Peak Australian Islamic groups seek to whitewash religion of religiously motivated terrorism in my view

[Augustus]

I may or may not agree, but it seems to me that the existence of a literal belief that the terrorist is fulfilling the wishes of the divine creator of existence itself who also happens to have an active interest in giving commands to living people is quite the significant differential

Why?

Marxists thought that they were implementing the objective end point of history.

Thinking you are objectively correct and justified in violence differentiates these ideologies from most other ones sure, but this is not a factor that stems from the ideology being religious or secular in nature.

 

[Revoltingest]

Why would we "ditch" a label that they give themselves?

For the same reason the media don't label
religion based terrorism by Christians & Jews.
Either name the religion behind terrorism
for every act by adherents, or for none.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah, I'm such a killer. Me and all those people I go to church with. Killers all of em.

I don't say that you personally, or that every
Christian is a killer. But the issue here is that
some demonize Islam for a record of violence.
Christianity & Judaism have bad ones too.

 

[stevecanuck]

I see it as no different than Christianity. Yes, both books have terrible teachings and instructions, and indeed Christianity used to fuel tons of violence but they've mostly chilled out. A.d we see most Christians and Muslims have been peaceful.
And, ultimately there have even been Buddhist terrorists. So clearly this isn't an easy or clear cut topic. It's a people problem.

Yes. And there has been a lot of backlash towards them from the Ummah.

Does the bible contain a verse that says to burn heretics at the stake? I know it was done, but to blame the doctrines of Christianity such atrocities have to be explicitly called for.

 

[Augustus]

I wouldn't go so far as to collapse any and all distinctions between the religious and the secular/political, but I accept the line is blurry and arbitrary. Islam blurs the line more than Christianity in my view due to the lack of any Sharia equivalent in Christianity.

The political is just the implementation of values and interests in governance.

Adherents of secular or religious ideologies try to do this.

I agree that some religions have more formalised sets of rules for doing this than others though.

 

[Revoltingest]

Does the bible contain a verse that says to burn heretics at the stake? I know it was done, but to blame the doctrines of Christianity such atrocities have to be explicitly called for.

You should check these out.

25 Important Bible Verses About Killing (Killing Is Condoned)

Bible verses about killing Murder is always sinful in Scripture, but killing is condoned. For example, you wake up at night while someone is breaking in your house. You don't know what they are packing or what they came to do so in self-defense you shoot them. This is a justifiable killing. If...

biblereasons.com

The Bible prescribes killing many people,
eg, gays, "spiritists", audulterors, babies.

 

[stevecanuck]

Actually we often don't call Nazis by what they were and even Hitler detested the socialist part of the name. It's much more accurate to refer to them as fascist, although Nazi does tell us specifically what type.
And do keep in mind it is Animal Liberation Front and Earth Liberation Front. So what? Deep ecologists are radicals and extremists? Afterall, LW terrorism for a very long time was the greatest domestic threat in America and the UK.

If you want to change the subject go right ahead. Just don't expect me to follow you down the rabbit hole.

 

[Revoltingest]

Actually we often don't call Nazis by what they were and even Hitler detested the socialist part of the name. It's much more accurate to refer to them as fascist, although Nazi does tell us specifically what type.
And do keep in mind it is Animal Liberation Front and Earth Liberation Front. So what? Deep ecologists are radicals and extremists? Afterall, LW terrorism for a very long time was the greatest domestic threat in America and the UK.

And let's not forget Christianity's involvement in Nazism.
"Gott mit uns" = "God is with us"
Not just any god....this is the Christian god.

 

[Revoltingest]

I may or may not agree, but it seems to me that the existence of a literal belief that the terrorist is fulfilling the wishes of the divine creator of existence itself who also happens to have an active interest in giving commands to living people is quite the significant differential.

But you accept when Christians & Jews murdering
in the name of their God is acceptable because why?
Because it's only wrong when Muslims do it?

 

[stevecanuck]

How would you differentiate a religious ideology from a secular one?

I read the whole post, but really it boils down to the above repetition of your previous claim.

