do not find such questioning offensive in the least but more than that it points out a Need to Know which supplies an opportunity to share a very small window of what Setian Initiation can be. Your intuition serves you well and I do not expect non-Setians to know what that is like. There are no stupid question if they are sincere, insincerity on the other hand (that would be the right;)) gets blown out of the water on principle.

If you think the Temple is a possible path for you, then just do it, it is very hard to tell if someone is a good fit and the first degree is all about checking it out for compatibility. It is also a conscious commitment to your own Initiation and self improvement and no-one can take that from you. Like Via spoke of in another thread, juggling kids, work, home and Initiation is a lot to keep balanced, if you are good at time management and keeping a strong focus you will likely have a great time, if you think that your family would suffer it may be wise to wait a while until they are more self-sufficient, again though only you know what is right for you.

Sireal wishes you a Fine day :)
 

blackout

Violet.
Hi UltraViolet,

"Is there really a need for an-other to 'asses' your "progress"?"

When working with Black Magic I think it is a good idea to have guidance from those with a modicum of mastery and objectivity under their belt now and then, yes.

"Certainly no one in any "temple" group could touch this at all".

.................. Otherwise I think the dangers of solipsism, which is insidious in LHP thought go unchecked and the initiate does little more than make an enemy out its future, which is their divine right to do of course, more exotic forms of sleep are sometimes fascinating to observe momentarily:cover: but mostly it just ends badly.

Tonight I am in a much better place to contemplate and respond,
and what you say here, actually, is quite true.

I have a natural nack for LBM... and was "doing it" (in my own unique ways):D
even before I knew what it was called, or that there was a name for it at all. lol.
Beyond that though... one must tread with great caution.
The assistance of others experienced in both Black Magick AND in Life Itself,
who have sucessfully BEcome in Self and World...
is an invaluable help and safeguard for the less experienced.

Regarding your second comment....
it calls to mind when I nearly became a piece of statuary in my own mind,
as my Reality Structure was first beginning to break down.
(a number of years back)
'Luckily' I wound up with months of heightened epiphany...
instead of a mental breakdown that could have ruined my entire life.
(maybe not exactly what you meant... but the same general ramifications)

I truly enjoy your threads Sireal.

In (mutual) Respect ;),
~Violet~
 
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Magnetic7

New Member
I surmise that it is Susan who is most likely candidate for Adept Black Magician. Her changes affect not only her own personal sphere, but humankind on a greater scale. Thus, Willed, visible alteration of the Sub and Obj U's, manifesting reverberating waves across multiple levels of consiousness...
 
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Sireal

Setian
I would agree with your assessment Magnetic, from my own perspective.

I would not blow Betty off lightly either though, there is great potential in digging the self out of the mire the mundane world would have us live in in order to recognize the Self. That sort of self actualizing is a piece of a much larger puzzle that is the Self and when one has gone that far ..why not go a ways further, this is the point where a foray into deeper levels of Being may be considered. Regardless of taking on such tasks she has completely transformed herself by herself and has made a path she can work with on her own terms-an act of Self Recognition-Essential! with past successes firmly validated and the same effort towards her future Self she will become Adept. Probably a scary one too....:D

Mastery, however, requires that one stretch the boundaries of one's being and take those quantum jumps out of familiarity and stasis with the skill to smoothly land on ones feet. The Being in fact Remanifests, another of the Aeonic Words in the Temple that assists greatly in defining Xeper and the vastness of the experience of Self. From this view it can be seen that Susan is the Adept and Betty, who may one day be Susan's teacher, is in a good position to take complete charge of her SU but in no position to turn her OU inside out.

These are very narrow parameters for such a discussion and intended only to illustrate a point. The experience that is brought to the LHP by individuals is vast and varied and a true wonder to behold.
 

L.Keane

Master Cosmonaut~EoB
Mastery, however, requires that one stretch the boundaries of one's being and take those quantum jumps out of familiarity and stasis with the skill to smoothly land on ones feet.

On that note then, can you speak to the connection, as you see it, between Set, the Black Flame and the Subjective Universe in the process of mastery? I realise that this is a complex question. I was going to post the question in a separate thread but it seems fitting for this one. Great post btw.
 

L.Keane

Master Cosmonaut~EoB
I realise that my question presented above is very upon ended. I guess what I am asking is: Is the Black flame what drives us to "Become" and is that flame, in turn, derived from Set? Also, is the Subjective universe the matrix through which one gains mastery of oneself (for example using LBM) or are both the Objective universe and the Subjective universe seen as the matrix through which one works toward mastery? I hope that is a bit more specific.
 

Sireal

Setian
I realise that my question presented above is very upon ended. I guess what I am asking is: Is the Black flame what drives us to "Become" and is that flame, in turn, derived from Set? Also, is the Subjective universe the matrix through which one gains mastery of oneself (for example using LBM) or are both the Objective universe and the Subjective universe seen as the matrix through which one works toward mastery? I hope that is a bit more specific.

Thank you Mr. Keane, Great questions!

