Zionism

[I.S.L.A.M617]

How many Arabs have been forcefully expelled in the last 10 years? Got a statistic on that?

"Defensive" conquering and forceful expulsion are the same thing...

 

[Shermana]

"Defensive" conquering and forceful expulsion are the same thing...

Considering Israel is facing an increasing demographic problem of Arabs possibly outnumbering them, I'd like to see just how many Arabs have been "Forcefully expelled". And please don't cite the 1948 "Nakba", that was the Arab leaders encouraging them to flee with promises of war booty and spoil upon their return. Israel let everyone who stayed have citizenship. The only "Catastrophe" was in listening to them and leaving their villages for use for their armies.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Considering Israel is facing an increasing demographic problem of Arabs possibly outnumbering them, I'd like to see just how many Arabs have been "Forcefully expelled". And please don't cite the 1948 "Nakba", that was the Arab leaders encouraging them to flee with promises of war booty and spoil upon their return. Israel let everyone who stayed have citizenship. The only "Catastrophe" was in listening to them and leaving their villages for use for their armies.

If you look at a map of Israeli and Palestinian territory from 1947 to now, the Palestinian territory gets progressively smaller. Unless these people are leaving their homes voluntarily, there must be some force involved... I'm not saying it's right or wrong; just don't act like there isn't a war going on.

 

[Shermana]

If you look at a map of Israeli and Palestinian territory from 1947 to now, the Palestinian territory gets progressively smaller. Unless these people are leaving their homes voluntarily, there must be some force involved... I'm not saying it's right or wrong; just don't act like there isn't a war going on.

Why are you changing the subject? We're talking about "Forced expulsions", not the territory getting smaller. Are you seriously that uninformed about the situation to think that as the "Palestinian territory" gets smaller (As if there ever was "Palestinian territory" to begin with, it went from British to Jordanian hands and never, ever, ever was "Palestinian territory") that they forcefully expelled the residents?

Sigh, the utter ignorance of the basic history from those who feel so confident in talking about the Israeli-Palestine conflict is astounding. No other conflict on Earth do people rush in to place judgment without actually knowing the basic facts, or without bothering to check the version of facts they think they know.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Why are you changing the subject? We're talking about "Forced expulsions", not the territory getting smaller. Are you seriously that uninformed about the situation to think that as the "Palestinian territory" gets smaller (As if there ever was "Palestinian territory" to begin with, it went from British to Jordanian hands and never, ever, ever was "Palestinian territory") that they forcefully expelled the residents?

I wasn't changing the subject. The territory shrinking is clearly indicative of forceful expulsion, unless of course these people were leaving their homes voluntarily... Are you telling me the Israelis just said "alright guys, time to go", and the Palestinians were like "OK, here you go guys", and that was it? There's clearly an armed conflict; everybody knows that.

 

[thau]

It takes generations upon generations of minuscule changes over centuries. There is also no chance involved. Organisms change over time to adapt to new environments, and every evolutionary change is part of that adaptation. Belief in evolution is only stupid to people who are too stupid to understand what evolution is...

Swallow whatever you like. I have been around the block, too. There are over one thousand machines in a single human cell. That's some magic brother of "adaptations with no mind or consciousness" leading the charge.

Not in as many years as there are atoms in the universe could such marvelous developments occur by pure luck. (I choke on the term natural selection, fyi) It is God and God alone.

It's like Chesterton, I believe, once said. "When man stops believing in God he does not then believe in nothing. He will believe in anything."

 

[Shermana]

I wasn't changing the subject. The territory shrinking is clearly indicative of forceful expulsion, unless of course these people were leaving their homes voluntarily... Are you telling me the Israelis just said "alright guys, time to go", and the Palestinians were like "OK, here you go guys", and that was it? There's clearly an armed conflict; everybody knows that.

"Territory shrinking" (As if it's "Palesitnian territory") means forceful expulsions? By all means, please show me some statistics of how many Arabs were "forcefully expelled" every time Israel won a war the Arabs started, thanks.

Seriously, learn what you're talking about before talking about it.

 

[Shermana]

No, belief in macro-evolution (not micro-evolution) is stupid for people who do understand what it is and recognize just what exactly the science is behind it. But why are we debating evolution here?

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

"Territory shrinking" (As if it's "Palesitnian territory") means forceful expulsions? By all means, please show me some statistics of how many Arabs were "forcefully expelled" every time Israel won a war the Arabs started, thanks.

Seriously, learn what you're talking about before talking about it.

