Which i do rely on others methods. They have shown there to be design in the world by finding out how the whole world works.
What methods are you referring to? Which of those methods has “shown there to be design in the world?”
Making something thats complicated and turning it into sinplicity is an art. It takes real brain power to do it. I challenge you to do it. It dont have to be tedious. The more you understand something, the easyer it is to explain it.
Okay. I still find it tedious.
1 you assume this
2 this shows what motivates your view. Desire, rather then intellectual reasoning.
I assume what?
Intellectual reasoning tells me that there is no reason not to treat all human beings as equals. Intellectual reasoning tells me that given that all human beings are equal, we are all entitled to the same rights as every other human. Intellectual reasoning tells me that when individuals’ mental, emotional and physical needs are met, they are in an optimum position to be happy and productive members of society.
You did some wild gymnastics in that statement.
Such as? Please lay out for me what your issue is.
The claim is that i exist as a human. Your faith is in that statement that i exist as a human.
What faith is required to determine that you are most likely a human? Or even a bot? Do giraffes usually debate on internet forums?
You do not know this, i could be a bot. None of this has been verified.
It’s been verified by our experiences with the world and what is known to exist in said world.
You could be a bot, or you could be a human. The odds are pretty low that you’re something else. What faith is required of me to decide that you are most likely a human, or even a bot?
Yes, the degree if confidence is the same. Why? Because to me and many billions of others, its not extrordinary to infer a designer of the universe if we see the hallmarks of design. Its not extrordinary if we have spiritual experiences.
Okay, so you see the “hallmarks of design” but can’t seem to articulate what those are. Which is the same as saying nothing at all, in my opinion.
How on earth is the degree of confidence the same when I’m trying to determine whether you’re a human or a giraffe?
Also, you dont know whether im a giraff either. I very well could be a giraff. Id have to be a genetically modified one made from a mad scientist so id have fingers to type on a phone. But, ya, you have no way of knowing. I could be human, a bot, or a giraff. You dont know, nor has it been verified.
Really?? I can be reasonably certain that you are not a giraffe, for a number of reasons. Giraffes can’t talk or type or speak English, as far as we know. Show me a giraffe who does, and I’ll change my mind.
Sorry but your argument is silly. And I’m sorry but if you’re going to seriously try to tell me that the possibilities that you are a giraffe or a human are equal, I’m going to have to question your reasoning abilities. Unless of course you’ve seen a giraffe that can debate on internet forums and can point it out to me.
The universe could have been made by intelligence or nothing+chance+time or was always here in one shape or other. We have no way of knowing one way or the other, but, the likelyhood is that intelligence made it, just like the likelyhood that i am a human typing to you.
Sure. So why do you claim it was the god you believe in?
I do have evidence. My reasons for faith are not feelings or emotions, its evidence. We see order and design in the universe. Look at your eyes, nose, ears, mouth, ect. Or the DNA, which the OP is about. I information.
Evidence you’ve failed to provide, thus far. In fact, when I asked for your evidence, you started talking about faith instead. Hence my statement.
Eyes, ears, mouths, etc. aren’t evidence for any gods.
Your thing is that you want to directly SEE God. No one BUT God himself can demonstrate that. And thats totally up to him, OR you as well.
What I want is evidence.
It’s up to
me if God decides to demonstrate its existence? Um no, it’s up to the god.
That’s just another cop-out answer to me.
If god doesn’t care enough to show people that he’s there, then what can I do about it but continue on as if “he” isn’t?
Thats not my reasons. In fact, believing does NOT make me feel safe at all.
I believe because of design, and because of ESP research and NDEs and my own spiritual experiences.
I didn’t say it was your reason. I was just providing an example. But my point stands, as you are still giving me reasons you want to believe a thing, rather than evidence for that thing. There’s nothing linking NDEs or ESP to any god(s), other than your desire to connect them.
Belief does not always lead to a safe feeling. Let me give you a metaphor: if you wer taking a hike in the woods and believed a brown bear was near by due to fresh droppings on the ground and a bear smell, but could not see him, would you feel safe? Hell no you wouldn't. We dont believe because it makes us feel safe, we believe because we see evidence.
Not sure how that’s comparable to God beliefs. Tell me, under your belief system, what happens to you when you die?
There is similarity. People see a light, sometimes a human figure, and the light communicates to them telepathically. Theres a euphoria sense of compassion. Ive read 600 NDEs on a database and there are these similarities.
And what evidence do we have that indicates that telepathy, NDEs or euphoric feelings were created by, or have anything to do with god(s)?
This is why personal experiences don’t really constitute evidence to any but the person experiencing it. Because you are attributing your experiences to things that aren’t actually connected to the experiences, because you already believe some god(s) exist in the first place.
First off, do you know what chakras or energy centers are? You can verify these through meditation. Also you can verify them through the transitional phase of an Out of body experience. If some energy centers are not activated enough, you get STUCK in your body in the effort of trying to project. Sometimes half your soul gets out, but the other half is stuck in the body. Theres been testimony of that ive read about.
Yes I do, and no, they are not verified through meditation or out of body experiences, which aren’t verified either. Neither is the existence of souls. You make a lot of claims based on very little evidence and then you wonder why I keep asking for evidence.
Great, but, they do not see the lanscape of our dreams. Only brain firing patterns. Of course the dream is in the brain. But brain firing going on also does not even prove the dream originates from the brain either, no more then when i type on this phone, the phone originates in my brain. Yea, when i look at the phone, brain firing goes off, does that mean the phone is only in my brain? No, of course not.
Why wouldn’t it show that dreams originate in brains, given that they we can actually watch the brain activity occurring in real-time, as well as body movements that correspond to dream behaviour. What evidence do you have that dreams originate somewhere else or that they are supernatural or something?
Its not important what you call extrordinary. My last dream i remember was a snake bit my foot. I nor scientists can demonstrate that. Nor can they or you see that. But, its just as undemonstratable as demonstrating God. Its no more extrordinary to my scope. Calling something extrordinary means nothing.
Of course whether something is extraordinary or not matters. God claims are extraordinary. Claims that I’m interacting with a human over the internet, for example, are not extraordinary. Claims that trees exist aren’t extraordinary in nature; in fact, it’s a rather mundane claim. Claims that ghosts exist,
are extraordinary in nature.
Logic is important to use in these kinds of discussions since rarely can anything be "PROVEN".
I’d be happy if you could demonstrate any of your claims and provide some evidence for them, rather than just your say-so.
Actually, your parrents own you till your 18. Actually, the government owns them more, by asserting it.
Parents don’t own children as property and cannot treat them as such. Parents cannot sell their children or abuse them or do any old thing they want with them, as your God is supposedly allowed to do.
But good point, after I turn 18, I don’t have to have any ties whatsoever with my parents. Wouldn’t it be weird if they told me that I still belonged to them and had to do whatever they said for the rest of my life or they’d lock me up in the basement and torture me for eternity? I should probably call the police if they said something like that, don’t you think?
And god, owns the universe. That includes you. So, if you resisted, youd just be a unwilling slave. Think about it?
Well, that's your claim to demonstrate.
Sorry, I’m nobody’s slave and I think it’s strange that anybody would want to be. If god wants me to be it’s slave, “he” should step out of the shadows and state as much. Otherwise, I’ll have to continue living as if it isn’t there at all.
Is that really how you see the world?