The Black Flame, the Fire of Life is the Gift of Set. It inspires the heart to seek mastery and yes to Become. Black Magic is the child of the Black Flame.
The SU is the matrix for active use and the testing ground for ones own Magic. Successful Black Magic is the tangible evidence of things not seen. The OU is also mastered this way. When both are Understood the Black Magician may bring them together- this act is Self Deification and is the Beginning of Knowledge (Adepthood). Every Being does this in its own way through its own Understanding of the Black Flame.
 

L.Keane

Master Cosmonaut~EoB
Thank you Mr. Keane, Great questions!

The Black Flame, the Fire of Life is the Gift of Set. It inspires the heart to seek mastery and yes to Become. Black Magic is the child of the Black Flame.
The SU is the matrix for active use and the testing ground for ones own Magic. Successful Black Magic is the tangible evidence of things not seen. The OU is also mastered this way. When both are Understood the Black Magician may bring them together- this act is Self Deification and is the Beginning of Knowledge (Adepthood). Every Being does this in its own way through its own Understanding of the Black Flame.

Thank you very much for clarifying those points for me Sireal; it helps make sense of a few things I've been reading regarding the ToS's general spiritual outlook.

Lloyd
 

Daelach

Setian
I guess what I am asking is: Is the Black flame what drives us to "Become"

Actually, it is something like curiosity that is the driving force. The difference to "normal" curiosity is that the normal one centers around a given person that wants to make some experiences, so that the consciousness making the experiences remains rather unchanged. Setian curiosity, however, centers exactly around consciousness, and this gives birth to the hunger of also making the experience of other forms of existance. Among others, this translates into Becoming.

Imagine that you meet someone you have not seen for 20 years, and you spend an evening together. Finally, the other person says "hey, you have lead a cool life, and you are still the same guy". For normal people, this would be some sort of compliment (having been true to whatever they were before) while a Setian should start to think whether he has failed in his quest so far.

and is that flame, in turn, derived from Set?

I would not see it this way. Rather, I would think of it as some sort of common quality between a Setian and Set - soulmates, in a way.

is the Subjective universe the matrix through which one gains mastery of oneself (for example using LBM) or are both the Objective universe and the Subjective universe seen as the matrix through which one works toward mastery?

I for my part have dumped that OU/SU-philosophy completely and am much more into radical constructivism, so from my point of view, this question does not make sense to me. There is nothing but thoughts followed by other thoughts.. anything else is just speculation (and therefore, also thoughts).
 

Kenaz

I Am
The SU is the matrix for active use and the testing ground for ones own Magic. Successful Black Magic is the tangible evidence of things not seen. The OU is also mastered this way. When both are Understood the Black Magician may bring them together- this act is Self Deification and is the Beginning of Knowledge (Adepthood). Every Being does this in its own way through its own Understanding of the Black Flame.

Sireal, could you please go into more detail on the two bold points in your above if you would, kindly?

Mainly..
a.) What is your view of the SU/OU concepts (definition)? b.) More explanation and elaboration on the SU/OU, and the matrix and active use theories. c.) The act of bringing the SU/OU together and how this brings Self Deification?
 
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Sireal

Setian
What is a LHP Magician if not Bold! I like that.:D

"The LHP involves the conscious attempt to preserve and strengthen one's isolate, psychecentric existence against the objective universe (OU) while apprehending, comprehending and influencing a varying number of subjective universes (SU)." BM by Dr. Michael A. Aquino.

The SU-everything you have immediate control over and can impact at will-what happens in your daily life, the contents of your mind, actions and use of your Will.
The OU is where you take your SU into and work as effectively as you are able. The world outside of Self, interacting with and influencing as many other SU's as possible. This becomes remarkably more effective when the SU is mastered.

If you become successful and master your SU that mastery becomes transferable to the OU. In some way we all do this ever day, thats what keeps societies moving, energy is provided by individuals to operate the OU and the only limitations are the contents of your SU. Most often though it is done in a very thoughtless way and that is the result of proceeding with false information as if it were real (insanity) which is plentiful in today's world.

This brings up a very valid point in our work which is how does one tell when they are in fact using the best information available? When about 95% of what is considered Occult writing is pure ******** where does one go to get good information? hmmmm let me think....I'm sure not going to get it from the bookstore owner who just wants to sell me Cunninghams new book of spells, I could try the library but where to start?......

This is where Initiatory Schools come into play. There are several-some are better than others, but the goal of each should be to create an environment for the scholarly pursuit of magical technology and provide the ground for working with this information where an Initiate can test his knowledge against that of her peers and find their own unique Self. Personality cults aside I think there are some good schools out there, the ToS being the best. "We exist to promote knowledge of the truth not to conceal it" M.A.A.

The bottom line is that it's Work. Work most people do not want to do, they'd rather talk about it and keep safe their pet theories. If one does the Work, then that elusive goal of self deification becomes a reality. Hope this helps.



Sireal, could you please go into more detail on the two bold points in your above if you would, kindly?

Mainly..
a.) What is your view of the SU/OU concepts (definition)? b.) More explanation and elaboration on the SU/OU, and the matrix and active use theories. c.) The act of bringing the SU/OU together and how this brings Self Deification?
 