You just said it yourself in bold. Justified forceful expulsion is still forceful expulsion. I never said the Israelis were just herding innocent people off like cattle; I said more than once that it is an ARMED CONFLICT, meaning there are two parties of combatants. The land is spoils of war, meaning somebody obviously had to be forced off it. It wasn't empty land, and the people didn't leave voluntarily. I'm in no way implying that the Palestinians are innocent in any of this. I know what I'm talking about; you just think I'm saying something that I'm not.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

No, belief in macro-evolution (not micro-evolution) is stupid for people who do understand what it is and recognize just what exactly the science is behind it. But why are we debating evolution here?

Apparently I believe canaries turn into wolverines overnight because I don't believe in God... Hell if I know...

 

[Shermana]

You just said it yourself in bold. Justified forceful expulsion is still forceful expulsion. I never said the Israelis were just herding innocent people off like cattle; I said more than once that it is an ARMED CONFLICT, meaning there are two parties of combatants. The land is spoils of war, meaning somebody obviously had to be forced off it. It wasn't empty land, and the people didn't leave voluntarily. I'm in no way implying that the Palestinians are innocent in any of this. I know what I'm talking about; you just think I'm saying something that I'm not.

Okay....stop....please. Either prove that Israel has forcefully expelled people and show statistics when they conquered the territory or kindly stop repeating yourself and avoiding my question each time, thanks. It's kinda getting annoying now.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Swallow whatever you like. I have been around the block, too. There are over one thousand machines in a single human cell. That's some magic brother of "adaptations with no mind or consciousness" leading the charge.

There is a consciousness leading the charge. It's the consciousness of the organism that's adapting...

Not in as many years as there are atoms in the universe could such marvelous developments occur by pure luck. (I choke on the term natural selection, fyi) It is God and God alone.

Luck has nothing to do with it...

It's like Chesterton, I believe, once said. "When man stops believing in God he does not then believe in nothing. He will believe in anything."

I believe in plenty of things, just not God...

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Okay....stop....please. Either prove that Israel has forcefully expelled people and show statistics when they conquered the territory or kindly stop repeating yourself and avoiding my question each time, thanks. It's kinda getting annoying now.

I'm not avoiding your question. Take the time to actually read what I'm saying. Let's say for the sake of this conversation that the Arabs always make the first move.

The Arabs start conflicts with the Israelis. We can agree on this, right?

The Israelis fight them off.

The land that the (now dead) Arab attackers attacked from is taken by the Israelis. Are we still on the same page?

This is forceful expulsion, even though there is a good reason for doing it.

Unless the Israelis are buying the land and the Palestinians are leaving voluntarily, there is some sort of force involved. Territory doesn't shrink on its own. I can't stress enough that I'm not taking sides...

 

[Shermana]

Apparently forceful expulsion has a different meaning between me and you.

In your definition, merely taking the land is "forceful expulsion".

In my definition, kicking people off the land is "forceful expulsion".

Unless I'm mistaken of course and you are claiming that there are in fact Palestinians being "kicked off the land" of which you of course have statistics and links to provide for us to prove this assertion, because otherwise, Israel is facing a looming Demographic time bomb from the MILLIONS OF ARABS IN JUDEA SAMARIA.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Apparently forceful expulsion has a different meaning between me and you.

In your definition, merely taking the land is "forceful expulsion".

In my definition, kicking people off the land is "forceful expulsion".

Exactly... If there is force involved and people are leaving, then (by my definition) there is forceful expulsion. I in no way claimed that either side was innocent or guilty, or that people who were just minding their own business were herded off the land. There was obviously a fight for the land, and the losing side was forced off it. That's what happens in a war. There is in fact a war going on.

This is just a war where I feel nobody wins, like the Syria conflict. There can either be an authoritarian apartheid state, or a theocracy run by terrorists... You can pick which side is which lol.

 

[Shermana]

Losing side was forced off of it?

:slap:

Did you not see my big red letters? I'm pretty sure I included that sentence without going back to edit it the first time.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Losing side was forced off of it?

:slap:

Did you not see my big red letters? I'm pretty sure I included that sentence without going back to edit it the first time.

Yeah I saw them. Just because there are millions of them doesn't mean they don't lose fights. If they won, there certainly wouldn't be an Israel anymore.

 

[Shermana]

Yeah I saw them. Just because there are millions of them doesn't mean they don't lose fights. If they won, there certainly wouldn't be an Israel anymore.

:faint:

Are you finally agreeing that Israel did NOT Forcefully expel them?

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

:faint:

Are you finally agreeing that Israel did NOT Forcefully expel them?

No. Winning a fight is still forceful expulsion... Like you said, we apparently have different definitions of the term.

 

[Shermana]

No. Winning a fight is still forceful expulsion... Like you said, we apparently have different definitions of the term.

Is there any way I can convince you that forceful expulsion means forcefully expelling people off the land?