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If I really think about it, I think I'm an agnostic...
- Thread starter Marie75
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For me, it's knowing that I believe what I believe, but I ultimately can't prove (or have others disprove) it. In a way, it keeps me grounded in reality.
Agnosticism is pretty much a matter of honesty far as I understand the matter.
It doesn't mean that it is (or should be) determinant, though.
It doesn't mean that it is (or should be) determinant, though.
Little Darwin
Member
I think of agnostic as one of the three major divisions in spiritual thought.
Theist... there is definitely a god (monotheist) or many gods (polytheist)
Atheist... there is definitely not a god.
Agnostic... the rest of us.
I am an agnostic who thinks that there may be a plan behind the patterns seen in the universe at many levels, but am not convinced that the argument for a planner is any stronger than the argument that things are simply as they are without an entity guiding the system(s).
I do vacillate in my views... However, even when I lean toward the theist view, I find that no religion seems to have identified a god (or gods) compatible with the universe as I see it. This still keeps my views more in line with agnostics than theists or atheists.
Theist... there is definitely a god (monotheist) or many gods (polytheist)
Atheist... there is definitely not a god.
Agnostic... the rest of us.
I am an agnostic who thinks that there may be a plan behind the patterns seen in the universe at many levels, but am not convinced that the argument for a planner is any stronger than the argument that things are simply as they are without an entity guiding the system(s).
I do vacillate in my views... However, even when I lean toward the theist view, I find that no religion seems to have identified a god (or gods) compatible with the universe as I see it. This still keeps my views more in line with agnostics than theists or atheists.
So you see Agnosticism as mutually exclusive to Theism and Atheism?
Most Agnostics seem to also be the one or the other.
Little Darwin
Member
I do think that agnostics typically lean to one direction or the other, but to claim to be either theist or atheist (in my mind) is to say you no longer have any doubts, and then the term agnostic no longer seems to apply.
Personally, I don't see any way to justify "I am an agnostic, and believe there is/is not a god" any more than, "I am a vegetarian, I eat nothing but plants and fish." but I know that there are people that will make those claims.
Personally, I don't see any way to justify "I am an agnostic, and believe there is/is not a god" any more than, "I am a vegetarian, I eat nothing but plants and fish." but I know that there are people that will make those claims.
Jupimartian
Ex-Protestant Christian
I've seen the distinction between gnostic and agnostic--sure and not sure about your a/theism.
Personally, I'm agnostic atheist because my best guess is that there are no gods but I can't disprove the existence of gods, either. I don't know all there is in the universe.
Agnosticism is about not claiming to have a way to know. As in, know for certain.
Atheism and theism are about belief, or lack of same.
They are fairly independent from each other, actually. Although I will grant that agnosticism isn't always important or even significant in practical terms for the agnostic itself.
Secret Chief
nirvana is samsara
Yes, why do atheism and agnosticism get so regularly tied together?
They don't have to be. But theists don't often feel like admitting to doubt, at least not to the degree that it takes to make a point of self-applying a label. Even one of so little consequence as "agnostic".
And, I suspect that there is still enough of a stigma to the word "atheist" that some people just prefer to either present themselves as a perhaps more palatable "agnostics". And I guess some people honestly believe or feel that somehow aren't either atheist or theistic as well, although I personally see that as basically an impossibility for humans.
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I usually refer to myself as agnostic simply because I believe I will never know what's the truth. Or to explain better, I don't believe that there is an absolute truth.
I believe that it is possible to everybody (or religion or lack thereof) to be a bit right.
I'm personally not a theist. But who am I to affirm with certainty that there isn't a God? And the fact that I don't think we will ever know exactly how things work, makes me a agnostic.
I may be way off on the definition, though...
PS: I am very inclined to Buddhism teachings because the idea of trying to be a better being and returning positive things to the world, with compassion and so on, is a good way to do things.
I believe that it is possible to everybody (or religion or lack thereof) to be a bit right.
I'm personally not a theist. But who am I to affirm with certainty that there isn't a God? And the fact that I don't think we will ever know exactly how things work, makes me a agnostic.
I may be way off on the definition, though...
PS: I am very inclined to Buddhism teachings because the idea of trying to be a better being and returning positive things to the world, with compassion and so on, is a good way to do things.
I am agnostic too and it's mostly because I don't think there is any one truth, in this world anyway. All the religions compete with each other and say they are the only right way and I totally stay away from that line of thought. There is more of an atheist in me than a theist as far as which way I lean. I am constantly baffled by how people can believe in a God because it makes so little sense to me. I sometimes think you have to put aside all logical thought to believe in a God. For me that seems to make me less logical if I were to believe in the supernatural. Science for me is provable and so I also can't understand those who deny that bit of logic. I cannot say there is not something sort of intelligence to the universe, that energy is not intelligent, but I just can't prove it so I say, IdkLelê;3631933 said:
Challupa, you nailed on the head how I feel about it all. Just yesterday I was talking to my brother and mom about this ( he thinks like me and she has great faith), and the way you explained how you feel is almost word by word how I did it. I could have written your text without hesitation.
Lelê;3631989 said:Challupa, you nailed on the head how I feel about it all. Just yesterday I was talking to my brother and mom about this ( he thinks like me and she has great faith), and the way you explained how you feel is almost word by word how I did it. I could have written your text without hesitation.
I think there are a lot of people out there that feel like us. I recognize there are many who have great faith in a God, but it's so hard for me to understand how they can. My family is hard core when it comes to believing in God, so I am the odd person out. I've done a lot of reading and researching the history of religions and Christianity in general, and there is so much there that makes it impossible for me to believe in any of them. It's more like humanity created God instead of God creating humanity.
Triumphant_Loser
Libertarian Egalitarian
I think that everyone is agnostic to some degree. (or at least should be.) To claim anything with absolute 100% certainty is kind of ignorant... IMHO.
Satyrism
Gingembre Sans Frontières
I am agnostic because I see humanity as empirical beings, who filter information with bias and can therefore only ever know something based on that bias. And within the limitations of our meat suits. This is especially true, for me, of beliefs.
As a human being, I accept the limitations of my conception and perception and am at peace without final answers. This does not negate my journey, exploration and psychonautics of course, but I do not believe that this human being, in this life, will conceive of a final answer to God/Gods/prime mover/divine beings etc.
I am not an atheist because to be so I would have to deny some of the experiences of my life, which bias me to theism. However, I do swing sometimes on a spectrum of agnostic atheism and a agnostic theism. I work in mental health and seeing the capabilities of what the human mind can do in altered states leaves me with a question mark about all the beliefs and processes produced by my mind.
As a human being, I accept the limitations of my conception and perception and am at peace without final answers. This does not negate my journey, exploration and psychonautics of course, but I do not believe that this human being, in this life, will conceive of a final answer to God/Gods/prime mover/divine beings etc.
I am not an atheist because to be so I would have to deny some of the experiences of my life, which bias me to theism. However, I do swing sometimes on a spectrum of agnostic atheism and a agnostic theism. I work in mental health and seeing the capabilities of what the human mind can do in altered states leaves me with a question mark about all the beliefs and processes produced by my mind.
