Your Opinion

[nPeace]

Do you agree?

1. Every abortion is elective.
2. Thus the question about vaccines derived from aborted fetuses concerns whether or not their use involves the Catholic in immoral cooperation with the evil of abortion. The answer, in short, would appear to be “no.” For it seems impossible for an individual to cooperate with an action that is now completed and exists in the past. Clearly, use of a vaccine in the present does not cause the one who is immunized to share in the immoral intention or action of those who carried out the abortion in the past. Neither does such use provide some circumstance essential to the commission of that past act. Thus use of these vaccines would seem permissible.

Yes or no would suffice, but feel free to discuss why, if you wish.

 

[Lain]

Do you agree?

1. Every abortion is elective.
2. Thus the question about vaccines derived from aborted fetuses concerns whether or not their use involves the Catholic in immoral cooperation with the evil of abortion. The answer, in short, would appear to be “no.” For it seems impossible for an individual to cooperate with an action that is now completed and exists in the past. Clearly, use of a vaccine in the present does not cause the one who is immunized to share in the immoral intention or action of those who carried out the abortion in the past. Neither does such use provide some circumstance essential to the commission of that past act. Thus use of these vaccines would seem permissible.

Yes or no would suffice, but feel free to discuss why, if you wish.

1) No, I do not agree. For I thought the term "abortion" included miscarriages, so not every abortion is willed for it's own sake, or chosen as an act (a better phrasing).
2) Yes, I agree that it is permissible.

 

[nPeace]

1) No, I do not agree. For I thought the term "abortion" included miscarriages, so not every abortion is willed for it's own sake, or chosen as an act (a better phrasing).
2) Yes, I agree that it is permissible.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[nPeace]

@Lain Do you agree with this statement... it seems impossible for an individual to cooperate with an action that is now completed and exists in the past.

 

[Subduction Zone]

1. No, clearly not. My sister in law had an ectopic pregnancy. Those can be life threatening and there is no way for the embryo (if it even gets to that state) to survive. They are very prolife but they are also realists. They knew that rather than put her at risk of death or perhaps eliminating her ability to have children in the future the correct response was to have the doomed embryo removed.

2. Again it would not be immoral to use vaccines. There is no fetal tissue in vaccines themselves. The early products are tested on fetal cells from abortions in the 1960's. Those questionable "human" lives have saved endless lives around the world and will continue to save many more.

 

[PureX]

Do you agree?

1. Every abortion is elective.
2. Thus the question about vaccines derived from aborted fetuses concerns whether or not their use involves the Catholic in immoral cooperation with the evil of abortion. The answer, in short, would appear to be “no.” For it seems impossible for an individual to cooperate with an action that is now completed and exists in the past. Clearly, use of a vaccine in the present does not cause the one who is immunized to share in the immoral intention or action of those who carried out the abortion in the past. Neither does such use provide some circumstance essential to the commission of that past act. Thus use of these vaccines would seem permissible.

Yes or no would suffice, but feel free to discuss why, if you wish.

Ask the same people proposing this culpability if the gun manufacturers are responsible for the deaths being cause by the guns they manufacture, after they have been manufactured and sold. I am quite sure this question will clear up the notion of indirect culpability after the fact.

Or it would if they had any interest in clarity or reason, at all.

 

[epronovost]

@Lain Do you agree with this statement... it seems impossible for an individual to cooperate with an action that is now completed and exists in the past.

I would personally disagree. It's possible to cooperate with an action that is now completed and exist in the past, but only in certain circumstances. The best example would be consumption habits. If I buy a steak, the animal has been raised and slaughter in the past, well before I even thought of buying that particular steak. Though, by buying it, I stimulate and encourage farmers to raise and slaughter beef to make steaks. I create a demand. This would be a form of cooperation and support of an action that exists in the past, but stands to be reproduced in the future. Though the comparison isn't apt in all circumstances. In the case of vaccines, they were tested on fetal cells that date back from the 60's. Taking a vaccine doesn't encourage or support any future abortion nor does it justify past abortions per say.

 

[Lain]

@Lain Do you agree with this statement... it seems impossible for an individual to cooperate with an action that is now completed and exists in the past.

Yes, I agree. When I think of what people mean actually when they say things that seem to accuse others of cooperating in past evil acts what they really mean is one of two things I believe: (1) someone is perpetuating an evil state that began in the past [like continuing to deprive works of a just wage in a business you inherited], some kind of just doing the act yourself even, or (2) someone is appropriating the results of an evil action, that is making use of what has already been done [example given by scientific findings obtained by unethical experiments]. Neither of these are cooperating with a past action by your act, it just seems impossible to do that.

