How do you have 'The Conversation'?

[YmirGF]

Long story short, I have a friend who is turning 66 in August and I'm already noticing that she is "missing" things, forgets things, repeats herself and does not listen.

Her husband and I have discussed this but he flat out said, "Oh, she will never go to the doctor for this. She knows! (Something is wrong, or not quite right, at the very least). The other night I got a text saying, "I tripped over the dog. Sprained ankle." So, the next day, I was visiting her as she dramatically moved around and at one point I told her, "I am worried about you. You didn't remember the password you used for five years yesterday and got frustrated when you couldn't remember. Hon, you need to see your doctor about this!" Without skipping a beat she said, matter of factly, "Why would I do that, it's just a sprain." I looked at her like she had just arrived from another planet. I said, "I'm not talking about your ankle." Her response is what put my senses reeling. "What are you worried about then? I'm fine."

I said, "I'm sorry I brought it up." and she just looked... confused. Defiant, but clearly not really sure what was going on. It was a very weird experience.

The only reason I bring this up is due to my activities I am in a unique counselling situation where I talk to other men in dire straights talking about very serious problems affecting them. So, I know the communication problem is not on my side of this equation with my friend. Her husband is unresponsive and my fear is that he is just planning to ship her off to "a home" eventually. Do I just stand by and do nothing and watch her brain turn to mush?

There other tell-tale signs are stand out in that she is extremely negative about, well, pretty much anything and everything. She also had this weird affectation in the form of coughing. How to describe. The cough itself is real enough, but mid way, she goes into this theatric exhibition that is literally screaming "Look at me!" So, a real cough, but one that she has learned to milk to the Nth degree. (You would have to see her do it to fully grasp what I am getting at. I've never seen another person do a cough as she does. Not even close. And wait for it... ... there is nothing the doctors can do about it. *sigh*


Any advice would be great, but it did feel good getting this off my chest. The problem is it's not possible to help a person who does not want help. So how do you tell someone that you think they should be checked out for dementia (or summin'). (My thinking is test for dementia and the real culprit will show itself to a trained proffessional in pretty short order.)

 

[ChristineM]

Quite honestly i don't think there is anything you can do unless she decides for herself to see the doctor. Or her husband makes the call.

Frustrating i know, im in a similar situation with a schizophrenic so i know just how you feel.

I'm not sure where you are but it it's the UK maybe a call to citizens advice may help you

 

[SalixIncendium]

I can only tell you how I would feel if I was in her shoes. Do with it what you will.

If I had a disease for which I knew there was no cure, it would be my decision, especially if I was aware of it and was lucid enough to make that decision, whether or not I wanted to seek treatment.

While there are medicines that can help slow the progress (with mixed results), Alzheimers and dementia will continue to progress. If I don't want to go to the doctor or seek counseling, that would be my choice, and I would take exception to others shoving the disease in my face and constantly suggesting that I seek treatment. It's ultimately my life and my choice what should be done with it.

 

[YmirGF]

I can only tell you how I would feel if I was in her shoes. Do with it what you will.

If I had a disease for which I knew there was no cure, it would be my decision, especially if I was aware of it and was lucid enough to make that decision, whether or not I wanted to seek treatment.

While there are medicines that can help slow the progress (with mixed results), Alzheimers and dementia will continue to progress. If I don't want to go to the doctor or seek counseling, that would be my choice, and I would take exception to others shoving the disease in my face and constantly suggesting that I seek treatment. It's ultimately my life and my choice what should be done with it.

Hmmm. Dementia with dignity, as it were? In reality, it is none of my business, but it is hard to watch someone I care about losing it. Maybe, at my age, I should just be get used to the fact that some of the people I know are not going to get very nice outcomes.

 

[Callisto]

If her husband agrees with you then suggest he speak to her doctor, this is no different if some other health problem was suspected. The doctor knows her medical profile and, even before examining her for dementia, can tell if there may be other possible reasons for her memory loss as well as give some advice on how to proceed.

