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You Can't Argue Against God

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Okay then tell me, what is the better way to know, that water is made from H2O?

There is no better or worse way in the objective sense.
If you understood that sometimes you get a negative result when you ask a question, you would get, that the answer is negative.
 

Madsaac

Active Member
There is no better or worse way in the objective sense.
If you understood that sometimes you get a negative result when you ask a question, you would get, that the answer is negative.

Don't worry about 'objective sense' then.

Is science the best way to know that water is made from H2O?

Or whats the best way to know water is made of H2O?
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
But success is. Or useful is.
Sh*t happens. That is science. That it matters, is not sicence.
You should really stop infusing your own personal meaning into what people say and then demand those people to justify your personal meaning instead of what they actually meant.

When I say science is a succesful methodology, I mean a specific thing and have explained it multiple times already.

I'm not interested in your strawmen bs.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
You should really stop infusing your own personal meaning into what people say and then demand those people to justify your personal meaning instead of what they actually meant.

When I say science is a succesful methodology, I mean a specific thing and have explained it multiple times already.

I'm not interested in your strawmen bs.

You are unable to give evidence for science being succesful, as succesful is your subjective personal meannig.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
The brain makes the mind, without the brain there is no mind.

Yes sorry, I'm referring to ideas that are not up for interpretation like water is made from H2O for example. You don't think that's up for debate do you?

Isn't that the what we are discussing, how can certain ideas be up for personal interpretation? They are what they are?


By what mechanism does the brain make the mind? Correlations between areas of the brain and mental processes can be empirically observed, sure. But correlation is not causation. How does (observable) electro magnetic activity in the cells of an organ of the body, give rise to the (unobservable, to third parties) qualitative experience of consciousness? And how is it, if the brain makes the mind, that the mind is able to restructure the brain? This process is known as neuro-plasticity btw. Neuroplasticity - Wikipedia

You'll find little to debate about the molecular structure of water; one oxygen atom, two hydrogen, no arguments there. When it comes to the structure, and material substance, of atoms, and of sub-atomic particles, things get far more interesting. Wave–particle duality - Wikipedia

If you are determined to limit your understanding of the world to things that 'are what they are', your perceptions will be superficial. Nothing in this world is quite what it appears to be. Indeed, science tells us this.
Reality Is Not What It Seems - Wikipedia
 

PureX

Veteran Member
I agree, science does not seek to proclaim certainty. However it has the ability seek certainty (for most things) better then anything else on Earth and that's a fact! :)
That is simply not true. There are a great many questions we humans have that science cannot even address, let alone answer with any degree of certainty. Not the least of which are all those questions we humans have about the complex proposition labelled "God". And all those questions we humans have related to the concept of fate, and destiny, and the meaning and purpose of it all.

Science is limited to questions regarding physical functionality. This can be very useful, but to ignore the great human need for ethics, values, and purpose in life, all that functionality just becomes a box of loaded pistols thrown into a cage full of hyperactive monkeys. So it's time we stop praising science as the only and most accurate and important source of human knowledge when it DOES NOTHING to increase our collective wisdom. And knowledge without wisdom is a recipe for self-annihilation.
 
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PureX

Veteran Member
HUH ? your making absolutely no sense .. " The God that he doesn't believe in is what ever God you do believe in "

I don't believe any of the God nonsense you are selling .. and certainly not some God that "he" doesn't believe in. You are talking abject nonsense .. strawman fallacy coupled with inanity. You don't know anything about the God in which I believe sport .. .. not a single thing.. so why on earth are you pretending otherwise? Is this fantasyland hour and someone forgot to tell me ?
Yes, it's all very silly, isn't it. People that have no idea what God is and yet believe that there is no God, then busily proclaiming that everyone else's idea of God is wrong, and is just silly superstition. And the amazing thing is that no matter how many times the irrationality of this behavior is pointed out to them, they still can't see it. They have so fully convinced themselves that what they don't know means they know more than everyone else.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
And if we do that systematically, as science does, we can explore, describe, and seek to explain and put to use all kinds of things that work, fingers crossed, for our betterment. That is, science gives us far greater control over external reality than any other system we know.
But we don't need more control. We are about to control ourselves to extinction. What we need is more wisdom. And science does nothing for us in that regard. Nothing. Yet you continue to disparage the areas of human endeavor that does pursue wisdom, while you way over-exaggerate the positive influence of science. Do you WANT mankind to destroy itself?
A great deal of religion is about the emotional comfort of acculturated ceremony, and good luck to those who enjoy it. But like most human enterprises, it certainly has its dingbat fringes, its political fringes, its violent fringes.
What is science doing to help those on the "dingbat fringe" of society besides giving them ever more powerful weapons to run amok with? Meanwhile the scientism crowd tries to disparage every course of inquiry that is intended to seek wisdom over knowledge because it has not achieved that goal to their satisfaction? And these idiots consider themselves "critical thinkers"? Not hardly!
You appear to accuse science of being "blind",
I do not accuse science of anything but being science. The problem is that you cannot see science as science because all you can see is your own hyper-glorified mythical version of science. So when I attack that mythical scientism nonsense, you think I am attacking science.
Of course I recognize the concept of God (and gods, and all supernatural entities). The only way in which such things are known to exist is as concepts, notions, things imagined in individual brains.
That being the only way anything has ever been known, or ever will be known. And yet for some reason you truly cannot grasp this.
Your condescension, I suggest, is not a look that flatters you.
Why would I care about that?
 
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It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If you say I don't believe in God --- you have not defined what it is that you don't believe .. which means you are claiming that you don't believe in nothing .. which means you believe in something
I can't say that I understand what that means after the first clause. I did define what it is that I am saying that I don't believe exists when I say that I don't have a god belief. And although I believe many things, I "believe in" nothing. That phrase implies faith to me.
seek wisdom over knowledge
Wisdom is a type of knowledge. It's knowing how to live to achieve one's ultimate goals, which is usually to be comfortable and content. Lower-level knowledge is knowing how to achieve your immediate goals, that is, knowing how the world works. The higher-level knowledge is knowing how to work those levers to achieve those ultimate goals.
That being the only way anything has ever been known, or ever will be known.
I believe that you didn't understand him. He wrote, "Of course I recognize the concept of God (and gods, and all supernatural entities). The only way in which such things are known to exist is as concepts, notions, things imagined in individual brains." What he's telling you is that gods are not known to exist, that the idea of a god has no known real referent. Compare wolves and werewolves. Both are concepts, but one has an actual referent in reality. One refers to something actual and the other to something only imagined.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Wisdom is a type of knowledge. It's knowing how to live to achieve one's ultimate goals, which is usually to be comfortable and content.
Actually, wisdom is knowing what goals to set, and why. Which may or may not have anything to do with one’s comfort.
Lower-level knowledge is knowing how to achieve your immediate goals, that is, knowing how the world works. The higher-level knowledge is knowing how to work those levers to achieve those ultimate goals.
The scientism cultists think everything is about functionality. Unfortunately they completely disregard the more important issue of intention and purpose.
I believe that you didn't understand him. He wrote, "Of course I recognize the concept of God (and gods, and all supernatural entities). The only way in which such things are known to exist is as concepts, notions, things imagined in individual brains." What he's telling you is that gods are not known to exist, that the idea of a god has no known real referent. Compare wolves and werewolves. Both are concepts, but one has an actual referent in reality. One refers to something actual and the other to something only imagined.
You are both foolishly defining existence as a physical phenomenon. When it’s actually a metaphysical conceptualization. But your philosophical materialist philosophy doesn’t allow you to accept this. So you just keep making the same mistake over and over and over.
 
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