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Yahweh is less Divine than most humans

Spiderman

Veteran Member
I just got done reading more of the Bible from a God who is love, and scripture says love is kind, love is not puffed up".

And yet, the God who is love says"I will harden pharaohs heart so he will stubbornly refuse, so the Pharaoh will not listen to you, so that I may crush Egypt with major disasters..." Exodus
IMG_20240128_165611.jpg


He then proceeds to turn the Nile into blood, glorify the stench of all the dead fish and animals that find their habitat uninhabitable.

The Egyptian mother's and their children are screaming in agony from the curses and plagues, which increase when Jehovah sends an angel of death door to door to kill the first born children and babies who do not have the blood of a virgin lamb smeared on their doorposts,

.. and as the frightened Israelites are lead out into the wilderness, worried if this killer of children was going to provide, or if maybe the Egyptians were more humane.....

(That is an extremely legitimate concern to have, ) ..and the response from God for the crime of mistrust, was to exterminate a far larger percentage of the Jews on earth than died in the Holocaust. Moses proved in scripture that he was more merciful and loving than God, by arguing with God about how terrible his plans for genocide against those he just got done claiming he loved and cherished.

(Jehovah was telling Moses to Leave him alone, because he was planning on going to exterminate more than 99% of the Jews on the planet...)

Exodus 32:14​

14 And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

So, if "God is love, love is kind, love is not puffed up," (God's word) then Moses and most humans are more Divine than the author of much of scripture.

The government of Yahweh was also never democracy, but absolute monarchy, absolute theocracy, free speech is suppressed, free religion is suppressed, and people are given the death penalty for adultery or crimes as ridiculous as working on Sabbath.

Today that form of government resembles radical extremist regimes such as ISIS.

I live in the the twin cities where there is a shrine at Golden valley humane society, to the first victim of Ted Bundy, (Elizabeth Potter Perry) who used to work there. On the anniversary of her death, in 2022, it was memorial day, May 30th, and I found a Saint Philomena cord on the sidewalk. (A very unlikely find any day of the year even in a Catholic church.)

Red and white stripes. The white stripes are for purity and chastity, the red for suffering, penance, carrying the cross, martyrdom, humiliation.

When I visited Golden valley humane society to place my palm on the plaque that honors her ( has her name and a memorial quote) a prayer for her soul, ask for her help, intercession, dealing with a neglectful father whose cruelty has created an extremely miserable, unsafe, unpredictable, disturbing world in my experience

...
i shortly after, received a text from someone in another state, who did not know I was visiting a shrine to petition and bless the soul of an innocent girl who got stabbed to death while off at college.

The text was about Saint Maria Gorretti getting stabbed 14 times, and praying that she could spend eternity with the monster (devil) who was doing that to an innocent girl who loved and cared about him.

She realized he was unloved, scared, tortured, and compassion made her most concerned about the most tortured individuals having to go before the wrathful God who says "better to have a millstone tied around your neck and you be tossed into the sea" than to do what her attacker was guilty of.

After death, as a ghost, she proceeded to descend into his cell, to offer the devil 14 Lillies (flowers representing purity) for the 14 times he stabbed her, and eternal friends, even in prison.

The monster turned into a fervent servant, preaching what happened, making sure his actions and example were a reflection of her miracle , sent many persistence letters to the Pope demanding her canonization as soon as possible, and trying to stir up as many people as possible to honor her and pray so that the necessary amount of miracles would get her canonized.

Jesus Christ himself could have appeared to this man and it would not have had that (" beauty and the beast") type of effect. The kiss of Belle turned the cursed monster into a handsome princess The story goes.

Elizabeth Potter Perry has an additional middle name Ibby, which is an alternative for Isabel.

Isa means Jesus. Belle means Beauty/beautiful.

And I later discovered, she has the birthday of Saint Philomena, making the Philomena cord that I found anniversary of her death, that much more meaningful. Because that was not the day of her death, but it was truly her birthday.201575848_9d234f58-a740-44ec-88d3-b96ce2afadc3.jpeg
Elizabeth Ibby Perry, Isabel, pray for us sinners. Cousin of the virgin Mary, Elizabeth ....had a son named John
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I think God should let those in favor of love, supplant his pride, his wrath, his narcissistic ways that reach serial killer proportions (like that time King David took a census that God didn't like, so he sent a pestilence that killed 70,000 of his people... Classic serial killer mentality to start killing random people who are not guilty of what someone did that is bothering you.)