I'm honestly stunned at the question, because the answer is the bleedin' obvious. In fact, it's so obvious that the question actually contains the answer. The question defines the difference. The former (as you state) is based on religious beliefs, while t ........... you know, I feel silly just having to explain this. You have to be trolling. There's just no other explanation.

 

[stevecanuck]

For the same reason the media don't label
religion based terrorism by Christians & Jews.
Either name the religion behind terrorism
for every act by adherents, or for none.

Any act of terrorism explicitly committed in the name of a given religion should absolutely be named.

That way, their scriptures can be analysed and a concensus can be reached as to whether or not a claim of divine governance is legitimate. That's why I read the Qur'an. For Islam it's as legitimate as it could possibly be.

 

[Revoltingest]

Any act of terrorism explicitly committed in the name of a given religion should absolutely be named.

Even when committed by Christians & Jews?

 

[stevecanuck]

You should check these out.

25 Important Bible Verses About Killing (Killing Is Condoned)

Bible verses about killing Murder is always sinful in Scripture, but killing is condoned. For example, you wake up at night while someone is breaking in your house. You don't know what they are packing or what they came to do so in self-defense you shoot them. This is a justifiable killing. If...

biblereasons.com

The Bible prescribes killing many people,
eg, gays, "spiritists", audulterors, babies.

I'll check those out.

I know the bible describes the killing of many people, but the question is whether it also "prescribes" it. That's not just a difference; it's the difference. Maybe the answer is in those quotes.

As for Islam, the Qur'an explicitly does prescribe it (2:216 - Yusuf Ali: Fighting is prescribed for you ...)

 

[stevecanuck]

Even when committed by Christians & Jews?

Yes, if they describe themselves as such the way Islamic mujahadeen do, or if they chant things like "kill a commie for Christ".

 

[Augustus]

read the whole post, but really it boils down to the above repetition of your previous claim.

I'm honestly stunned at the question, because the answer is the bleedin' obvious. In fact, it's so obvious that the question actually contains the answer. The question defines the difference. The former (as you state) is based on religious beliefs, while t ........... you know, I feel silly just having to explain this. You have to be trolling. There's just no other explanation.

Jesus wept. The way to demarcate religious ideologies from not religious ideologies is simply that religious ideologies are religious.

What an amazing insight!

I’ve discussed this topic with dozens of people here and you are the first who has been literally unable to conceptually understand the very basic concept that we don’t define things tautologically.

I used to think your poor comprehension was just caused by your hatred of Islam, but it’s just poor comprehension in general.

That explains a lot.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'll check those out.

I know the bible describes the killing of many people, but the question is whether it also "prescribes" it. That's not just a difference; it's the difference. Maybe the answer is in those quotes.

Read before claiming.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, if they describe themselves as such the way Islamic mujahadeen do, or if they chant things like "kill a commie for Christ".

Fairness would be any time religion is in the motives.

 

[stevecanuck]

The way to demarcate religious ideologies from not religious ideologies is simply that religious ideologies are religious.

I’ve discussed this topic with dozens of people here and you are the first who has been literally unable to conceptually understand the very basic concept that we don’t define things tautologically.

I used to think your poor comprehension was just caused by your hatred of Islam, but it’s just poor comprehension in general.

That explains a lot.

Tautologically: using two words or phrases that express the same meaning, in a way that is unnecessary and usually unintentional:

I only see one word. I've underlined it for you.

How do you differentiate a cow from a horse? Well, one's a ......... cow. And the other is a ........ horse.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I know the bible describes the killing of many people, but the question is whether it also "prescribes" it. That's not just a difference; it's the difference. Maybe the answer is in those quotes.

No, the Bible definitely wants me dead over a few things. Like knowing Jehovah and leaving and saying to another ket us go worship other gods.
There's stuff like thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. If a man lies with a man as a woman they are both to be put to death, their blood is on their hands. Killing women who aren't virgins on their wedding night. Kill rebellious kids. Kill adulterers. Kill those who work on the Sabbath. Kill everyone (even the cattle) but the women you can keep as sex slaves. Happy is he who dashes your little ones against the rocks.

 

[stevecanuck]

Read before claiming.

What did I claim? Reread my post.