Kenaz

I Am
Firstly, Sireal, thank you very much for such an awesome and "thirst-quenching" response to my questions. It did indeed help clarify my short-coming of comprehending your intended lesson in the previously quoted text of yours. :)

What is a LHP Magician if not Bold! I like that.:D

"The LHP involves the conscious attempt to preserve and strengthen one's isolate, psychecentric existence against the objective universe (OU) while apprehending, comprehending and influencing a varying number of subjective universes (SU)." BM by Dr. Michael A. Aquino.

The SU-everything you have immediate control over and can impact at will-what happens in your daily life, the contents of your mind, actions and use of your Will.
The OU is where you take your SU into and work as effectively as you are able. The world outside of Self, interacting with and influencing as many other SU's as possible. This becomes remarkably more effective when the SU is mastered.

If you become successful and master your SU that mastery becomes transferable to the OU. In some way we all do this ever day, thats what keeps societies moving, energy is provided by individuals to operate the OU and the only limitations are the contents of your SU. Most often though it is done in a very thoughtless way and that is the result of proceeding with false information as if it were real (insanity) which is plentiful in today's world.

A very simple and agreeable definition of the SU/OU and it's use with the other. A definition and theory that I think must be understood first before one moves on to further complex ideas and practice within the Setian/LHP practice.

Exactly, if one is not "grounded" in their own SU first; and "do not think for themSelves", than the result is "insanity" or a illogical view or belief. In one example, much like the many literal Christians today who, when questioned or asked with logic; they usually become apprehensive or angry and resort to either a.) directing the anger to the questioner or b.) use the "faith" and "you poor 'lost' soul, you need to be "saved" route. Both reactions, but nothing that looks to themSelves, but assuming the problem lies in the OU (or the other person, not themSelves).



This brings up a very valid point in our work which is how does one tell when they are in fact using the best information available? When about 95% of what is considered Occult writing is pure ******** where does one go to get good information? hmmmm let me think....I'm sure not going to get it from the bookstore owner who just wants to sell me Cunninghams new book of spells, I could try the library but where to start?......

This is where Initiatory Schools come into play. There are several-some are better than others, but the goal of each should be to create an environment for the scholarly pursuit of magical technology and provide the ground for working with this information where an Initiate can test his knowledge against that of her peers and find their own unique Self. Personality cults aside I think there are some good schools out there, the ToS being the best. "We exist to promote knowledge of the truth not to conceal it" M.A.A.

The bottom line is that it's Work. Work most people do not want to do, they'd rather talk about it and keep safe their pet theories. If one does the Work, then that elusive goal of self deification becomes a reality. Hope this helps.

Exactly! This is what my problem has been thus far after Xeper from my previous level of understanding and thinking from a young boy brought up a Christian, to comparative religions, to where I am today. Throughout all of that, I could never find a organization or group of people to sit firmly with because at first they would be a new "breath of fresh air", a new idea. This opened my Self to new ideas and a broader knowledge-base in which I could compare and see the many comparisons to form a new logic (Xeper). After a while, each new "stepping stone" or new philosophy or teaching a group held became stagnant with a lack of questioning and Will-ingness to question and Change (Xeper) from a part of their "pet" theory or belief when it did not stand up to logical reasoning or new, better information that opposed the previous thought belief held.

The difference I have seen, thus far with the ToS is their statements, like the quote from Dr. Michael Aquino you have above, that seems to show that Will-ingness to question, test by fire, and Change (Xeper, the very root Word of the "Aeon of Set" or ToS's philosophy/practice) if it doesn't hold up to logical and best-knowledge available reasoning by their peers. Like you said, "where an Initiate can test his knowledge against that of her peers and find their own unique Self." A simply beautiful and breath-of-fresh-air practice to see in such a stagnant and seemingly hidden dogma in many occult paths today.

I'll wait to hear your response to all of this. Thanks again, this has been a great and enlightening discussion! :angel2:
 

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
Say for instance, Betty who is 29 became a prostitute (instigated by her "dad" using her for sex since she was 9), drug addict and had her kids taken away by social services found out about the Temple through an overheard conversation wants to join but is turned down, finds all the stuff she can at the library and prints off all the pirated ToS material she can and works her *** off to learn and apply Xeper to her life eventually has been clean for a year and a half, has a modest apartment, $268.00 in her bank account, her kids living with her healthy and well fed and going to school and a job as a receptionist and is just barely making ends meet but Doing it. She sends in her appication and is accepted this time.

Betty is an Adept Black Magician. I find this story interesting as I myself am Working towards overcoming great adversity that has come my way at this point in my life. My Work has been hard and continues to be, but it must be Done if I am to reclaim my Life and restart my journey which is filled with great ambition, hopes, dreams. All of it is made possible through the acting upon my Will to Change and to Become more than just the sum of my parts. Through it all I know, by the knowledge of Set, that I will ascend and continue my journey and my quest on the Path of Xeper.

Hail, Set!

/Adramelek\
 
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