Isabel, a state of purity, inoccence , deification of victim souls who prayed to Jesus that they could have the right husband and be a mother some day....but the God they trusted instead allowed them to lose their virginity to a rapist who proceeded to violently murder them....

....I think they deserve a special reward and justice for the father who could have effortlessly helped them, promising them they could trust him...

...a version of Jesus Christ that is not a serial killer , or promoting a father who is a serial killer. I pray that we can have that version of an innocent loving God. God made women in His image too. ;)

East of Eden, Scorpio Islands, virgin islands, somewhere east of God's kingdom, May there be a realm , where people can enjoy a God who is love, who does not kill children.

Scripture says "God is love", which means that there are many human beings who are more Divine than the author of many verses in the scriptures. Can you argue otherwise?
 
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Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
I just got done reading more of the Bible from a God who is love, and scripture says love is kind, love is not puffed up".

And yet, the God who is love says"I will harden pharaohs heart so he will stubbornly refuse, so the Pharaoh will not listen to you, so that I may crush Egypt with major disasters..." ExodusView attachment 87488

He then proceeds to turn the Nile into blood, glorify the stench of all the dead fish and animals that find their habitat uninhabitable.

The Egyptian mother's and their children are screaming in agony from the curses and plagues, which increase when Jehovah sends an angel of death door to door to kill the first born children and babies who do not have the blood of a virgin lamb smeared on their doorposts,

.. and as the frightened Israelites are lead out into the wilderness, worried if this killer of children was going to provide, or if maybe the Egyptians were more humane.....

(That is an extremely legitimate concern to have, ) ..and the response from God for the crime of mistrust, was to exterminate a far larger percentage of the Jews on earth than died in the Holocaust. Moses proved in scripture that he was more merciful and loving than God, by arguing with God about how terrible his plans for genocide against those he just got done claiming he loved and cherished.

(Jehovah was telling Moses to Leave him alone, because he was planning on going to exterminate more than 99% of the Jews on the planet...)

Exodus 32:14​

14 And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

So, if "God is love, love is kind, love is not puffed up," (God's word) then Moses and most humans are more Divine than the author of much of scripture.

The government of Yahweh was also never democracy, but absolute monarchy, absolute theocracy, free speech is suppressed, free religion is suppressed, and people are given the death penalty for adultery or crimes as ridiculous as working on Sabbath.

Today that form of government resembles radical extremist regimes such as ISIS.

I live in the the twin cities where there is a shrine at Golden valley humane society, to the first victim of Ted Bundy, (Elizabeth Potter Perry) who used to work there. On the anniversary of her death, in 2022, it was memorial day, May 30th, and I found a Saint Philomena cord on the sidewalk. (A very unlikely find any day of the year even in a Catholic church.)

Red and white stripes. The white stripes are for purity and chastity, the red for suffering, penance, carrying the cross, martyrdom, humiliation.

When I visited Golden valley humane society to place my palm on the plaque that honors her ( has her name and a memorial quote) day a prayer for her soul, ask for her help, intercession, dealing with a neglectful father whose cruelty has created an extremely miserable, unsafe, unpredictable, disturbing world in my experience

...
i shortly after, received a text from someone in another state, who did not know I was visiting a shrine to petition and bless the soul of an innocent girl who got stabbed to death while off at college.

The text was about Saint Maria Gorretti getting stabbed 14 times, and praying that she could spend eternity with the monster (devil) who was doing that to an innocent girl who loved and cared about him.

She realized he was unloved, scared, tortured, and compassion made her most concerned about the most tortured individuals having to go before the wrathful God who says "better to have a millstone tied around your neck and you be tossed into the sea" than to do what her attacker was guilty of.

After death, as a ghost, she proceeded to descend into his cell, to offer the devil 14 Lillies (flowers representing purity) for the 14 times he stabbed her, and eternal friends, even in prison.

