Ok well that is a partial answer I suppose, but then there is more than one Priesthood which claims to be the Melkizedek Priesthood eg Catholics, L.D.S
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If a person claiming to be Christ comes today, how do you know it is really *not* him?
- Thread starter danieldemol
- Start date
Jesus wanted the whole world to know about it.
rivers of blood and suffering of the nations
...
Christ revealed these words to me. Beloved daughter, what do you see? I see you glorious, Christ. "Now what do you see? I saw that He was holding humanity in His
right hand and I saw many people turning their backs on Christ. Then, before this Vision that shook me, He said to me: "Tell My children: all My children
see Me with the vision of the soul; some see Me in truth and others distort Me.
Intellectualism predominates in some of My children and they are limited to seeing and perceiving Me; others, due to their selfishness, place bonds between
their senses and their intellectuality, which do not separate and remain in sanity, dying every moment without allowing themselves to know Me. And they turn
their backs on Me because they find answers in science, in technology, in their personal deductions and hide from My Love, creating their own rules to justify
themselves to their brothers and sisters when they ask them about Me. My children do not see Me, nor are they able to see the reality they live in, due to the
fact that their conscience remains completely restless, agitated by what they selfishly desire for themselves.
Personal preferences keep them constantly critical of others, anger emanates from them when people around them are not what they want. They are irritable and
sensitive to everything and everything. Therefore, they are unable to be aware of the reality they live in and remain blind to what is beyond their reach.
These people do not see Me, nor do they see the reality of this moment, which is the decisive moment before they come face to face with themselves.
Tell them, My beloved, when the mind is silenced to return to My Truth, the mind is purified and thus the heart and senses. I offer man the blessing
of reasoning to free the soul from its bondage. A purified mind is wisdom and gives a man a pure heart. I use these people of pure heart to walk,
sharing My Word and My Revelations along the way, necessary for mankind to hear, see and feel within themselves the need to be with Me.
"Tell them, My beloved, that souls choose freely and that this Christ needs the full conscience of those who call themselves My children, My followers,
My disciples, My chosen ones, My priests, My consecrated ones. I need them all to awaken consciences and hearts dormant with indifference and hardened
by the ups and downs of bad behavior, sometimes by omission, and in others by personal convenience. The Divine Teacher continued to speak to me: "
...
Continue in video here
rivers of blood and suffering of the nations
...
Christ revealed these words to me. Beloved daughter, what do you see? I see you glorious, Christ. "Now what do you see? I saw that He was holding humanity in His
right hand and I saw many people turning their backs on Christ. Then, before this Vision that shook me, He said to me: "Tell My children: all My children
see Me with the vision of the soul; some see Me in truth and others distort Me.
Intellectualism predominates in some of My children and they are limited to seeing and perceiving Me; others, due to their selfishness, place bonds between
their senses and their intellectuality, which do not separate and remain in sanity, dying every moment without allowing themselves to know Me. And they turn
their backs on Me because they find answers in science, in technology, in their personal deductions and hide from My Love, creating their own rules to justify
themselves to their brothers and sisters when they ask them about Me. My children do not see Me, nor are they able to see the reality they live in, due to the
fact that their conscience remains completely restless, agitated by what they selfishly desire for themselves.
Personal preferences keep them constantly critical of others, anger emanates from them when people around them are not what they want. They are irritable and
sensitive to everything and everything. Therefore, they are unable to be aware of the reality they live in and remain blind to what is beyond their reach.
These people do not see Me, nor do they see the reality of this moment, which is the decisive moment before they come face to face with themselves.
Tell them, My beloved, when the mind is silenced to return to My Truth, the mind is purified and thus the heart and senses. I offer man the blessing
of reasoning to free the soul from its bondage. A purified mind is wisdom and gives a man a pure heart. I use these people of pure heart to walk,
sharing My Word and My Revelations along the way, necessary for mankind to hear, see and feel within themselves the need to be with Me.
"Tell them, My beloved, that souls choose freely and that this Christ needs the full conscience of those who call themselves My children, My followers,
My disciples, My chosen ones, My priests, My consecrated ones. I need them all to awaken consciences and hearts dormant with indifference and hardened
by the ups and downs of bad behavior, sometimes by omission, and in others by personal convenience. The Divine Teacher continued to speak to me: "
...
Continue in video here
I was not aware that Catholic Priests claimed to be of the Order Melchi-Zedek .. support for claim would be appreciated.
Regardless -- being of the Order Zedek was only part of the criteria.. you missed the "and" part of the identification process .. which will then be followed by more "tests"
.. Do these priests also claim to worship the Chief God of the Canaanite Pantheon .. "EL" .. and view YHWH .. a later son of EL .. as a demiurge of sorts ?
Saggath
Member
"If a person claiming to be Christ comes today, how do know it is really *not* him?"
