You Can't Argue Against God

[Nakosis]

Wind is a produce of matter. If you worship a produce of something, you have to also worship the thing that produced it by default because it's the maker of your God. So you will end up with an infinite regression now.

Not the way God works for me.

 

[F1fan]

Why would I argue against such a thing


You needed to go back and correct your original snark .. as you move through the post however, you do seem gain some semblance of understanging but then drift into fallacy .. "Who claimed to know a God " ? and who is the confused one .. trapped in some fictitious belief ?

Do you not understand the Philosopher song ? ... the interphase between you and reality is what ? ..and who / what is it that you are interphasing with ... and WTF is God friend ? .. what part of .. Need to define your term .. did we miss along the way .. such that we can have an agreed upon point of reverence to achieve any coherence..

These are a set of sentence fragments that aren't coherent.

You say .. "You claimed to know Gods" .. i claimed no such thing .. a function of your misunderstanding of what came after.

Then figure out what you believe and state it in coherent sentences using proper punctuation.

What are you defining as God .. such that I may know what it is you are accusing me of knowing .. ?

I don't define Gods. It's others who believe in Gods, and it's up to them to explain what they believe.

You want to know how humans interact with the universe .. "Converse" with the universe .. converseing with everything ..

Converse means "to talk". We can't talk to things that don't speak, have language, or not sentient. You can talk to trees, but it will not be a conversation.

of which God presumably is a part ..

No Gods are known to exist.

but who knows until you define what your God is.. your missing the boat on that requirement Brother FFan which-out which you can not cross the existential fallacy and enter reality.

I have no God.

If you do then define it.

Define what you mean by "God" .. give an example of a God like Power ..

I don't have any God to define, as I have explained. Where is your definition? Being evasive?

and explain to me the interaction between you and the universe .. known in a punny way as the "I AM" moment .. .. the greatest achievement of Philosophy .. telling us the only thing we know for sure ! Row Row Row the boat .. Gently down the stream .. Convince me that this is not all just a computer similation .. some fancy vacaction .. where everything is real .. LOL . fancy vacation after which we have re -incarnation ..

More incoherent ramblings.

What part of "Define God" have you forgotten already .. ??

The part where you defined your God. Oh wait, you haven't yet.

 

[F1fan]

Not the way God works for me.

Why would how God works be up to you?

 

[PearlSeeker]

If you are not going to rely on your personal experience, then what are you going to rely on? Someone else's personal experience?

Both. Universal experience. That's why we can have language and communication.

 

[firedragon]

Not the way God works for me.

Why not? That's not reason. Just an assertion. It's like some who hate God.

Again, Wind is a produce of matter. If you worship a produce of something, you have to also worship the thing that produced it by default because it's the maker of your God. So you will end up with an infinite regression now.

 

[Nakosis]

Why would how God works be up to you?

I didn't say it was.

 

[Nakosis]

Both. Universal experience. That's why we can have language and communication.

Not sure how that helps. So whatever anyone in the universe experiences we accept as reality?

 

[Nakosis]

Why not? That's not reason. Just an assertion. It's like some who hate God.

Again, Wind is a produce of matter. If you worship a produce of something, you have to also worship the thing that produced it by default because it's the maker of your God. So you will end up with an infinite regression now.

Which is your assertion.
This is your assumption of how reality has to work, not mine.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Not sure how that helps. So whatever anyone in the universe experiences we accept as reality?

I meant we can rely on common human experience.

 

[Nakosis]

I meant we can rely on common human experience.

So then do we discount experiences we don't have in common?

 

[PureX]

There are no absolute truths. But there are more defensible and less defensible views on just about any topic.

The truth is what is. That is an absolute. Unfortunately that doesn't help us much since we cannot know 'what is'. We can only guess and theorize about it based on the relative and limited experiences we have with it. Because of this, we humans are in the unfortunately dishonest habit of pretending that our guesses and theories about 'what is' ARE what is. We just blindly and arrogantly presume that whatever we presume "is" to be, is what it is.

We know in our hearts that this isn't true, so we invent the gods and we elevate human reason and science to magically get us over that impediment. But of course it does not. And it never will.

And in my view the only way God (and gods &c) is known to exist is as a concept, notion, thing imagined in an individual brain.

EVERYTHING that exists, exists "as a concept, notion, thing imagined in an individual (or collective) brain". Even YOU only exist, "as a concept, notion, thing imagined in an individual (or collective) brain".

God never appears, never says, never does, except in imagination.