The monster turned into a fervent servant, preaching what happened, making sure his actions and example were a reflection of her miracle , sent many persistence letters to the Pope demanding her canonization as soon as possible, and trying to stir up as many people as possible to honor her and pray so that the necessary amount of miracles would get her canonized.

Jesus Christ himself could have appeared to this man and it would not have had that beauty and the beast type of effect. The kiss of Belle turned the cursed monster into a handsome princess The story goes.

Elizabeth Potter Perry has an additional middle name Ibby, which is an alternative for Isabel.

Isa means Jesus. Belle means Beauty/beautiful.

And I later discovered, she has the birthday of Saint Philomena, making the Philomena cord that I found anniversary of her death, that much more meaningful. Because that was not the day of her death, but it was truly her birthday.View attachment 87491
Elizabeth Ibby Perry, Isabel, pray for us sinners. Cousin of the virgin Mary, Elizabeth ....had a son named JohnView attachment 87496
View attachment 87492View attachment 87493View attachment 87494View attachment 87495


I think God should let those in favor of love, supplant his pride, his wrath, his narcissistic ways that reach serial killer proportions (like that time King David took a census that God didn't like, so he sent a pestilence that killed 70,000 of his people... Classic serial killer mentality to start killing random people who are not guilty of what someone did that is bothering you.)

Isabel, a state of purity, inoccence , deification of victim souls who prayed to Jesus that they could have the right husband and be a mother some day....but the God they trusted instead allowed them to lose their virginity to a rapist who proceeded to violently murder them....

....I think they deserve a special reward and justice for the father who could have effortlessly helped them, promising them they could trust him...

...a version of Jesus Christ that is not a serial killer , or promoting a father who is a serial killer. I pray that we can have that version of an innocent loving God. God made women in His image too. ;)

East of Eden, Scorpio Islands, virgin islands, somewhere east of God's kingdom, May there be a realm , where people can enjoy a God who is love, who does not kill children.

Scripture says "God is love", which means that there are many human beings who are more Divine than the author of many verses in the scriptures. Can you argue otherwise?

May I ask why you believe that this god exists? Has it ever occurred to you that these might be fictional stories written by arrogant, vengeful men who imagined a god who is just like them?
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
<yawn>

juvenile Bible-bashing ... :rolleyes:

</yawn>
Juvenile, okay...

I don't bash the bible.

Jacob stealing from his father, loyalty to Rebecca telling him to break multiple of God's laws, to steal the blessing that belongs to Esau. And then Jacob proceeding to get in a physical fight with an incarnation of god, and refusing to let go when he realizes it is God before him.

He receives the name " Israel " which means "contender with god". And he receives praise when the being says "you have fought with God and you have won".

I admire everything in the scriptures that promotes virtue, and I admire Cyrus the great who was a total idolater , who did not even know god, and yet God blessed him and even called him a messiah,


....and the Jews as a general consensus, accepted him as a messiah, he created independent israel, ended the Babylonian captivity, he created the temple for the jewish / Hebrew religion at odds with Babylonian Deities he praised (as king of Babylon Lucifer was one of his titles. He wore Venus, the 8 pointed morning star of Inanna, mother of harlots, Queen of heaven, whore of Babylon), he fulfilled many of the prophecies of what a messiah is supposed to do, that Jesus failed to fulfill (was a peacemaker and loved enemies better than Jesus christ.)

The name Cyrus means " sun", and in Joseph's vision of the sun disc, and the moon, and the stars, the sun disrepresented Jacob. The sun disc also represented the Egyptian sun god Ra, that Pharaoh was the chief mediator who stood in the place of.

The dreams that the Pharaoh was having, were dreams that would save the only superpower on earth and the surrounding Nations.

The Pharaoh found a Hebrew slave and , a convict from prison who could interpret his dreams, and put him in charge of all of his household and possessions, saying to everyone who went to pharaoh, "go to Joseph."

Pharaoh was theologically considered a pagan god,

...the best thing that happened to Joseph and the only superpower ( and all the surrounding Nations during time of famine,) was Joseph becoming a slave to a pagan god.

