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Yet another Christmas question thread.

Draka

Wonder Woman
With all the threads about Christmas and such going on now it has inspired me to ask something. For those non-Christians who do not celebrate Christmas, how do you explain Santa Claus?

I know that Santa Claus is in no way really connected to the religious connotations of Christmas...but it is connected. All over TV and childrens books is the tale of Santa Claus bringing good boys and girls presents on Christmas Eve. Now my question is, what do you tell your children who see this plastered on every channel every day when they ask why Santa doesn't bring them presents? Or why you don't celebrate Christmas so they can get presents from Santa?
 

Evenstar

The Wicked Christian
I can remember the JWs once telling me, you can give presents all year round to your kids. Which is a fair point.
My thoughts were : what happens when they go back to school, and the other kids ask " what did santa bring you? " He dont come to our house.​
So this is an interesting question.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
I think the proper thing to do with children, in this case, is to study the origins of Santa Claus. Find out how he became what he is today. Study the story of St. Nicholas. He was a real person from what I remember. He visited hospitals and gave out candy and smiles to those who were sick. This is the story that I remember. It may not be accurate. The modern Santa Clause that we know was made up by a department store to sell more goods. It was a maeketing scheme to get us to buy more stuff.

Tell your kids the truth about Santa Clause. He is a mythe based on a factual person. A real kind and generous person. Study the origins with them. Let them see him for what he really is. Make sure they know that the Santa Clause of today is not a real person but he is based on a real person. They will thank you for your honesty.

Search out the origins of Santa Clause on the internet. This is a really fun thing to do.

Have your children do good things for others as St. Nicholas did. Instead of your children asking for gifts, have them pick out a gift and give it away to a needy child or family. Or just visit an elderly loved one or a sick relative. Christmas should be about doing things for others not for ourselves. I did this one year and it was a very meaningful experience. Gifts given to others will last longer than gifts given to ourselves.
 

Feathers in Hair

World's Tallest Hobbit
If I have kids, I don't think I'll lead them to believe the "Santa-thing", except his origins as a figure throughout history and what he represents.

As a pagan, I percieve him as a kind of god of winter- or rather, that winter will be over and that warmth will come again.
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
Faith, I'm sorry, but I totally disagree. My kids hold the fantasy of Santa delivering presents on a sled. Imagination is a wonderful thing. It expands the mind. Let them believe in Santa. Let them believe in Peter Pan. Let them believe in the tooth fairy. Let a child's imagination grow without bounderies.
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
Faith_is_an_assurance said:
I think the proper thing to do with children, in this case, is to study the origins of Santa Claus. Find out how he became what he is today. Study the story of St. Nicholas. He was a real person from what I remember. He visited hospitals and gave out candy and smiles to those who were sick. This is the story that I remember. It may not be accurate. The modern Santa Clause that we know was made up by a department store to sell more goods. It was a maeketing scheme to get us to buy more stuff.

Tell your kids the truth about Santa Clause. He is a mythe based on a factual person. A real kind and generous person. Study the origins with them. Let them see him for what he really is. Make sure they know that the Santa Clause of today is not a real person but he is based on a real person. They will thank you for your honesty.
Nice sentiment, but hard to do when you are talking about a 2,3 or 4 year old. Also, my parents celebrate Christmas and I celebrate Yule. My mother is big into the whole Santa thing and I'm not. While if I tell her not to do the Santa gift thing for my kids when they go to her house then I would have to explain why they aren't "good enough" to get Santa presents on Christmas. If they do get Santa presents then they might wonder why they don't get them on Yule, which is what we celebrate in my home.

I'm just wondering what others have done here. Be you Jewish, Buddist, Wiccan, Native American, or general Pagan...what do you do in your home around the Christmas season with your children? Christmas is so advertised everywhere...what do you say to your children about it all?
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
Draka, that's a hard question. Could you get them all just one present each and say it's from Santa? It doesn't need to be a Christian thing.
 

Feathers in Hair

World's Tallest Hobbit
jgallandt said:
Faith, I'm sorry, but I totally disagree. My kids hold the fantasy of Santa delivering presents on a sled. Imagination is a wonderful thing. It expands the mind. Let them believe in Santa. Let them believe in Peter Pan. Let them believe in the tooth fairy. Let a child's imagination grow without bounderies.
Because my imagination is very important to me, I'd usually agree completely with this. However, some kids, when they learn the truth, can be affected even to the point of saying 'well, if this person doesn't exist, does anything else I believe in exist?'