If it's dementia, he is going to need support as the diagnosis also heavily impacts the people who care for the person and it takes it toll. The patient not wanting to accept it is just the start of obstacles that escalate and make it increasingly difficult for those who have to care for them. Quite often it's finding ways to coax the person to something without them realizing what it is. So doing nothing because the wife may be in denial will make things worse for both of them in the long run. Plus he will have to face some hard truths himself, like the possibility he won't (always) be able to care for her at home or that she will out live him, either way he'll need to make plans for her care (a nursing home) regardless of what either would prefer. I had friends in this situation, it was very sad and messy because the husband was in denial and ornery (in part due to dementia) and the wife was in way over her head and couldn't do what needed to be done. It was rough when she died and he was forced into a home.

 

[Father Heathen]

My condolences and sympathies. My father had dementia before he died. It's rough. He thought I was his long dead brother and asked me to care for some nonexistent dogs.

 

[YmirGF]

Thanks for your comments, folks. It is rough dealing with her because I never know what she is going to be on about on any given day.

For example, last week we went up to get her new computer. It was a white knuckle ride, to be sure.

1. She blew past a group of cyclists at 90 kmh on a quiet country back road because they were in her way. She was yelling at them at we went past.
2. 20 minutes later she cut off a bus causing it to brake hard while making a turn directly across the oncoming bus's path. A cop would have loved to have seen that one.
3. When we left the computer store she decided to simply drive up and over the curb and down onto the street, rather than use an exit a few feet away.
4. Drove off the road for 100 feet while she was fumbling with something on her console.

That was just a single trip.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Thanks for your comments, folks. It is rough dealing with her because I never know what she is going to be on about on any given day.

For example, last week we went up to get her new computer. It was a white knuckle ride, to be sure.

1. She blew past a group of cyclists at 90 kmh on a quiet country back road because they were in her way. She was yelling at them at we went past.
2. 20 minutes later she cut off a bus causing it to brake hard while making a turn directly across the oncoming bus's path. A cop would have loved to have seen that one.
3. When we left the computer store she decided to simply drive up and over the curb and down onto the street, rather than use an exit a few feet away.
4. Drove off the road for 100 feet while she was fumbling with something on her console.

That was just a single trip.

Maybe she shouldn't be driving anymore. Seems to me she's a danger to herself and others.

I'm not sure what kind of a relationship you have with the husband, but perhaps an intervention is in order when she's lucid.

 

[Vinayaka]

Long story short, I have a friend who is turning 66 in August and I'm already noticing that she is "missing" things, forgets things, repeats herself and does not listen.

Her husband and I have discussed this but he flat out said, "Oh, she will never go to the doctor for this. She knows! (Something is wrong, or not quite right, at the very least). The other night I got a text saying, "I tripped over the dog. Sprained ankle." So, the next day, I was visiting her as she dramatically moved around and at one point I told her, "I am worried about you. You didn't remember the password you used for five years yesterday and got frustrated when you couldn't remember. Hon, you need to see your doctor about this!" Without skipping a beat she said, matter of factly, "Why would I do that, it's just a sprain." I looked at her like she had just arrived from another planet. I said, "I'm not talking about your ankle." Her response is what put my senses reeling. "What are you worried about then? I'm fine."

I said, "I'm sorry I brought it up." and she just looked... confused. Defiant, but clearly not really sure what was going on. It was a very weird experience.

The only reason I bring this up is due to my activities I am in a unique counselling situation where I talk to other men in dire straights talking about very serious problems affecting them. So, I know the communication problem is not on my side of this equation with my friend. Her husband is unresponsive and my fear is that he is just planning to ship her off to "a home" eventually. Do I just stand by and do nothing and watch her brain turn to mush?