The pagan God was wanting to work with Joseph's god, and his dreams... combined with the interpreter, combined with grace + the kindness to put Joseph in charge of his household and all of his possessions ,

was an example of a pagan God and Yahweh working together to save the world.

I have absolutely no problem with the scriptures that are not bigoted. And every scripture that promotes virtue I love.

So am I really Bible bashing? Or am I maybe challenging a God who is so much greater than us, to have less excuse for being a serial killer.

Moses and Jacob would do so. . love demands it. ;)
 
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Father Heathen

Veteran Member
I just got done reading more of the Bible from a God who is love, and scripture says love is kind, love is not puffed up".

And yet, the God who is love says"I will harden pharaohs heart so he will stubbornly refuse, so the Pharaoh will not listen to you, so that I may crush Egypt with major disasters..." ExodusView attachment 87488

He then proceeds to turn the Nile into blood, glorify the stench of all the dead fish and animals that find their habitat uninhabitable.

The Egyptian mother's and their children are screaming in agony from the curses and plagues, which increase when Jehovah sends an angel of death door to door to kill the first born children and babies who do not have the blood of a virgin lamb smeared on their doorposts,

.. and as the frightened Israelites are lead out into the wilderness, worried if this killer of children was going to provide, or if maybe the Egyptians were more humane.....

(That is an extremely legitimate concern to have, ) ..and the response from God for the crime of mistrust, was to exterminate a far larger percentage of the Jews on earth than died in the Holocaust. Moses proved in scripture that he was more merciful and loving than God, by arguing with God about how terrible his plans for genocide against those he just got done claiming he loved and cherished.

(Jehovah was telling Moses to Leave him alone, because he was planning on going to exterminate more than 99% of the Jews on the planet...)

Exodus 32:14​

14 And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

So, if "God is love, love is kind, love is not puffed up," (God's word) then Moses and most humans are more Divine than the author of much of scripture.

The government of Yahweh was also never democracy, but absolute monarchy, absolute theocracy, free speech is suppressed, free religion is suppressed, and people are given the death penalty for adultery or crimes as ridiculous as working on Sabbath.

Today that form of government resembles radical extremist regimes such as ISIS.

I live in the the twin cities where there is a shrine at Golden valley humane society, to the first victim of Ted Bundy, (Elizabeth Potter Perry) who used to work there. On the anniversary of her death, in 2022, it was memorial day, May 30th, and I found a Saint Philomena cord on the sidewalk. (A very unlikely find any day of the year even in a Catholic church.)

Red and white stripes. The white stripes are for purity and chastity, the red for suffering, penance, carrying the cross, martyrdom, humiliation.

When I visited Golden valley humane society to place my palm on the plaque that honors her ( has her name and a memorial quote) a prayer for her soul, ask for her help, intercession, dealing with a neglectful father whose cruelty has created an extremely miserable, unsafe, unpredictable, disturbing world in my experience

...
i shortly after, received a text from someone in another state, who did not know I was visiting a shrine to petition and bless the soul of an innocent girl who got stabbed to death while off at college.

The text was about Saint Maria Gorretti getting stabbed 14 times, and praying that she could spend eternity with the monster (devil) who was doing that to an innocent girl who loved and cared about him.

She realized he was unloved, scared, tortured, and compassion made her most concerned about the most tortured individuals having to go before the wrathful God who says "better to have a millstone tied around your neck and you be tossed into the sea" than to do what her attacker was guilty of.

After death, as a ghost, she proceeded to descend into his cell, to offer the devil 14 Lillies (flowers representing purity) for the 14 times he stabbed her, and eternal friends, even in prison.

The monster turned into a fervent servant, preaching what happened, making sure his actions and example were a reflection of her miracle , sent many persistence letters to the Pope demanding her canonization as soon as possible, and trying to stir up as many people as possible to honor her and pray so that the necessary amount of miracles would get her canonized.

Jesus Christ himself could have appeared to this man and it would not have had that beauty and the beast type of effect. The kiss of Belle turned the cursed monster into a handsome princess The story goes.

Elizabeth Potter Perry has an additional middle name Ibby, which is an alternative for Isabel.

Isa means Jesus. Belle means Beauty/beautiful.