Maybe a good way of approaching it would be telling the child 'some people believe this and others believe this. Believe what you wish."
 

Aqualung

Tasty
FeathersinHair said:
Because my imagination is very important to me, I'd usually agree completely with this. However, some kids, when they learn the truth, can be affected even to the point of saying 'well, if this person doesn't exist, does anything else I believe in exist?'

Maybe a good way of approaching it would be telling the child 'some people believe this and others believe this. Believe what you wish."
No, I think it's a huge point for growth for a child to learn that santa might not be real. And if they start questioning the reality of stuff, good for them! Then they can do some research into weird sciency stuff like string theory and stuff. It's good to question, and kids can grow a lot when they have to give up something like santa.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
jgallandt said:
Faith, I'm sorry, but I totally disagree. My kids hold the fantasy of Santa delivering presents on a sled. Imagination is a wonderful thing. It expands the mind. Let them believe in Santa. Let them believe in Peter Pan. Let them believe in the tooth fairy. Let a child's imagination grow without bounderies.
Why give Santa all the credit for all those gifts you give your children. Let them know who is really behind all those good things you give them. Make them smile at you not Santa.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
You know I got all the way to 3rd grade before someone in my 3rd grade class broke the news to me that Santa was not real. Boy, did my parents have a lot of explaining to do.:D
 

Aqualung

Tasty
FFH said:
You know I got all the way to 3rd grade before someone in my 3rd grade class broke the news to me that Santa was not real. Boy, did my parents have a lot of explaining to do.:D
I'm certain I got a lot further than that. I don't remember how far, but it was pretty far. :bonk:
 

FFH

Veteran Member
FeathersinHair said:
some kids, when they learn the truth, can be affected even to the point of saying 'well, if this person doesn't exist, does anything else I believe in exist?'
I agree with this.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
You know I am 39 and may never have kids in this life. I don't really know what I would do about the whole Santa thing. This is a really good thread. I am a Christian and me and my wife did not want to do the Santa thing with our kids, if we had them, and I know a family that is Christian that did not do the Santa thing, They gave gifts to each other and focused on the story of Jesus' birth. One of the kids is my friend and he is the one that said to me how grateful he was to his parents for not doing the whole Santa thing. He is extremely smart and was at the top of his class in everything he did. He said "look at me I turned out great and was not harmed by not participating in the traditions of the world".

I think everyone should focus on what they believe at this time of year and do away with the whole Santa thing. Focus on your individual beliefs. What's wrong with just giving gifts to your kids with your name on the gift instead of Santa's. It will mean more to them.
 

Pussyfoot Mouse

Super Mom
I've told my children that as long as they believe in "Santa", they will receive presents from "Santa".
My seventeen year old daughter still believes in "Santa". :D
 

robtex

Veteran Member
Draka said:
With all the threads about Christmas and such going on now it has inspired me to ask something. For those non-Christians who do not celebrate Christmas, how do you explain Santa Claus?

I know that Santa Claus is in no way really connected to the religious connotations of Christmas...but it is connected. All over TV and childrens books is the tale of Santa Claus bringing good boys and girls presents on Christmas Eve. Now my question is, what do you tell your children who see this plastered on every channel every day when they ask why Santa doesn't bring them presents? Or why you don't celebrate Christmas so they can get presents from Santa?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas
:D
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
robtex said:
Interesting, December 5th huh? Still, doesn't quite solve my problem:D .

The thing is...you can't hide the story of Santa Claus from your children unless you sequester them completely. No TV, no radio, no going outside the house. Come December all you see is that fat man in red.

I think I will tell my mother no Santa. I'll take the rest as it comes. I just don't want to start out with confusion.
 

s2a

Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator
FeathersinHair said:

Because my imagination is very important to me, I'd usually agree completely with this. However, some kids, when they learn the truth, can be affected even to the point of saying 'well, if this person doesn't exist, does anything else I believe in exist?'

Maybe a good way of approaching it would be telling the child 'some people believe this and others believe this. Believe what you wish."
I think there's a distinct difference between allowing a child a choice in what to believe (Santa or no Santa), versus a parent's mandating what a child must believe and accept to be true (religion).

I concur that imagination is not only important, but verily essential to a child's emotional and intellectual development. But let's not confuse a furtive and healthy imagination with suggestions that one mythological/superstitious "belief" may be "just as good", or of equally merited acceptance as any another "belief".