There other tell-tale signs are stand out in that she is extremely negative about, well, pretty much anything and everything. She also had this weird affectation in the form of coughing. How to describe. The cough itself is real enough, but mid way, she goes into this theatric exhibition that is literally screaming "Look at me!" So, a real cough, but one that she has learned to milk to the Nth degree. (You would have to see her do it to fully grasp what I am getting at. I've never seen another person do a cough as she does. Not even close. And wait for it... ... there is nothing the doctors can do about it. *sigh*


Any advice would be great, but it did feel good getting this off my chest. The problem is it's not possible to help a person who does not want help. So how do you tell someone that you think they should be checked out for dementia (or summin'). (My thinking is test for dementia and the real culprit will show itself to a trained proffessional in pretty short order.)

I am in a very similar situation ... a friend who doesn't think he needs help. He's rather deaf, and misses a lot of conversations. His pride in his own health takes over, yet his diet, and lack of exercise, and cognitive abilities are receding. So other than empathy for your situation, I have nothing. But I am looking forward to the feedback you get.

 

[Callisto]

This may be something relevant to your friend's condition. There is a variety of prescription and over the counter medications that can contribute to memory loss after prolonged use and can have a negative impact on aging brains. Very common drugs like Benadryl and other allergy meds, nerve pain medication, and sleep aides. So much so, they're not prescribed to geriatric patients. It may be helpful for her husband to look into her current and past prescriptions and at all over the counter drugs she uses or had used for years. Even if the person no longer takes them, the damage comes from cumulative long term use.

• Common anticholinergic drugs like Benadryl linked to increased dementia risk - Harvard Medical School

 

[YmirGF]

This may be something relevant to your friend's condition. There is a variety of prescription and over the counter medications that can contribute to memory loss after prolonged use and can have a negative impact on aging brains. Very common drugs like Benadryl and other allergy meds, nerve pain medication, and sleep aides. So much so, they're not prescribed to geriatric patients. It may be helpful for her husband to look into her current and past prescriptions and at all over the counter drugs she uses or had used for years. Even if the person no longer takes them, the damage comes from cumulative long term use.

• Common anticholinergic drugs like Benadryl linked to increased dementia risk - Harvard Medical School

WOW. She isn't on any real medications, I am aware of, but always has Nyquil in the house. And Benadryl too. Of all the things for you to mention.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

WOW. She isn't on any real medications, I am aware of, but always has Nyquil in the house. And Benadryl too. Of all the things for you to mention.

Benadryl is very bad

 

[Callisto]

Benadryl is very bad

Benadryl is diphenhydramine which is often what's in over the counter sleep aides. So someone without allergies but has insomnia may not realize they're at the same risk.

 

[Callisto]

WOW. She isn't on any real medications, I am aware of, but always has Nyquil in the house. And Benadryl too. Of all the things for you to mention.

It seems easy for any of us to not be aware of risks associated with things we assume are safe just because they're common. :\

 

[YmirGF]

An Update: One thing I had learned in my work with men in trouble with the law is to confront them whenever they come up with a lie, deflection, half-truth... etc. It's a very "in your face" therapy and I will often call, "BS" on the guys when they are being evasive. The problem is, I was doing this with my friend too. *sigh*

I have since cut back, significantly, on correcting her when she is wrong (which is most of the time) and just go with whatever she is rambling on about at any given moment.

The weirdest part is dealing with her oscillating comprehension. Likewise, if she says more than two sentences, she begins to mash words together, and it is obvious she is frustrated when that occurs.

It is SO HARD not to say, "I know, honey, you have told me that same thing three times, in the last five minutes."

 

[exchemist]

Thanks for your comments, folks. It is rough dealing with her because I never know what she is going to be on about on any given day.

For example, last week we went up to get her new computer. It was a white knuckle ride, to be sure.

1. She blew past a group of cyclists at 90 kmh on a quiet country back road because they were in her way. She was yelling at them at we went past.
2. 20 minutes later she cut off a bus causing it to brake hard while making a turn directly across the oncoming bus's path. A cop would have loved to have seen that one.
3. When we left the computer store she decided to simply drive up and over the curb and down onto the street, rather than use an exit a few feet away.
4. Drove off the road for 100 feet while she was fumbling with something on her console.