And I later discovered, she has the birthday of Saint Philomena, making the Philomena cord that I found anniversary of her death, that much more meaningful. Because that was not the day of her death, but it was truly her birthday.View attachment 87491
Elizabeth Ibby Perry, Isabel, pray for us sinners. Cousin of the virgin Mary, Elizabeth ....had a son named JohnView attachment 87496
View attachment 87492View attachment 87493View attachment 87494View attachment 87495


I think God should let those in favor of love, supplant his pride, his wrath, his narcissistic ways that reach serial killer proportions (like that time King David took a census that God didn't like, so he sent a pestilence that killed 70,000 of his people... Classic serial killer mentality to start killing random people who are not guilty of what someone did that is bothering you.)

Isabel, a state of purity, inoccence , deification of victim souls who prayed to Jesus that they could have the right husband and be a mother some day....but the God they trusted instead allowed them to lose their virginity to a rapist who proceeded to violently murder them....

....I think they deserve a special reward and justice for the father who could have effortlessly helped them, promising them they could trust him...

...a version of Jesus Christ that is not a serial killer , or promoting a father who is a serial killer. I pray that we can have that version of an innocent loving God. God made women in His image too. ;)

East of Eden, Scorpio Islands, virgin islands, somewhere east of God's kingdom, May there be a realm , where people can enjoy a God who is love, who does not kill children.

Scripture says "God is love", which means that there are many human beings who are more Divine than the author of many verses in the scriptures. Can you argue otherwise?
If god is love, then anything devoid of compassion cannot be of god. If god is infinitely wise, than anything devoid of reason cannot be of god. Scripture reflects the society that wrote it more so than it does any actual deity. The "god" contained therein is a projection/personification of their own collective egos.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
May I ask why you believe that this god exists? Has it ever occurred to you that these might be fictional stories written by arrogant, vengeful men who imagined a god who is just like them?
I believe it's very obvious that a lot of different spirits participated in the writing of that book with a lot of men as well.

In Japan, the word for ghost, angel, deity, spirit, tulpa, is "kami."

Any sentient supernatural force. I have a great amount of doubts in my heart regarding anything scripture says about an all knowing, compassionate, all powerful, benevolent, gracious, tender , merciful father willing the agony and mass killings and confusion that scripture attributes to him

I believe in spirits of love, and they are Divine in my opinion. I believe some of scripture was inspired by those spirits.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
If god is love, then anything devoid of compassion cannot be of god. If god is infinitely wise, than anything devoid of reason cannot be of god. Scripture reflects the society that wrote it more so than it does any actual deity. The "god" contained therein is a projection/personification of their own collective egos.
Reflection of an ancient time and society that was barbaric , no security anywhere, women dead on average before the age of 30 with child birth, labor pains being the main cause. So, believing the "eve offers forbidden fruit, labor pains multiplied", was a way they rationalized how much worse women had it.

it was reflection also, of how acceptable slavery, racism, and countless injustices or atrocities by contemporary American standards were back then in every empire or significantly powerful/advanced civilization worldwide that I can think of....

How much more acceptable where things like human sacrifice for certain blessings and graces as well....

They were simply times that it was common to witness what would be a total outrage or petrifying to the average contemporary American.

And so, scripture is a reflection of people trying to make sense of that, with a lot of ego , pride, narcissism,...(" us vs. them" attitudes), the joy of dehumanizing and triumphing over those of other religions, the uncircumcised...

Or human nature to condemn ourselves and attribute our sins to the disasters , or when misfortune/ disaster strikes, or we are taken into captivity by those who follow foreign Gods.

It was definitely a different time. Burning heretics or witches at the stake would also be very foreign to contemporary American christians.
 
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Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
The Pharaoh found a Hebrew slave and ex-convict from prison who could interpret his dreams

Good grief! What, exactly, is an "ex-convict from prison"?

Dang, @Spiderman, despite the best efforts of Donny Osmond you still manage to screw it up.

Let me help ...

Thereupon Pharaoh sent for Joseph, and he was rushed from the dungeon. He had his hair cut and changed his clothes, and he appeared before Pharaoh. [Genesis 41:14]

Pharaoh didn't find an "ex-convict from prison." He was told [by his chief cupbearer] of a current convict in his dungeon.

