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Yips or Oiks?

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
‘It’s out of order’: Gen Z speak up for cancel culture and ‘young illiberal progressives’

Generation Z has a bad case of the “yips”, according to a new label being applied to a swathe of 13- to 24-year-olds. Close to half of those surveyed from that age range, branded young illiberal progressives (yips), think some people deserve to be “cancelled”, compared with a third of over-25s, and more than a quarter say they have “very little tolerance for people with beliefs I disagree with”, new research by Channel 4 shows. Yet at the same time, the study found they are significantly more progressive than older generations on issues such as gender and multiculturalism.

Not surprising, given that so many other such generations think/thought they have/had the solutions to society and/or all world problems, even though they haven't lived long enough to gain from any experiences they might have, or as to assessing history and what often drives change. And how about Oiks too - Old Illiberal K**** - weren't we just as bad? :oops:

Attempts to understand them are gathering pace as they head into adulthood and become more powerful consumers and start to vote. Separate research earlier this year found 60% of 18- to 24-year-olds agree that having a strong leader who does not have to bother with parliament or elections is a good way to run the country, more than double the number in 2017.

Geez, hardly looking good for the future. :oops: Perhaps they would like Putin, or some nice theocracy to run the country - plenty no doubt offering. And did they not notice, given the restrictions on news and all such, that this might get them to Big Brother world sooner than later, given that 'strong leader' often results in Putins, Hitlers, and all the rest - and often with their issues over gender and related. :oops:

The paradox between tolerance and the urge to “cancel” may be “mystifying”, said Alex Mahon, the chief executive of Channel 4, as she unveiled the broadcaster’s analysis of “the most misjudged group of people in our recent history”. But, she said, it was likely to be “a completely rational response to the online world we have”. “Young people could be said to be less liberal because they are less tolerant of the views of others than their parents and grandparents – surely a novelty,” she said. When asked about the findings, Holly Valler, 18, told the Guardian: “Cancel culture has become something where you use it for everything. We just cancel people for the sake of wanting [to set] a trend going and to have some drama.” “I am seeing people cancelled for things they did when they were 15 years old,” said Ruben Otakoya, 19. “It’s out of order.” Georgia, 22, added: “People my age have been subconsciously pushed into a box where they think that the only way to share their opinion is by convincing other people that their opinion is the only correct way … They are confident … because now you can Google something and have facts that back up your opinion … I don’t necessarily blame our generation for being illiberal. I almost blame the environment that we’re in that has caused us to be so confirmed in our thoughts.”

As some have posited, perhaps they are so enclosed in their social media bubbles (and not looking elsewhere so much for information/knowledge) they fail to appreciate that they just don't have all the answers, even if they think they do.

The study of more than 1,500 people also revealed a generational gulf between how stressed Gen Z is about social media and the risks perceived by older people. It found Instagram, TikTok and other channels were not even in the top five stated sources of stress. Those were concerns held by generations for centuries: the cost of living, a lack of affordable housing, uncertainty about the future, pressure to be successful and worries about their appearance.

Just too obsessed with social media so as not to notice?

Well over half (58%) think older generations worry too much and exaggerate the effects of social media. Just over a third of Gen Z view social media as a source of stress, while more than half say the positives outweigh the negatives. A fifth have paused social media use to protect their mental health and one in nine have given it up permanently. In a sign of continuing evolving norms, Amelia Sumner, 24, told the Guardian she was now worried about a young family member posting sexually suggestive videos to TikTok and Otakoya said he was concerned to see a young family member posting a twerking film.

Well, children being involved in illegal imagery has risen enormously ever since the internet arrived, and subsequently when social media took over, and this was never much possible in previous generations until the technology arrived to enable such.

The study also found high levels of “little picture” hope, with 60% optimistic about their futures and a similar number feeling empowered to influence that future, while only a third were optimistic about the future of the world. Prof Bobby Duffy, the director of the Policy Institute at King’s College London, questioned whether Gen Z would remain illiberal as it aged. “You do have greater certainty that your worldview is correct [when young],” he said. “And then it gets more complex and nuanced as you get older. So there’s likely to be a lifecycle element to that.” He added: “It is a different environment that young people are living in, where the type of responses that you can get given through social media to sharing people’s views, and then the reactions to that … just provides a very different context. Whether this is a truly illiberal generation I think is unclear, but it is worth watching.”

They certainly do look rather different than many other generations, even if they are just the same, and perhaps more like living in a religious bubble even if they do tend to be less religious? :oops:

Speaking for myself, I'm not too happy with the cancel culture either - unless we are talking about Trump or Putin. :D
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
An important thing to note here is how the poll defines "canceling" someone. Some people use this word to refer to merely facing consequences for their words and actions, such as having their ties cut with an organization or being denied space on the platform of a private entity. This is different from state-level chastisement.

Also, the idea that tolerance per se is the default liberal position seems to me highly deprived of context and nuance. People don't have to tolerate a nazi, Stalinist, or fascist in their personal life. Whether they choose to or not is their prerogative; it has no bearing on whether they're "liberal" or "illiberal." Actually, in many situations, I would consider it more liberal to refuse to tolerate nazism, for example, than to tolerate it. If someone has to work in a professional capacity with another person whose views they find deeply unethical and harmful, for example, they will only have to tolerate the other person in that context, not generally.