 

[exchemist]

Do you agree?

1. Every abortion is elective.
2. Thus the question about vaccines derived from aborted fetuses concerns whether or not their use involves the Catholic in immoral cooperation with the evil of abortion. The answer, in short, would appear to be “no.” For it seems impossible for an individual to cooperate with an action that is now completed and exists in the past. Clearly, use of a vaccine in the present does not cause the one who is immunized to share in the immoral intention or action of those who carried out the abortion in the past. Neither does such use provide some circumstance essential to the commission of that past act. Thus use of these vaccines would seem permissible.

Yes or no would suffice, but feel free to discuss why, if you wish.

As far as Catholic teaching goes this is a non-issue. The pope has confirmed there is no moral issue whatsoever in using these vaccines. You seem to be pushing at an open door.

 

[Sheldon]

Do you agree?

1. Every abortion is elective.

No, that seems like a misrepresentation to me.

share in the immoral intention or action of those who carried out the abortion in the past.

No, I don't agree that having or helping a woman to have, an abortion is immoral. If that's what you meant.

I have no idea what vaccination has to do with abortion, and I've read the post several times and am not sure why they are being compared at all.

 

[Rival]

Every abortion is elective.

No; at least not in the sense of 'wanted'.

Thus the question about vaccines derived from aborted fetuses concerns whether or not their use involves the Catholic in immoral cooperation with the evil of abortion. The answer, in short, would appear to be “no.” For it seems impossible for an individual to cooperate with an action that is now completed and exists in the past. Clearly, use of a vaccine in the present does not cause the one who is immunized to share in the immoral intention or action of those who carried out the abortion in the past. Neither does such use provide some circumstance essential to the commission of that past act. Thus use of these vaccines would seem permissible.

No, it doesn't. We have learned a lot from vivisection on animals, but treatments used as a result of these experiments do not mean we support or partook of animal torture.

 

[Subduction Zone]

As far as Catholic teaching goes this is a non-issue. The pope has confirmed there is no moral issue whatsoever in using these vaccines. You seem to be pushing at an open door.

I am pretty sure that @nPeace is a member of a more fundamentalistic sect. But the member that he was having a discussion with is Catholic. So Catholics are apt to follow the Pope on this. Many fundamentalists oppose vaccines due to the mistaken belief that there are fetal cells in the vaccine itself. Of course that is not the case. Vaccines are tested on fetal cells in their early development. And those fetal cells are from the 1960's.

 

[SomeRandom]

I think it would be disrespectful to those fetus cells to not use them as intended. I mean they just give you their cells and you disregard their sacrifice? Rude much?

Okay but seriously though. I can understand people who are stringently pro life wanting an alternative. Like vaccines without fetus cells. Which I’m pretty sure already exists for most if not all vaccines these days. Unless I’m mistaken.
Also not all abortions are elective. I mean miscarriages are a thing.

 

[exchemist]

I am pretty sure that @nPeace is a member of a more fundamentalistic sect. But the member that he was having a discussion with is Catholic. So Catholics are apt to follow the Pope on this. Many fundamentalists oppose vaccines due to the mistaken belief that there are fetal cells in the vaccine itself. Of course that is not the case. Vaccines are tested on fetal cells in their early development. And those fetal cells are from the 1960's.

Yes, I know. Not only has that foetal cell line been cultured ever since the 1960s, so it in no way represents tissue from a foetus, but the original foetus itself was not aborted deliberately to harvest these cells. The cell line is just making something good out of whatever unfortunate circumstance gave rise to the abortion. So it's quite ridiculous to condemn life-saving medicines produced in this way.

 

[Altfish]

Do you agree?

1. Every abortion is elective.
2. Thus the question about vaccines derived from aborted fetuses concerns whether or not their use involves the Catholic in immoral cooperation with the evil of abortion. The answer, in short, would appear to be “no.” For it seems impossible for an individual to cooperate with an action that is now completed and exists in the past. Clearly, use of a vaccine in the present does not cause the one who is immunized to share in the immoral intention or action of those who carried out the abortion in the past. Neither does such use provide some circumstance essential to the commission of that past act. Thus use of these vaccines would seem permissible.

Yes or no would suffice, but feel free to discuss why, if you wish.

1. No - most abortions are known as miscarriages and these (If you believe in god) are caused by god.
2. So, if (and I don't believe it to be true) aborted foetuses are in anyway used, they can use one of god's aborted foetuses.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

the evil of abortion

What evidence exists that abortion is evil?

Religious dogma?

Question 1: Yes

Question 2: what are you talking about?