When Donny sings "Any Dream Will Do" he doesn't mean that you get to just say whatever comes to mind.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Good grief! What, exactly, is an "ex-convict from prison"?

Dang, @Spiderman, despite the best efforts of Donny Osmond you still manage to screw it up.

Let me help ...

Thereupon Pharaoh sent for Joseph, and he was rushed from the dungeon. He had his hair cut and changed his clothes, and he appeared before Pharaoh. [Genesis 41:14]

Pharaoh didn't find an "ex-convict from prison." He was told [by his chief cupbearer] of a current convict in his dungeon.

When Donny sings "Any Dream Will Do" he doesn't mean that you get to just say whatever comes to mind.
I repent if I misspoke and accept and appreciate your correction and patience.:):smilecat::thumbsup:...of course, by ex convict, I did mean, a person in the equivalent of prison at that time, a dungeon, found naked with an Egyptian woman, wife of Potiphar claiming attempted rape.

Although the scriptures declare his inoccence, that was not the idea behind putting him in a dungeon.

What I did mean to convey by those words is, Pharaoh did put an ex convict in control of his household and possessions, telling all who went to Pharaoh "go to Joseph".

I agree, you are correct. When Pharaoh first found him, he was a current convict incarcerated. Good catch. Cheers!:thumbsup::clapping:

Leah was sister Moon, Jacob was brother sun (The meaning of the name of the Messiah, the anointed one, the deliverer Cyrus) J:sunface::firstqmoonface::sparkles::praying: the stars were their children, bowing to Joseph
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"Listen," he said, "I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me." When he told his father as well as his brothers, his father rebuked him and said, "What is this dream you had? Will your mother and I and your brothers actually come and bow down to the ground before you?"(Genesis 37)
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Juvenile, okay...

I don't bash the bible.

Jacob stealing from his father, loyalty to Rebecca telling him to break multiple of God's laws, to steal the blessing that belongs to Esau. And then Jacob proceeding to get in a physical fight with an incarnation of god, and refusing to let go when he realizes it is God before him.

He receives the name " Israel " which means "contender with god". And he receives praise when the being says "you have fought with God and you have won".

I admire everything in the scriptures that promotes virtue, and I admire Cyrus the great who was a total idolater , who did not even know god, and yet God blessed him and even called him a messiah, and the Jews accepted him as a messiah, he created independent israel, he created the temple for the jews, he fulfilled many of the prophecies of what a messiah is supposed to do better than Jesus christ.

The name Cyrus means " sun", and in Joseph's vision of the sun disc, and the moon, and the stars, the sun disrepresented Jacob. The sun disc also represented the Egyptian sun god Ra, that Pharaoh was the chief mediator who stood in the place of.

The dreams that the Pharaoh was having, were dreams that would save the only superpower on earth and the surrounding Nations.

The Pharaoh found a Hebrew slave and ex-convict from prison who could interpret his dreams, and put him in charge of all of his household and possessions, saying to everyone who went to pharaoh, go to Joseph.

Pharaoh was theologically considered a pagan god,

...the best thing that happened to Joseph and the only superpower ( and all the surrounding Nations during time of famine,) was Joseph becoming a slave to a pagan god.

The pagan God was wanting to work with Joseph's god, and his dreams... combined with the interpreter, combined with grace + the kindness to put Joseph in charge of his household and all of his possessions ,

was an example of a pagan God and Yahweh working together to save the world.

I have absolutely no problem with the scriptures that are not bigoted. And every scripture that promotes virtue I love.

So am I really Bible bashing? Or am I maybe challenging a God who is so much greater than us, to have less excuse for being a serial killer.

Moses and Jacob would do so. . love demands it. ;)
I edited this post because I was talking into a phone that didn't properly transfer.

I said "Cyrus means son".

