Your Complaints About Hinduism

[firedragon]

Actually now I look at phala and vipaka the words seem to be describing the same thing do they not?

That's exactly what I said. I was only asking you about you making Karma or Kamma equivalent to Pala or Vipaka. They are two different things. One follows the other, not synonymous. Hope you understand.

it is just expressing the idea that all actions are results

Actually, all actions create results. Not synonymous.

By the way, I think the link you provided for Phala is using the h as an aspirate. You don't pronounce Ph as Ph in Phillip. The h is pronounced after P. Almost silent but the hayanna or ha is pronounced with Pa. It's quite difficult to write and show in English using one word.

 

[Banach-Tarski Paradox]

I don't know a significant amount about Hinduism, but my main issue with it, along with Buddhism, is the concept of karma, which I find to be an elaborate form of victim-blaming.

My 7th grade math teacher introduced probability by saying that if a coin turns up heads, the next time it’ll be more likely to turn up tails, just to help even things out.

Had I not called it the “theory of probability karma”, I might have avoided being sent to the dean.

 

[Secret Chief]

That's exactly what I said. I was only asking you about you making Karma or Kamma equivalent to Pala or Vipaka. They are two different things. One follows the other, not synonymous. Hope you understand.


Actually, all actions create results. Not synonymous.

By the way, I think the link you provided for Phala is using the h as an aspirate. You don't pronounce Ph as Ph in Phillip. The h is pronounced after P. Almost silent but the hayanna or ha is pronounced with Pa. It's quite difficult to write and show in English using one word.

I just meant results initiate further actions, not that they are synonyms.

Seems a bit silly to have two words (phala and vipaka) having the same meaning.

 

[SalixIncendium]

It's "Pala" my brother. Not "Phala". I really don't understand why people say "Phala". It's really not in the Pali. I think that Ph thing is influenced by some other language. Or maybe they are trying to emphasize the pronunciation which with a Ph gives a very wrong impression.

While you're correct about the pronunciation, you are incorrect about the spelling.

Phala, Phāla: 51 definitions

Phala (फल) refers to the “benefits (of faith)”, as discussed in the twenty-fourth chapter of the Nāradīyasaṃhitā: a Pāñcarātra document comprising ove...

www.wisdomlib.org

I've actually heard it pronounced with a softer 'p' sound than in the example, almost pronouncing it with the lips less pursed than a regular English 'p' sound.

Nonetheless, the most common spelling for फल is phala.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I have no complaints just an observation based in faith.

I see any religion made of our own self, that has no foundation in God given Guidance, is ultimately erroneous.

Regards Tony

So no complaints...you just felt the need to come into this thread and lift your proverbial Baha'i leg on the religion.

Thanks.

Though I will say that I find the irony in your statement adorable since the Baha'i appear to lap up Vaishnavism like a cat to milk in a saucer (yes, @Secret Chief, I'm aware cats are lactose intolerant).

 

[Secret Chief]

So no complaints...you just felt the need to come into this thread and lift your proverbial Baha'i leg on the religion.

Thanks.

Though I will say that I find the irony in your statement adorable since the Baha'i appear to lap up Vaishnavism like a cat to milk in a saucer (yes, @Secret Chief, I'm aware cats are lactose intolerant).

Dear fellow, I'm sure you meant cat milk.

 

[Secret Chief]

I have questions (to learn more) about this, but I'll have to keep them for another thread, since this one is about Hinduism.

Yeah, I should have typed phala not pharma. Jeez.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So no complaints...you just felt the need to come into this thread and lift your proverbial Baha'i leg on the religion.

Thanks.

Though I will say that I find the irony in your statement adorable since the Baha'i appear to lap up Vaishnavism like a cat to milk in a saucer (yes, @Secret Chief, I'm aware cats are lactose intolerant).

It goes for all people of all faiths and I am included, but if you choose to see it that way, I have no complaints.

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

While you're correct about the pronunciation, you are incorrect about the spelling.

