Zoroastrian Reflections

[Rival]

Ahuramazda bless you!

This thread is to post random musings on the faith, favourites pieces of Scripture and various ideas you might have. Philosophic discussion welcome as well as minor questions. A little Mazdayasnian tea party, if you will.

 

[Rival]

WHAT (man, where is a good EYE_BUG_OUT emoji)!? How did you find the faith then?

Are you going to keep on breaking Rule 10? Cut out posting here or else I will have to report you.

 

[matthew_/!/]

A little Mazdayasnian tea party, if you will.

Before the tea party begins, what type of tea will be available?

 

[Rival]

Before the tea party begins, what type of tea will be available?

All types.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

After my initial perusals of the Venidad, I think I quite like the story of Yima in Fargard 2 - and how Ahura Mazda, when Yima turns down his offer for Yima to become the bearer of Mazda's law and religion to the world, respects his decision and asks him to help be a force for good & progression - to just be as good a person as Yima can be.

I like that. It's not often I come across a story where the featured deity actually respects the right of its creation to make choices. Usually it's either blind submission on the part of the mortal, or divine wrath when the mortal dares to do his or her own thing. That's very refreshing.

 

[Corthos]

This is such a good idea for a thread... I'm gonna look forward to seeing what folks have to say. =)

After my initial perusals of the Venidad, I think I quite like the story of Yima in Fargard 2 - and how Ahura Mazda, when Yima turns down his offer for Yima to become the bearer of Mazda's law and religion to the world, respects his decision and asks him to help be a force for good & progression - to just be as good a person as Yima can be.

I like that. It's not often I come across a story where the featured deity actually respects the right of its creation to make choices. Usually it's either blind submission on the part of the mortal, or divine wrath when the mortal dares to do his or her own thing. That's very refreshing.

The Vendidad is truly a controversial text, even among traditionalists... I look forward to reading it and seeing what all the fuss is about. XD

What you say, though, seems to echo what I've read and understand about Ahura Mazda. Freedom of choice is a huge aspect of the religion, and though the concept of sin is in later texts (at least, as far as I understand), Zoroaster never mentions it in the Gathas. He only ever mentions right and wrong choices, and the consequences those have...

I must admit I'm a bit curious, though. How do you feel about traditional/orthodox philosophy vs. reformist/Gathic philosophy?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

This is such a good idea for a thread... I'm gonna look forward to seeing what folks have to say. =)



The Vendidad is truly a controversial text, even among traditionalists... I look forward to reading it and seeing what all the fuss is about. XD

If you want a free review: it's a pretty weird body of text. After that story it comes out with some bizarre ecclesiastical punishments for various 'offences' e.g. burying a body instead of burning it, instructions for how to treat bodies in the winter (when there's no birds to eat the flesh) and how certain contract violations should be punished.

What you say, though, seems to echo what I've read and understand about Ahura Mazda. Freedom of choice is a huge aspect of the religion, and though the concept of sin is in later texts (at least, as far as I understand), Zoroaster never mentions it in the Gathas. He only ever mentions right and wrong choices, and the consequences those have...

I get that impression too. The Venidad even covers what should happen if a human involuntarily 'violates' the fire with impure offerings (the example given is if a bird feeds on a corpse, lands on a tree and craps on it. I'm not joking). The prescribed punishment is 'no punishment' - at least the authors realised there are plenty of things beyond human control.

I must admit I'm a bit curious, though. How do you feel about traditional/orthodox philosophy vs. reformist/Gathic philosophy?

Zoroastrian orthodoxy seems to me to be rigid, controlling and excessively ritualised. Actually it's quite disheartening because it makes 'traditional' Zoroastrianism seem like every other monotheism on the planet - and that contaminates Gathic Zoroastrianism by pain of association. The Gathic variant sheds a lot of this away and focusses on getting back to the core message: GT, GW, GD; rather than allowing the worshipper to bog themselves down in the Magis' self-serving minutiae. That's who I suspect wrote the parts of the Avesta which are younger than the Gathas.

 

[Rival]

Does anyone know traditional Mazdayasnian greeting? I mean like the Jews have Shalom, the Hindus have Namaste and so on. I can't find a concrete one for Zarathustrian faith.

 

[Corthos]

Does anyone know traditional Mazdayasnian greeting? I mean like the Jews have Shalom, the Hindus have Namaste and so on. I can't find a concrete one for Zarathustrian faith.

Oh! This whole time I thought it was "Ushta", but your question prompted me to look into it deeper. What I've learned is that there are actually two greetings:

Ushta te = Greetings to you (singular).

Ushta ve = Greetings to all (plural).