I doubt I would be able to tell. But I would not worry too much anyway, because I would be more concerned about what he said, taught, and did, than his identity. If what he says and does is good, then I would like him and might adopt some of his teachings, regardless of who he is. (So if he is Christ, I'm safe, I've done the right thing, the salvatory thing.) If what he says and does is bad, then I doubt I would adopt his behavior. (So if he is not Christ, I wouldn't be led astray by following bad behavior.)
My focus would be on words and deeds rather than what someone claims to be, or on what some call "personality".
I doubt I would be able to tell. But I would not worry too much anyway, because I would be more concerned about what he said, taught, and did, than his identity. If what he says and does is good, then I would like him and might adopt some of his teachings, regardless of who he is. (So if he is Christ, I'm safe, I've done the right thing, the salvatory thing.) If what he says and does is bad, then I doubt I would adopt his behavior. (So if he is not Christ, I wouldn't be led astray by following bad behavior.)
My focus would be on words and deeds rather than what someone claims to be, or on what some call "personality".
Yes .. but how to tell the good word from the bad .. the "word of God" as opposed to that of the Chaos Dragon. kudo's for separating the "identity" from The Word .. how do you tell the one from the other ..
For example .. in the classic "What would Jesus do" Question ---
A) Kill the child for the Sin of the Idolatrous Parents
B) Do not kill the child for the sin of the Parents - Each is to be punished according to his own sin
Obviously - and correctly we are going to pick B --- right ! (or at least I hope so) " Let ye without sin cast the first rock " .. Easy Peasy right ?! .. No .. Wrong .. turns out is not so easy peasy. what do we do with the command of the other God ? .. and can we be absolutely sure that the Command of God A is not the God of Jesus .. as perhaps Jesus was only referring to adultery .. and not other sins.
What to do with the command of God A .. .. how do you know this God is not the God you should follow for salvation .. this sacrifice the way to pass through the pearly gates.
Now .. this was a easy one to sort through .. a big distinction between the two commands .. what about if it is about a more grey issue .. Abortion for example --- now find the God of Jesus speaking .. and justify your selection and provide the other Gods word on the issue.
and last .. explain why you have turned in to a raging polytheist .. or at least henotheist .. believing in many Gods but worshiping only one .. hoping it is the right one
'Catholic priests, in the doctrine of the Catholic Church, are priests inasmuch as they participate(CCC 1547) in the one priesthood of Christ according to the order of Melchizedek due to their ordination.'
Source: Priesthood of Melchizedek - Wikipedia
I'm honestly not sure where you got this more specific criteria from.Regardless -- being of the Order Zedek was only part of the criteria.. you missed the "and" part of the identification process .. which will then be followed by more "tests"
Thanks for the reference ... the more specific criteria comes from understanding who the God of Jesus is. If you want to know it is Jesus .. then you must know what "The Word" of God is .. and you need to know who that God is .. as in knowing the name of that God ... The God of Jesus .. and be able to distinguish the word of Jesus from the words of other Gods .. and the word of man - Ha Satan.. How are you going to distinguish betweeen the word of Jesus and that of a false prophet if can't distinguish between the two .. this being a big problem for all who believe the entire Bible is the word of a particular God .. the fundamentalist can not understand Jesus on the basis of not knowing what the word of the God of Jesus is ... often supplanting it with the word of Paul .. in strange deflection.
"The Word" of John 1 is a quite terrible and intentional mistranslation of "The Logos" .. Jesus is "The Logos" = the emmisary between God and Man .. the physical representation of God's Word.
So if you want to know who Jesus is you must know what the word of God is. .. and thus you need to know the name of that God - know which God in the Bible is "The Father" "Hallowed be thy name" .. a name which you are having some trouble understanding and/or the need to know the name or be able to distinguish this God from the other Gods of the Bible.
Who is the God of the Order of Melchi-Zedek ? and how is it that you find knowing the God of Jesus not requisite to knowing Jesus ?
I'm battling Covid-19 at the moment. But what i basically understood from your post is;
1. The Bible is not the word of one God.
2. As priest of Melchizedek Jesus would have worshiped the God of Melchizedek.
3. I was not clear from your post but I got from googling;
'The god whom Melchizedek serves as priest is “El ʿElyon,” again a name of Canaanite origin, probably designating the high god of their pantheon.'
Source: Melchizedek | Story, Meaning, Priesthood, & Bible Verse
It appears to me that your belief here is a mix of modern scholarship and Biblical teaching.
I guess that settles that the return of Jesus must also be a worshipper of El Elyon from your perspective, although I note that other Christians may not share your premises.
Thanks for sharing and apologies if I've misunderstood anything.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Oh, Allah's abrogation again. Of course, he has full right to his words. He can change them as and when it suits him.