Social and cultural trends don't develop in a vacuum. When younger people increasingly grow weary of specific beliefs and have no desire to lend them space when they're not obligated to, I think it's more useful and reasonable to ask why and address the causes than demonize them as some illiberal wannabe Putins. This is a generation facing an existential threat in the form of theocratic legislation (e.g., abortion bans and anti-LGBT laws). This is a generation that includes a subset who have witnessed loss, disease, and trauma because a subset of society decided that "freedom of speech" meant they should recklessly dismiss medical advice even when doing so demonstrably put others at risk.

And now, on top of these other social and legal ills, climate change denial and its consequences also add to the list of issues that the younger generation have to grapple with, all while being branded as "bratty," "entitled," or "authoritarian" by people who refuse to understand them or even entertain the idea that maybe some deep-rooted traditions and beliefs are indeed flawed, harmful, and in dire need of reform.

If "liberalism" has become synonymous with such lack of nuance and understanding, then "liberalism" be damned. I will instead throw in my lot with a useful, empathetic, and reasonable approach every single time, any day of the week.
 
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VoidCat

Use any and all pronouns including neo and it/it's
And now, on top of these other social and legal ills, climate change denial and its consequences also add to the list of issues that the younger generation have to grapple with, all while being branded as "bratty," "entitled," or "authoritarian" by people who refuse to understand them or even entertain the idea that maybe some deep-rooted traditions and beliefs are indeed flawed, harmful, and in dire need of reform
I'm gen Z.
My generation is ****ing depressed. And everyone older then us dismisses it and complains about us but dont realize just how much stress my generation is under.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm gen Z.
My generation is ****ing depressed. And everyone older then us dismisses it and complains about us but dont realize just how much stress my generation is under.

I know. I was born right at the edge of Gen Z, myself (and some even consider my birth year to be the start of that generation) and have a lot of friends within that age range. Excessive glorification of traditional ways of thinking and the "good old days" seems to be one of the things that frequently lead to this kind of dismissal and misunderstanding.
 

VoidCat

Use any and all pronouns including neo and it/it's
I know. I was born right at the edge of Gen Z, myself (and some even consider my birth year to be the start of that generation) and have a lot of friends within that age range. Excessive glorification of traditional ways of thinking and the "good old days" seems to be one of the things that frequently lead to this kind of dismissal and misunderstanding.
You are much younger then I thought. For some reason i assumed you to be like in your 30s. I agree it does seem to be glorifying the good old days that leads to that kind of misunderstanding. Also misunderstanding mental health and such and thinking younger people can't get depressed
 

Alien826

No religious beliefs
I'm old. Really old. But I still get depressed (not clinically) over the state of the world. To me it's like a lot of people standing on the deck of a sinking ship and arguing loudly about who has the best seats at dinner. My main comfort is that I probably won't live to see the worst of it. (Though I am in good health and climate change seems to be accelerating).

It's a terrible shame really. Such a beautiful world. And we stupid humans haven't even had the sense to look after it while pursuing our petty squabbles. Even birds have the sense not to sh*t in their own nests. And it's not that we lack the ability to know what's going on. It's a rare person that doesn't know that when the rain is coming in through a hole in his roof he needs to fix it before getting on with less pressing problems.

Listen up everyone! The world itself is in danger of becoming uninhabitable! You can fix all the other problems later, but if you don't do something about that first none of those things will matter!

Eh, why do I bother?
 

Secret Chief

Veteran Member
I'm old. Really old. But I still get depressed (not clinically) over the state of the world. To me it's like a lot of people standing on the deck of a sinking ship and arguing loudly about who has the best seats at dinner. My main comfort is that I probably won't live to see the worst of it. (Though I am in good health and climate change seems to be accelerating).

It's a terrible shame really. Such a beautiful world. And we stupid humans haven't even had the sense to look after it while pursuing our petty squabbles. Even birds have the sense not to sh*t in their own nests. And it's not that we lack the ability to know what's going on. It's a rare person that doesn't know that when the rain is coming in through a hole in his roof he needs to fix it before getting on with less pressing problems.

Listen up everyone! The world itself is in danger of becoming uninhabitable! You can fix all the other problems later, but if you don't do something about that first none of those things will matter!

Eh, why do I bother?
Dunno.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
I'm gen Z.
My generation is ****ing depressed. And everyone older then us dismisses it and complains about us but dont realize just how much stress my generation is under.
Perhaps those older don't understand such stress, but they did have an equivalent when the USSR and the USA had missiles targeted at each other for decades, and where we did come close a few times as to them being fired - as a recent thread pointed out.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
I'm old. Really old. But I still get depressed (not clinically) over the state of the world. To me it's like a lot of people standing on the deck of a sinking ship and arguing loudly about who has the best seats at dinner. My main comfort is that I probably won't live to see the worst of it. (Though I am in good health and climate change seems to be accelerating).

It's a terrible shame really. Such a beautiful world. And we stupid humans haven't even had the sense to look after it while pursuing our petty squabbles. Even birds have the sense not to sh*t in their own nests. And it's not that we lack the ability to know what's going on. It's a rare person that doesn't know that when the rain is coming in through a hole in his roof he needs to fix it before getting on with less pressing problems.

Listen up everyone! The world itself is in danger of becoming uninhabitable! You can fix all the other problems later, but if you don't do something about that first none of those things will matter!

Eh, why do I bother?
Are you psychic? How did you know about my leaking roof? :oops:
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
We aliens keep a watch on the Earth from our undetectable orbiting satellite. You need to get that fixed or you'll have more problems. No charge for the information.
People are on the job, but not on the roof yet. :oops:
 
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