NOTHING DOES ANYTHING except through our imaginations. PERCEPTION IS CONCEPTION. Apart from this there is nothing but undifferentiated phenomena. Apart from this WE are nothing but undifferentiated phenomena.

The qualities attributed to God such as omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, being infinite, eternal, perfect, are all imaginary qualities. There is not the slightest evidence that God acts in the world, let alone does so benevolently.

For the world to exist, these qualities were necessary to make it's existence possible. For you to know that it exists, your cognitive abilities must first have been made possible.

There is no coherent concept of a real God, such that if we found a suspect we could determine whether [he] was God or not.

You will never recognize the concept of God because you don't want to. And because you will never leave the kindergarten of your materialist intellectual bias.

There is no coherent concept of "godness", the quality a real god would have and a superscientist who could create universes, raise the dead &c would lack.

Again, this is the result of your own blinding bias, and nothing more. The longer you hold onto it, the longer you will remain ignorant of the reality of God.

On the other hand, history suggests an imaginary god or two make a useful concept for humans, to explain the inexplicable, and to be called on for help when the alternative may be panic, and of course in politics, to empower tribal leaders through association or identification.

That is true, but there is a lot more to it then that. But you aren't going to recognize anything more, because you really don't want there to be any more to it.

 

[Nakosis]

Genesis (so, the Bible) is quite clear on this
There was nothing, and God created everything

So God is nothing?
Or do you mean there was nothing other than God?
Then, did God always exist? IOW, something, "God" has always existed?

 

[PearlSeeker]

Not sure how that helps. So whatever anyone in the universe experiences we accept as reality?

I meant we can rely on common human experience.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Sure, so you don't really need to make an argument against it. Just saying it kind of seems like a wasted effort.

Except where the claim is being used to coerce me into something, like attending a church or vote a certain way.

 

[Nakosis]

Except where the claim is being used to coerce me into something, like attending a church or vote a certain way.

There is always someone about trying to coerce you into something. I look at it as a way to work on my anti-coercion defense.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Idiots think reality is only physicality, so they think science is the only means of understanding it.

The idiots are the ones who think their fantasies are reality or meaningful or useful. As far as anybody knows, reality is nature and nature is physical. And yes, empiricism is the only path to knowledge. Every useful idea that you have came from experience, and the ideas that you have that didn't can't be used for anything.

idiots among us cannot see this, because their minds are closed by their blind belief in some grandiose fantasy of science as the fountainhead of all truth and wisdom.

But it's you with the grandiose fantasy. You think you see further and that others that can't follow you are idiots. And so, you give others unsolicited life advice.

How's that advice working out for you? What do you have to show for your efforts? What can idiots hope to achieve if they can escape their idiocy and elevate themselves to your level and see further like you do? Are you content? Are you happy? Are you at peace with yourself and your world?

 

[F1fan]

I didn't say it was.

You wrote this:

Not the way God works for me.

So unless you aren't using language properly you're saying God works for people in different, subjective ways.

Gravity works the same for everyone. Why wouldn't a God?

 

[F1fan]

So God is nothing?

Well, believers struggle to explain what God is, and isn't. The Genesis myth does not explain how God exists in a state of nothingness. It's probably an error of ancient people writing these stories. Believers have struggled to come up with explanations, and can't get beyond the lack of evidence.

Or do you mean there was nothing other than God?

This is what believers try to defend even though the text doesn't say this. But it's not a factual text, it's a series of stories.

Then, did God always exist? IOW, something, "God" has always existed?

No Gods are known to exist. It's more likely that energy has always existed, and humans invented stories that suggest some other non-factual, and improbable scenario.

 

[Nakosis]

You wrote this:


So unless you aren't using language properly you're saying God works for people in different, subjective ways.

Yes, or at least I don't know that God works the same for everybody. So I don't claim God as such.

Gravity works the same for everyone. Why wouldn't a God?

I don't equate God with gravity.

 

[Nakosis]

Well, believers struggle to explain what God is, and isn't. The Genesis myth does not explain how God exists in a state of nothingness. It's probably an error of ancient people writing these stories. Believers have struggled to come up with explanations, and can't get beyond the lack of evidence.

This is what believers try to defend even though the text doesn't say this. But it's not a factual text, it's a series of stories.

No Gods are known to exist. It's more likely that energy has always existed, and humans invented stories that suggest some other non-factual, and improbable scenario.

Sure, although it is hard to fully comprehend the eternal existence of anything.
Some pick that to be energy, some pick that to be God. I tend to think the "universe" has always existed in some form or another even though I can't understand how it is possible.

I accept it is something I will probably never have a answer for so your pick is as good as any.