Mate. It's "Murtaja Payanna" the Sinhala Pali script. And even in the Sanskrit, it's the Osthya of the same vagga as Pali. If you are referring to the "English" spelling, I don't know transliteration for any of the languages I know.

So no. I did not make any mistake in the spellings. And I am referring to Buddhism. Read the Tipitaka, and read how Pala is written in it in it's original script.

Cheers.

 

[Yerda]

Karma and reincarnation look like wishful thinking to me.

 

[Secret Chief]

Karma and reincarnation look like wishful thinking to me.

Seen post 4? @SalixIncendium said karma is simple causality.

 

[Yerda]

Seen post 4? @SalixIncendium said karma is simple causality.

Good actions resulting in merit resulting in happiness (and the opposite) don't sound like simple causality to me.

 

[Secret Chief]

Good actions resulting in merit resulting in happiness (and the opposite) don't sound like simple causality to me.

Fair enough; twas but quoting.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Good actions resulting in merit resulting in happiness (and the opposite) don't sound like simple causality to me.

If I hold onto the hammer, that's a meritorious action resulting in happiness. If I fail to maintain my grip and it falls on my toe, I probably won't be quite as happy.

Expand upon that to whatever extent you wish (or not). I don't think causality is all that deniable. No need to incorporate woo unless one wants to.

 

[Yerda]

If I hold onto the hammer, that's a meritorious action resulting in happiness. If I fail to maintain my grip and it falls on my toe, I probably won't be quite as happy.

Expand upon that to whatever extent you wish (or not). I don't think causality is all that deniable. No need to incorporate woo unless one wants to.

If I perform an evil action with great rewards for myself I may not suffer.

If I perform a moral action with great benefit for other people I may not receive happiness.

The example of dropping a hammer is simple causality. The example of poisoning the water supply in order to reap greater profits is not so simple. It is the people who depend on the water who suffer. If I'm particularly cold I might never suffer in the least for the evil I've done.

 

[crossfire]

Good actions resulting in merit resulting in happiness (and the opposite) don't sound like simple causality to me.

“Sow a thought and you reap an action; sow an act and you reap a habit; sow a habit and you reap a character; sow a character and you reap a destiny.”
​

― Ralph Waldo Emerson

 

[SalixIncendium]

If I perform an evil action with great rewards for myself I may not suffer.

If I perform a moral action with great benefit for other people I may not receive happiness.

The example of dropping a hammer is simple causality. The example of poisoning the water supply in order to reap greater profits is not so simple. It is the people who depend on the water who suffer. If I'm particularly cold I might never suffer in the least for the evil I've done.

You're looking at this through the lens of punishment and reward.

What is it that would cause you to "suffer" or to "receive happiness?"

 

[Yerda]

You're looking at this through the lens of punishment and reward.

What is it that would cause you to "suffer" or to "receive happiness?"

I'm trying to look at it in the way I've heard Hindu monks discuss it. In which it is karma that leads to the suffering or happiness.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I'm trying to look at it in the way I've heard Hindu monks discuss it. In which it is karma that leads to the suffering or happiness.

Yes. 'Karma' is a Sanskrit word whose English translation is 'action.' That is how I'm reading "karma" in the context of your sentence above.

Essentially, what you are writing is, "...it is action that leads to suffering or happiness."

 

[Yerda]

Ok, can we start with the wikipedia entry titled "Karma in Hinduism"? This is the first paragraph and a bit:

Karma is a concept of Hinduism which describes a system in which beneficial effects are derived from past beneficial actions and harmful effects from past harmful actions, creating a system of actions and reactions throughout a soul's (jivatman's) reincarnated lives,[1] forming a cycle of rebirth. The causality is said to apply not only to the material world but also to our thoughts, words, actions, and actions that others do under our instructions.[2]

For example, if one performs a good deed, something good will happen to them, and the same applies if one does a bad thing.

Would you say that the entry here is incorrect?