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Sorry I somehow missed your post. You sound kind of omnist with your take the good and leave the bad attitude towards any and all Christ claimants.
I agree to that but note that taking the good teachings and ignoring the bad teachings is not permitted in the Baha'i faith where one has to accept *all* the teachings as infallible to be a member.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Sure. If you hate God then not only you but at least three or four of your generations are going to hell. Very clearly stated in the Commandments. He is jealous God.A) Kill the child for the Sin of the Idolatrous Parents
my condolences on the flu ... pretty good summary hiting many of the major points.. Correct that the vast majority of christians will not have the faintest idea what I am talking about
.. but it is not their perspective I am interested in .. What I want to understand is what the Cannanite citizen living in Jerusalem around the time of Abe ~1800 BC thinks .. what the Israelite in ~1000 BC round the time of David thinks .. and last what the early first century Christian thought. Zedek is the Patron God of Jerusalem, a Canaanite city at the time of Abe -- a twin god of Justice and Righteousness. "EL" .. is the Chief God of the Canaanites .. EL Elyon is an epithet for EL .. God Most High .. EL - Oliun God Supreme -- and there are many others for this God .. who is also chief God of the Babylonian Pantheon .. Enlil and in fact most every people at this time venerated this fellow as the Most High God .. .. head of a divine pantheon . .. called The Assembly of EL in Psalm 82 800 years later.
El is everyone's high God in 1800 BC .. not just the Canaanites ... not only Abraham .. who worships the most high -sharing bread and wine with the Canaanite Priest King of Jerusalem .. Melchi-Zedek. ..
"There are many Gods in the Bible" - and certainly not the word of one God as all the people in the story from Abe down to the end of the Israelites in 720 BC believe in many Gods .. to a person .. in cluding Abe and Moses who ask that only one of these Gods be worshiped .. an ask which fell on deaf ears .. all the people raging Polytheists from start to finish.. YHWH worshiped alongside consort Asherah the Queen of heaven and daughter Anat .. when you were finished with the male and/or female prostitues... In the Bible there are voices of many Gods and many people ... is a compilation of many different stories over thousands of years ... .. some of these stories now glommed together in a book we call the Bible ..such that our Job .. is to sort out one voice from another.. separate the voice of the God of Jesus .. from the other voices.
For example .. one voice says "Kill the child for the sin of the Idolatrous parents down 3rd and 4th generation .. Let us call this one the God of Collective Punishment .. a xehophobic Genocidal maniac with the most nasty and petty of human characteristics .. a flip flopper and trickster on top of this mess .. thename of this God of the Bible is "Jealous" .. Exodus 34 .. and this God has a set of 10 commands completely different than the 10 commands most people associate with the 10 commands.
another Voice says -- "Do not kill the child for the sin of the parents .. each is to be punished according to their own sin .. this a different God that the two-face demiurge Jealous.
We have the voice of another God in the Garden of Eden -- and remember .. it is not what you or I think that matters .. but what the person reading the story in 900 BC thought .. who was the Snake to this person .. a character that "EVERYONE" reading or hearing the Story knew .. the same God of the Wisdom Literature of Solomon .. also represented in Proverbs and Ecclesiastes .. "Sophia" .. a Wise Dragon .. and one of the primordial ones .. later imitated by BAAL and YHWH.. .. YHWH tries to dress up as a Dragon at one point..
Then there is the voice of the creator God .. who regrets his mistake .. clearly not an all powerfull ... all knowing .. perfect entity .. and we have the other nasty God in the Garden .. again an anthropormorphic character who for sport ... puts two humans who are innocent like a baby .. knowing not good from Evil in the ring with a God .. then punishes them for losing this unwinnable battle ..
So yes .. there are all kinds of voices in the Bible .. one says kill the child .. the other says don't .. this one of countless examples where there are two or more contradictory or conflicting voices .. but voices the Israelites understood .. and knew.
The problem we have in front of us .. is that we don't know nearly as well as the 900 BC Israelite .. who the different voices are and how to separate one from the other from which God. Thus .. how are you going to know the voice of Jesus when he calls .. if you dont know that voice .. if you do not know which voice is saying what .. if you do not know the name of the God speaking .. Don't know whether this comes from the God of Jesus - as does every word from the Logos - or one of the numerous other voices .. both God and men.
and so .. what is the criteria ?? Obviously we need to know which voice in the Bible is that of the God of Jesus. Fortunately we are told he is a priest of the order Melchi-Zedek .. and we know who the "Most High" of that priesthood is.. thanks to modern scholarship.. biblical archaeology and history.. which is why the Encyclopedia Britannica .. under "Abraham" will tell you that his God was "EL"
EL being this Guy .. Psalm 82 -- NET Bible Translation ..