Not true, Cyrus means ":sunface: Sun"
 

1213

Well-Known Member
And yet, the God who is love says"I will harden pharaohs heart so he will stubbornly refuse, so the Pharaoh will not listen to you, so that I may crush Egypt with major disasters..." Exodus
I think it would be good to understand correctly what "hardening heart" meant. By what I see, it happened by demanding pharaoh to release the slaves. If you oppose the hardening of the heart, you are supporting slavery.
The government of Yahweh was also never democracy, but absolute monarchy, absolute theocracy, free speech is suppressed, free religion is suppressed, and people are given the death penalty for adultery or crimes as ridiculous as working on Sabbath.
It is interesting that originally people were meant to be free individuals. But, for some reason people are stupid and want governments to rule and oppress them, like Jews in here:

And they said to him, Behold, you have become old, and your sons have not walked in your ways. Now appoint a king to us, to judge us, like all the nations. And the thing was evil in Samuel's eyes when they said, Give to us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed to Jehovah. And Jehovah said to Samuel, Listen to the voice of the people, to all that they say to you. For they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me from reigning over them. According to all the works that they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt, even to this day, when they forsook Me and served other gods, so they are also doing to you. And now listen to their voice. Only, you shall surely protest to them, and shall declare to them the privilege of the king who shall reign over them. And Samuel spoke all Jehovah's words to the people who were asking a king from him. And he said, This is the privilege of the king who shall reign over you. He shall take your sons and shall appoint them for himself among his chariots, and among his horsemen. And they shall run before his chariots. And he will appoint for himself heads of thousands, and heads of fifties; and to plow his plowing, and to reap his reaping; and to make weapons for war for him, and weapons for his charioteer. And he will take your daughters for perfumers, and for cooks, and for bakers. And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your olive-yards, the best; and give them to his servants. And he will tithe your seed and your vineyards, and will give them to his eunuchs and to his servants. And he will take your male slaves and your slave-girls, and the best of your young men, and your asses, and will use them for his own work. He will tithe your flock, and you will be servants to him. And you will cry out in that day because of your king whom you have chosen for yourselves. And Jehovah will not answer you in that day. And the people refused to listen to the voice of Samuel, and said, No, but a king shall be over us. And we shall be, even we, like all the nations. And our king shall judge us and shall go out before us and fight our battles.
1 Sam. 8:5-20

Governments bring only harm. And "democracy" is probably the worst, because instead of one dictator people get several small dictators and no power to change the course for better. As anyone who follows what is happening in this world, it is the "democracy" that is now suppressing all freedoms humans have, especially freedom of speech, because it is always the biggest threat for tyrants.

Scripture says "God is love", which means that there are many human beings who are more Divine than the author of many verses in the scriptures. Can you argue otherwise?

By what I see, there is no human that I would call divine or more loving than Bible God.
 

Treasure Hunter

Well-Known Member
The "god" contained therein is a projection/personification of their own collective egos.
More like a projection of their own collective conscience. A relationship with the conscience is a two way relationship, meaning the conscience guides you but you also must guide your conscience.

Since the conscience is not perfect from the beginning, don’t expect God to be perfect from the beginning. Perfection is the promise.

Can you be in relationship with an imperfect version of God, even a monstrous version? If you can’t, it’s probably because your conscience doesn’t want you to view it as imperfect. It would rather you live in your head and rationalize everything. However, disconnecting from your conscience is not how you relate to and guide your conscience.

Moral progress, or meaning seeking, can only happen through the conscience, not through the rational intellect.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
If god is love, then anything devoid of compassion cannot be of god. If god is infinitely wise, than anything devoid of reason cannot be of god. Scripture reflects the society that wrote it more so than it does any actual deity. The "god" contained therein is a projection/personification of their own collective egos.
I believe since you are not compassionate or wise then you are not able to judge God.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Good grief! What, exactly, is an "ex-convict from prison"?

Dang, @Spiderman, despite the best efforts of Donny Osmond you still manage to screw it up.

Let me help ...

Thereupon Pharaoh sent for Joseph, and he was rushed from the dungeon. He had his hair cut and changed his clothes, and he appeared before Pharaoh. [Genesis 41:14]

Pharaoh didn't find an "ex-convict from prison." He was told [by his chief cupbearer] of a current convict in his dungeon.

When Donny sings "Any Dream Will Do" he doesn't mean that you get to just say whatever comes to mind.
I believe saying anything that comes into mind happens a lot and it doesn't have to make sense. However I believe the concept came first and the Bible is only used to confirm it.
 
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