From what I've read across in multiple sites, the word "Ushta" itself is generally regarded as "radiant happiness," though some think it means "radiant light." Here's an example:

# 192) Q: In Zoroastrian sites I see the term "ushta te". What does it mean and how is it pronounced?

A: Well Ushta (pronounced ooshta) is one of the more controversial terms. Instead of taking you through a byzantine discussion of different
philological analyses and interpretations, I will state that ushta either means a state of dawning or awakening, which implies bliss, or it is a state of wishing for something . Since ush means dawn and its radiant light and wish comes from the root ish, and ta is a suffix that can be transilated as THE
or THIS , implying a state of, many of us prefer to translate it as radiant light, radiant awakening, aradiant dawn.

In Iran, since the word was always with the blisss of being enlightened, it is also translated often as happiness or a combination, such as radiant happiness. Some consider this word as a state of Beautitude. Ushta te can thus mean An Awakening to Radiant Light for you, or a Dawn of Radiant Light for you. If the you is plural, than it is ushta ve. Te is pronounced teh and ve as veh. So, ushta te!

http://www.tenets.zoroastrian-fire-temple.com/discussions_37.html

 

[Rival]

Ushta te = Greetings to you (singular).

Ushta ve = Greetings to all (plural).

I love this. It is so Indo-European. In pretty much all of the Romance languages and some Germanic ones, they still sound so alike:

Romanian: Tu, voi
Italian:Tu, voi
French: Tu, vous
English: Thou, you
German; Du, sie, etc (they have plenty)

 

[Rival]

I love Gatha 5: 1-2​

O false gods beware,
the family, the community, and the fellowship,
all pray to the Wise God
for bliss in the manner I do,
and they say: May we be Your messengers
to control those who are Your antagonists.

The Wise God, an ally through good mind
and a good friend through the glorious righteousness,
has responded to them:
"We have chosen the good and progressive serenity for you."
(And they say) "May it be ours!" ​

 

[Aupmanyav]

Ushta is related to Usha, Eos, etc., dawn, awakening.

 

[Firemorphic]

Ahuramazda bless you!

This thread is to post random musings on the faith, favourites pieces of Scripture and various ideas you might have. Philosophic discussion welcome as well as minor questions. A little Mazdayasnian tea party, if you will.

Woah Rival, great thread idea. I had no idea you were interested in Zoroastrianism (well, at some point). It's close to me personally.

 

[Firemorphic]

From the Ahunuvaiti Gatha:

(10.) Then truly cometh the blow of destruction upon Untruth; While those of good renown shall be received in the promised abode, The blessed abode of the Good Mind, of Truth, and of the Wise Lord.

(11.) O ye mortals, mark these commandments, The commandments the Wise Lord has given for happiness and for pain: Long suffering for the doer of Evil, and bliss for the follower of Truth, The illumination of salvation for the Righteous ever after.

 

[Firemorphic]

From the Spenta Mainyu Gatha:

(3.) O Benevolent, Omniscient Mazda! To the man understanding Thy Message Thou dost bestow the profound treasure of Thy Teachings; That which Thou hast established through Truth! With an intelligence inspired by the Good Mind, Verily, one becomes worthy of Thee, O Mazda!
(4.) Those whose minds move to uplifting thoughts And those others whose minds turn to what is base, Their words and deeds will reflect their thoughts; For their choices will follow their sentiments. Their ends will be different, as Thy Wisdom declares.
(5.) Let those who know how to rule well, and not the evil rulers, rule us! Let them rule us with wisdom - rule us with skill O Piety! O Thou, bring humanity to perfection, and give hallowed blessing for its future life! Let man be active, zealously caring for his land and creatures so that they may flourish.
(6.) For Armaity, the holy spirit of Rightmindedness, with the power of determined thought, Shall bless us with peace, prosperity and vigor of spirit. For her, did Ahura Mazda make the plants grow, through Truth's law of Nature, At the time of the origination of Life.
(7.) O ye, who would be bound by the Good Mind, and strive to spread the Truth, O ye, who desire to sustain the Holy Cause, Suppress all anger and violence, Abandon all ill-will and strife! Such benevolent men shall be in Thy Abode, O Ahura.

 

[FirstandAmistad]

I'm not a really a Zoroastrian, but after my de-conversion from Christianity some years ago, I found a powerful draw to Zoroastrianism and delved into the Gathas and some other writings. It felt familiar, but resonated more strongly with me than Christianity had. I have since drifted towards agnostic animism/paganism. I revere specific deities, though, and Ahura Mazda is one of the ones I hold the highest respect for (along with several Celtic and Olympian deities).

The simple mantra of "Good words. Good thoughts. Good deeds." resonates very strongly with me along with the simplicity and inherit truth (I feel) in it. I've always deeply respected the focus on being a compassionate and honest person, and even though I don't believe in divine reward/punishment, being judged based on one's deeds and character makes far more sense to me than simply believing a specific doctrine (no offense intended).