82 YHWH stands in[b] the assembly of El;[c] in the midst of the gods[d] he renders judgment.[e]
So you have a bunch of Gods assembled together in heaven ..... El is the head God of the Pantheon .. the Twin Gods Zedek at the right hand of "The Father" twin Gods of Righteous and Justice .. from Jerusalem the city of peace .. so "The princes of Peace". YHWH endes up denouncing and then defeating the other "Sons of God" .. YHWH being one of those sons .. winning the position of Chief God on Earth .. EL remaining Chief God in the heavens.
footnote c .. Explains who the people who sang this song in the temple of YHWH understood EL to be.
"The phrase עֲדַת אֵל (ʿadat ʾel, “assembly of El”) appears only here in the OT. (1) Some understand “El” to refer to God himself. In this case he is pictured presiding over his own heavenly assembly. (2) Others take אֵל as a superlative here (“God stands in the great assembly”), as in Pss 36:6 and 80:10. (3) The present translation assumes this is a reference to the Canaanite high god El, who presided over the Canaanite divine assembly. (See Isa 14:13, where El’s assembly is called “the stars of El.”) In the Ugaritic myths the phrase ʿdt ʾilm refers to the “assembly of the gods,” who congregate in King Kirtu’s house, where Baal asks El to bless Kirtu’s house (see G. R. Driver, Canaanite Myths and Legends, 91). If the Canaanite divine assembly is referred to here in Ps 82:1, then the psalm must be understood as a bold polemic against Canaanite religion. Israel’s God invades El’s assembly, denounces its gods as failing to uphold justice, and announces their coming demise. For an interpretation of the psalm along these lines, see W. VanGemeren, “Psalms,” EBC 5:533-36."
Saggath
Member
Which is why I do not fit in well with any religious establishment. People who form religious groups, including myself, require all members to believe in a certain set of beliefs. I can accept some beliefs in all religions, but not all beliefs in any religion.
I do not believe in "perfect" messiahs, prophets, saints, or other incarnates; therefore, I do discriminate between their various teachings.
As for good and bad, in reaction to another post, I wasn't referring to exhortations to slay enemies and fight, nor fasting and self-flagellation. Those might all be good or bad. But what I was intending were things like ridding self of anger, wrath, greed (coveting), resentment, self-pity - developing compassion, patience, understanding (of others' points of view) - and what are universally considered good deeds - caring for the poor, hungry, afflicted.
Not sure why you are repeating back to me the command of God named "jealous" that I just posted .. as if this is new information .. and then making no comment in relation to the topic based on that info ?
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Even Jesus was very jealous. See the way he cursed the cities:
"Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you! And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? No, you will be thrown down to Hades! For if the miracles done among you had been done in Sodom, it would have continued to this day. But I tell you, it will be more bearable for the region of Sodom on the day of judgment than for you!"
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
"Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you! And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? No, you will be thrown down to Hades! For if the miracles done among you had been done in Sodom, it would have continued to this day. But I tell you, it will be more bearable for the region of Sodom on the day of judgment than for you!"
Matthew 11:20-30
Matthew is/was an anonymous narrative:
" The gospel is traditionally attributed to the Apostle Matthew. According to predominant scholarly views, it was written in the last quarter of the first century by an anonymous Jew familiar with technical legal aspects of scripture. "
en.wikipedia.org
Regards
Matthew 11:20-30
Matthew is/was an anonymous narrative:
" The gospel is traditionally attributed to the Apostle Matthew. According to predominant scholarly views, it was written in the last quarter of the first century by an anonymous Jew familiar with technical legal aspects of scripture. "
Gospel of Matthew - Wikipedia
Regards
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Well, the Bible NT passage shows me that Jesus was no less jealous than his father. Like father, like son.I have no clue what your point is .. Jesus was Jealous >> vundarbar !
No it doesn't .. the passage states nothing of the sort .. painfully (@##$%) .. Jesus is talking about how stupid the people are .. having been shown the glory of God .. seen with own eyes .. and still not heeding "The Word"
The God of Jesus is not Lord YHWH .. nor is it Lord Jealous .. and even if Jesus was shown to be Jealous over something in Mat .. that would not change this Biblical fact .. as per your wiki link .. which -- if any good .. would most certainly mirror the Catholic Encyclopedia ands standard theological theory .. while some of Matt can be accepted as the word of "The Father" --- this author also engages in some "Pious Fraud" .. using all of Mark as a source document .. except a few passages derogatory to Jesus or the disciples .. a little .. "Artistic License" in his second edition with edits, addition and ommission .. in his re-write of the original story .. and thus .. and on that basis .. we could claim the hands of the Devil .. should you have shown a passage where Jesus was Jealous .. .. but that you did not manage ... so argument was not necessary to crucify position .. and in this case a false claim to be sure.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
That is OK, but see the curse. Are we supposed to kill those who have a difference of opinion with us?