One of the fundamental aspects of imagination is the capacity to question the status quo - to poke and prod at it's underlying rationales of widespread acceptance. Intellectual curiosity is just as important to healthy child development as any good fairy tale in transporting the mind and imagination "outside of the box".

I should think that a child's first reaction to revelations regarding the Santa myth, would not be to question the legitimacy of other claimed existence...but instead to question the veracity of any claims of "truth" made by parents.

I recall way back in second grade math class that my teacher consistently declared, "There's no such thing as negative numbers". I was taught that only whole, positive integers, inhabited the world of mathematics. And wouldn't you know it? The very first coursework of study in third grade was an introduction to fractions and negative numbers!!! What!?! Imagine the outrage! Just a few months earlier, I willingly accepted the notion that such things did not, and could not exist!

Needless to say, I had been...misinformed. Intentionally. Purposefully. I recall my feelings of anger and frustration in confronting the manifest betrayals of trust and truth. I remember quite clearly that I did not question whether what I had learned the previous year was true (indeed, 2+2 still equalled 4); but I was skeptical from that point forward regading any claims from any succeeding math teachers of "absolutes" put forward for me to blindly accept as "true". The eventual lesson learned was not to inherently question the mathematics itself, but rather the veracity of my prospectively prevaricating teachers.

[Note: I suspect, but can not substantiate with any concrete data, that one of the primary motivations for young adults to reject religious teachings/claims from their parental upbringing...is simple rebellion against anything that their parents may believe,claim, and insist to be true. After all, parents are the most influential storytellers and willful deceivers children will ever personally know. Kids are always smarter than adults are willing to credit them, and they see (and intuitively feel more) than most adults would comfortably care to acknowledge.

If you can't trust parents to tell the truth...well then...you're just going to have to discover whatever that "truth" may be on your own.

I also suspect (but can not document) the similar notion - that the primary reason Christian evangelicals and Biblical literalists insist that "Intelligent Design"/"Creation Theory(ies)" be taught in science class is for similar reasons. Empirical evidence supports the validity of Evolution, and God is not requisite to the process. Parents don't want to be made out (yet again) to be deceivers/fools in the eyes of their rebellious and free-thinking kids...so schools and teachers must help them save face and at least "suggest" that "some people believe this and others believe this. Believe what you wish." In terms of mythology/superstition/spiritualism/religion...fine. But when it comes to empirical facts and conscientious adherence to scientific methodology? Well...a false choice is no choice at all.]

Sheesh. Did I write all that?

Time for a cocktail, methinks. ;-)
 

s2a

Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator
Aqualung said:

No, I think it's a huge point for growth for a child to learn that santa might not be real. And if they start questioning the reality of stuff, good for them! Then they can do some research into weird sciency stuff like string theory and stuff. It's good to question, and kids can grow a lot when they have to give up something like santa.
Agreed. I "believed" in Santa, then at some point (early on)...I didn't. I can report that it certainly hasn't hurt me none since. ;-)

In fact, it's "revelations" like these that birth skeptics and critical thinkers (well, sometimes).

I'm reminded of the anecdote/allegory that one of my favored comic/satirists, Bill Maher, has past recounted...

He notes that he was raised a Catholic, in a strict Catholic household (he's currently an agnostic). When he was young, he had his tooth cavities filled at the dentist with mercury (yes, that incredibly toxic substance). He notes that he could have left his fillings intact into his later adulthood, uneasy in the knowledge of the toxic metal still resident in his teeth. While the fillings were meant to be permanent, they didn't have to be, because now there were non-toxic fillers available as replacement, and...he could now make that choice/decision for himself. He chose to have the mercury fillings removed and replaced.

The moral of his story? Just because something is drilled into you at an early age without your consent - it doesn't mean you can't have it drilled back out, and replace it with something more sensible later in life. You don't have to accept from childhood, what you have the choice to change for yourself in adulthood. You can in fact, question the conventional wisdom of days gone past, and - *gasp* - the wisdom of your parent's choices as well...regardless of initial tool or implement employed to instill permanent "beliefs".
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
I have kids ages 26, 24, 11, 7, and 5. The 2 smallest still believe in Santa. To watch their faces as the tv stations track Santa on Christmas eve... priceless. And that naughty or nice thing is a great way to get them to behave in Dec. !
Let a child's imagination run wild. Remember, at one time, flight was thought to be impossible. So was space exploration. But by dreaming the impossible makes all things possible. Don't put bounderies on a child's imagination.​
 
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