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Yeshua vs the Pharisees (round 3)

Simplelogic

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
The Pharisees and some of the scribes gathered around Him when they had come from Jerusalem, 2*and had seen that some of His disciples were eating their bread with impure hands, that is, unwashed. 3*(For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they carefully wash their hands, thus observing the traditions of the elders; 4*and when they come from the market place, they do not eat unless they cleanse themselves; and there are many other things which they have received in order to observe, such as the washing of cups and pitchers and copper pots.) 5*The Pharisees and the scribes *asked Him, “Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat their bread with impure hands?” Mark 7

Yeshua's response absolutely crushes the oral Torah:

Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9*He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10*For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11*but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12*you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13*thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.” Mark 7: 9-13

Torah references in red

Oral law references in blue

Round 3 goes to Yeshua and the Law of Moses!

BTW. Yeshua is upholding the stoning commandment. Uh oh!
 
Simplelogic

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
sojourner said:
Of course you do -- ignoring all credible scholastic opinion.


:biglaugh: :ignore:
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I guess by "scholastic" you mean you?? You have already discredited James Tabor. Hey…...lets look at the credentials real quick:

First, lets present Mr. Sojourner's accomplishments:






Now lets look at James Tabors:

Dr. James Tabor is Professor of the Department of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte of Christian origins and ancient Judaism. He has his B.A. in Greek from Abilene Christian University (1966), his M.A. in Religion from Pepperdine University (1971), and an M.A. and Ph.D. in the History of Ancient Mediterranean Religions in the Humanities Division of the University of Chicago (1974, 1981). Tabor has combined his work on ancient texts with extensive field work in archaeology in Israel and Jordan, including work at Qumran, Sepphoris, Masada, and Wadi el-Yabis in Jordan. Over the past decade he has teamed up with with Shimon Gibson to excavate the “John the Baptist” cave at Suba, the “Tomb of the Shroud” discovered in 2000, and ongoing work at Mt Zion. Most recently, Tabor, along with Rami Arav, have been involved in the re-exploration of two tombs in East Talpiot; the controversial “Jesus tomb” and a related tomb less than 200 feet away that has ossuary inscriptions Tabor and Arav interpret as Judaeo-Christian.

Please Sojourner, convince me why your opinion should be held higher then Tabor's…..
 
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outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
Richard Wightman Fox, professor of history, the University of Southern California, writing in Slate (April 2006) said, "Ultimately Tabor leaves the reader confused about whether he thinks the Jesus dynasty is a historical fact or merely an intriguing conjecture" and that "Tabor seems stuck in an endless loop, squinting across the sands of time as much as the terrain of Galilee and Judea, holding out for some imagined "real" contact with the historical Jesus"

Darrell Bock, professor of New Testament studies at Dallas Theological Seminary, writing for Christianity Today (May 2006) has said "Four major historical problems exist with Tabor's portrait beyond the mere worldview issues that drive his portrait. "

Bert Jan Lietaert Peerbolte from the Theological University of Kampen writing in the Society of Biblical Literature Review of Biblical Literature (June 2007) was highly critical of the book saying, "Some books are written to spread knowledge, others to generate controversy. This book falls into the latter category. In his Jesus Dynasty James Tabor presents a reconstruction of the Jesus movement from a perspective that purports to be a neutral view at the facts. Unfortunately, Tabor’s view is not neutral and his “facts” are not facts." [8]
 
Simplelogic

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
outhouse said:
Richard Wightman Fox, professor of history, the University of Southern California, writing in Slate (April 2006) said, "Ultimately Tabor leaves the reader confused about whether he thinks the Jesus dynasty is a historical fact or merely an intriguing conjecture" and that "Tabor seems stuck in an endless loop, squinting across the sands of time as much as the terrain of Galilee and Judea, holding out for some imagined "real" contact with the historical Jesus"

Darrell Bock, professor of New Testament studies at Dallas Theological Seminary, writing for Christianity Today (May 2006) has said "Four major historical problems exist with Tabor's portrait beyond the mere worldview issues that drive his portrait. "

Bert Jan Lietaert Peerbolte from the Theological University of Kampen writing in the Society of Biblical Literature Review of Biblical Literature (June 2007) was highly critical of the book saying, "Some books are written to spread knowledge, others to generate controversy. This book falls into the latter category. In his Jesus Dynasty James Tabor presents a reconstruction of the Jesus movement from a perspective that purports to be a neutral view at the facts. Unfortunately, Tabor’s view is not neutral and his “facts” are not facts." [8]
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Not sure the point here. Every scholar is critiqued. It doesn't do anything to establish YOUR credibility. You posted nothing which pertained to Tabor's argument on the Essenes so…..
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Simplelogic said:
Not sure the point here. Every scholar is critiqued. It doesn't do anything to establish YOUR credibility. You posted nothing which pertained to Tabor's argument on the Essenes so…..
Click to expand...
Tabor isn't particularly well-respected in scholastic circles.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Simplelogic said:
I guess by "scholastic" you mean you?? You have already discredited James Tabor. Hey…...lets look at the credentials real quick:

First, lets present Mr. Sojourner's accomplishments:






Now lets look at James Tabors:

Dr. James Tabor is Professor of the Department of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte of Christian origins and ancient Judaism. He has his B.A. in Greek from Abilene Christian University (1966), his M.A. in Religion from Pepperdine University (1971), and an M.A. and Ph.D. in the History of Ancient Mediterranean Religions in the Humanities Division of the University of Chicago (1974, 1981). Tabor has combined his work on ancient texts with extensive field work in archaeology in Israel and Jordan, including work at Qumran, Sepphoris, Masada, and Wadi el-Yabis in Jordan. Over the past decade he has teamed up with with Shimon Gibson to excavate the “John the Baptist” cave at Suba, the “Tomb of the Shroud” discovered in 2000, and ongoing work at Mt Zion. Most recently, Tabor, along with Rami Arav, have been involved in the re-exploration of two tombs in East Talpiot; the controversial “Jesus tomb” and a related tomb less than 200 feet away that has ossuary inscriptions Tabor and Arav interpret as Judaeo-Christian.

Please Sojourner, convince me why your opinion should be held higher then Tabor's…..
Click to expand...
Nah. I have too much respect for scholarship to count myself a "scholar." I've got a graduate degree, I've done my share of research and exegesis, I've been invited to publish, but I have not done so. I know a lot, but I'm not a scholar. People like Matthews, Smith, Rhoads, Scott, Kloppenborg, Lowery -- they're scholars.
 
Simplelogic

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
sojourner said:
Nah. I have too much respect for scholarship to count myself a "scholar." I've got a graduate degree, I've done my share of research and exegesis, I've been invited to publish, but I have not done so. I know a lot, but I'm not a scholar. People like Matthews, Smith, Rhoads, Scott, Kloppenborg, Lowery -- they're scholars.
Click to expand...

Yes, I can tell you have deep respect for scholarship. A little false humility me thinks?
 
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