That was just a single trip.

If she is really obstinate you might consider reporting her to the police as unfit to drive. That might force her to get a medical opinion. Of course she would hate you for it, at least for a bit, but tough love is sometimes the only way. Reading your story I find myself thinking about her husband. He is in for a really rough ride and will need all the help he can get. Best to grasp the nettle I think. And, objectively, she’s quite likely to kill someone if nobody stops her driving. And that would be both a tragedy for the victim and hell for both husband and wife.

 

[YmirGF]

Yikes. We had a "blow up" yesterday and things got VERY tense. If you can imagine it, the blow up was over play Diablo III. I had helped her the day before with the end of season 28 that occurred on last Sunday at 5:00 pm. This can be quite time-consuming integrating all the new items from the season into your existing inventory. She also said she had started a hardcore character to play for the week. I have told Shelley many, many times now I am no longer interested in playing hardcore (when if your character "dies" it is dead and gone. Back to square one.) Since I did her house-keeping in record time, I spent time building the hardcore character, for something to do.

Later that afternoon, Shelley called and said she had already gotten her brand-new character killed and had started a new "SOFTCORE" character. Aside from the fact, she already had a viable mature character, in her brain, she wanted a new one, for some reason. I laughed and told her I was busy and would help her in the morning -- which I did. We got her new character to Level 70 (where the game opens up) and she was dithering in town for some reason.

It was so frustrating waiting for her to finish, whatever she was doing, that moments after she hit 70, I announced I had things to do and "CYA later".
That's it. With that I logged off and got up and made lunch and never thought much of it. Well, you can imagine my surprise when Shelley calls about 2 hours later and is hopping mad because I was so rude to her. Say, what? She was spitting nails at how mean I had been to her and that she didn't deserve this kind of treatment and I better show her more respect... yadda, yadda, yadda. I was extremely surprised by this because her response was SO disproportionate from the events. She even hung up. I uttered a few choice words and began to wonder how this was going to go.

A couple of hours later, I was getting ready to make dinner, when her husband, Gordy, drives into my driveway. Gordy NEVER comes up to chat unless something is important. In retrospect, I am so glad he did come up and talk to me about his wife. He verified that she was absolutely foaming mad over the whole thing and felt I had abandoned her. *sigh* Gordy and I had A GREAT TALK and I discovered WE ARE ON THE SAME PAGE. This event, for this point alone, made the whole ordeal worthwhile. I had no idea HE had my back. He was telling me that I should call her and apologize and that would mean a lot. This gets better.

You see, as I was talking to Gordy in my driveway, I saw Shelley struggling up the hill. Shelley was walking? I commented to Gordy that was plain weird. Why would she not drive up? I tried to mollify her when she was within earshot, but SHE WAS NOT THE PERSON I KNEW. She even looked a bit different. Confused. Sick.

Gordy, had been saying moments before that BOTH of us have to be cool around her because ANYTHING can set her off, but more seriously, this whole thing with her was probably going to get worse. He also verified that she literally "guzzles" down NyQuil to help her sleep. So, she blew past me, got into the truck with Gordy and I thanked Gordy for coming by again and said, "CYA, Shell!" She just glared at me. It was more than a bit spooky.

Last, but not least, I was sitting on RF at about 8:00 pm when the phone rang. It was Shelley.
"Oh, Christ!" I thought, "Here we go again!" Only to find her sweet and pleasant, inquiring if I was coming down for a visit in the morning.

I assured her, that IF she wanted me to come down, I would be happy to come down. We hung up on a happy note. I put the phone down, made sure it was off, and burst out laughing while shaking my head. You cannot make this crap up. Any ideas or advice, folks?


A hugely important point I glossed over. Later, I was thinking about what would have happened if Shelley had struggled up the hill for a showdown and Gordy, say, had already driven off. He was, say, 2 or 3 minutes from leaving when Shelley came into view. The point is, with just Shelley and me in the driveway -- and her in total meltdown -- could have gone VERY, VERY badly. I'm so glad Gordy was there to defuse the issue.

 

[ChristineM]

Women eh???

I hope the morning goes well

 

[YmirGF]

Women eh???

I hope the morning goes well

I will be practicing walking on eggshells.

 

[JustGeorge]

Yikes. We had a "blow up" yesterday and things got VERY tense. If you can imagine it, the blow up was over play Diablo III. I had helped her the day before with the end of season 28 that occurred on last Sunday at 5:00 pm. This can be quite time-consuming integrating all the new items from the season into your existing inventory. She also said she had started a hardcore character to play for the week. I have told Shelley many, many times now I am no longer interested in playing hardcore (when if your character "dies" it is dead and gone. Back to square one.) Since I did her house-keeping in record time, I spent time building the hardcore character, for something to do.

Later that afternoon, Shelley called and said she had already gotten her brand-new character killed and had started a new "SOFTCORE" character. Aside from the fact, she already had a viable mature character, in her brain, she wanted a new one, for some reason. I laughed and told her I was busy and would help her in the morning -- which I did. We got her new character to Level 70 (where the game opens up) and she was dithering in town for some reason.

It was so frustrating waiting for her to finish, whatever she was doing, that moments after she hit 70, I announced I had things to do and "CYA later".
That's it. With that I logged off and got up and made lunch and never thought much of it. Well, you can imagine my surprise when Shelley calls about 2 hours later and is hopping mad because I was so rude to her. Say, what? She was spitting nails at how mean I had been to her and that she didn't deserve this kind of treatment and I better show her more respect... yadda, yadda, yadda. I was extremely surprised by this because her response was SO disproportionate from the events. She even hung up. I uttered a few choice words and began to wonder how this was going to go.

A couple of hours later, I was getting ready to make dinner, when her husband, Gordy, drives into my driveway. Gordy NEVER comes up to chat unless something is important. In retrospect, I am so glad he did come up and talk to me about his wife. He verified that she was absolutely foaming mad over the whole thing and felt I had abandoned her. *sigh* Gordy and I had A GREAT TALK and I discovered WE ARE ON THE SAME PAGE. This event, for this point alone, made the whole ordeal worthwhile. I had no idea HE had my back. He was telling me that I should call her and apologize and that would mean a lot. This gets better.

You see, as I was talking to Gordy in my driveway, I saw Shelley struggling up the hill. Shelley was walking? I commented to Gordy that was plain weird. Why would she not drive up? I tried to mollify her when she was within earshot, but SHE WAS NOT THE PERSON I KNEW. She even looked a bit different. Confused. Sick.

Gordy, had been saying moments before that BOTH of us have to be cool around her because ANYTHING can set her off, but more seriously, this whole thing with her was probably going to get worse. He also verified that she literally "guzzles" down NyQuil to help her sleep. So, she blew past me, got into the truck with Gordy and I thanked Gordy for coming by again and said, "CYA, Shell!" She just glared at me. It was more than a bit spooky.

Last, but not least, I was sitting on RF at about 8:00 pm when the phone rang. It was Shelley.
"Oh, Christ!" I thought, "Here we go again!" Only to find her sweet and pleasant, inquiring if I was coming down for a visit in the morning.

I assured her, that IF she wanted me to come down, I would be happy to come down. We hung up on a happy note. I put the phone down, made sure it was off, and burst out laughing while shaking my head. You cannot make this crap up. Any ideas or advice, folks?


A hugely important point I glossed over. Later, I was thinking about what would have happened if Shelley had struggled up the hill for a showdown and Gordy, say, had already driven off. He was, say, 2 or 3 minutes from leaving when Shelley came into view. The point is, with just Shelley and me in the driveway -- and her in total meltdown -- could have gone VERY, VERY badly. I'm so glad Gordy was there to defuse the issue.

What a difficult situation... good luck with those eggshells.