Sex, modesty and shame

[Wu Wei]

I am not saying that.
I am just quoting that psychologist, who may have based that on her professional experience. Pure anecdotal conjecture. Generalizing about a country is always wrong...because people are all different.
What I am saying is that speaking of sex is healthy.
It's healthier than to not speak of it, maybe.

Using profanity and getting into great detail about ones sex life and voyeurism ... is not the same as talking about sexual health..... use of profanity is just idiotic in most cases, getting into ones sex life, on TV or in the media is mostly bragging, and voyeurism can be a mental health issue or at the least show something is lacking in ones life..... none of that is necessary in a 'public' forum

 

[Estro Felino]

Can't escape my culture in some respects. Always feel uncomfortable when it comes to talking about sex.
Another thing I could blame them darn Christians for, American culture.

Unfortunately Christianity has harmed in so many ways.

 

[Estro Felino]

Using profanity and getting into great detail about ones sex life and voyeurism ... is not the same as talking about sexual health..... use of profanity is just idiotic in most cases, getting into ones sex life, on TV or in the media is mostly bragging, and voyeurism can be a mental health issue or at the least show something is lacking in ones life..... none of that is necessary in a 'public' forum

I am analyzing a phenomenon. Psychologically speaking.
I would never speak of sex in an explicit way.

For example, speaking of the open relationship between my psychologist and I, as I said on post number 2

I psychanalyze my own psychologist.
Whenever I speak of sex, I see that she sweats, she looks and sounds awkward, she really becomes unwatchable.

No offense for her.

Once I asked her: Doctor M, but tell me: do you feel awkward whenever I speak of sex?

And she was shocked by my question, and admitted that she does, a littel bit.

So...I think psychology is going backwards...since even psychologists are ashamed of speaking of sex.

 

[Nakosis]

I wonder how I escaped that so easily -- I have literally no problem at all discussing sex. At 76, the only thing that should be hard about sex isn't so much.

I've come to realize there exists more than one culture in the US. My family never talked openly about sex. Never, ever. I assume that was part of their culture.

I completely understand about your other problem.

 

[Estro Felino]

I've come to realize there exists more than one culture in the US. My family never talked openly about sex. Never, ever. I assume that was part of their culture.

I completely understand about your other problem.

Au contraire, I am really terrified that foreigners, taking a look at our TV guide, could start thinking we are obsessed with....

 

[Wu Wei]

I am analyzing a phenomenon. Psychologically speaking.
I would never speak of sex in an explicit way.

For example, speaking of the open relationship between my psychologist and I, as I said on post number 2

If you are analyzing a phenomenon then why start with

Honestly I have remarked that in the America founded by the Pilgrim Fathers, the culture of modesty is still predominant.
It's normal, because culture shapes our brains.

I have never had any kind of modesty or shame whenever it deals with speaking of sex because I was raised in a country where national TV has always legitimized and normalized shamelessness and any sort of immodesty, and maybe voyeurism.
Voyeurism is being curious about other people's sex life.
Female nudity, obscene language, ...that's what our Italian TV is all about.

For example...this is a TV show, a talk show, where the TV host asks the guests about their sex lives in detail. And she is very curious...she asks them to be as detailed as possible in the description of their own sex life, their sexual activities. And no guest shows shame or fear.

I think that Freud would say that repression causes transgression: he wrote the work Totem und Taboo, which is absolutely wonderful because it's a very thorough analysis on the relationship between psyche and sex.
The most negative passions and attitudes, like aggressivity and so on, are due to the repression and to the taboos that the society imposes.
Those taboos intensify our animalistic part that leads to transgression, to incest and to the most squalid uses of sex, like paraphilias and similar.

Unfortunately the today psychology has become Banality Fair...and most psychiatrists and psychologists have abandoned Freud...and prefer to trivialize very compex mechanisms, that depend on the neuro-science, on the endocrine system, and on the traumas.

What do you guys think?

That is making a direct comparison based on an assumption.

 

[Estro Felino]

If you are analyzing a phenomenon then why start with



That is making a direct comparison based on an assumption.

It was not an assumption.
I was wondering whether it was true.

I can add that all this doesn't clash with my religiosity.
Because sex is not unchristian.
It's christian-like to think of sex as a gift: I am happy if people have lots of sex and enjoy sex, because their happiness is God's happiness. And God wants people to be happy and to enjoy sex.

God is sad when people don't have sex.

 

[Wu Wei]

It was not an assumption.
I was wondering whether it was true.

I can add that all this doesn't clash with my religiosity.
Because sex is not unchristian.
It's christian-like to think of sex as a gift: I am happy if people have lots of sex and enjoy sex, because their happiness is God's happiness. And God wants people to be happy and to enjoy sex.

God is sad when people don't have sex.

OK, most of that has nothing to do with what I am saying. Nothing wrong with a lot of Sex, I never said there was. However the bragging, profanity are a bit much and show a lack in ones character to me

And you make a lot of assumptions about the USA, most of which are far from true, and this one is no different.

 

[JustGeorge]

OK, most of that has nothing to do with what I am saying. Nothing wrong with a lot of Sex, I never said there was. However the bragging, profanity are a bit much and show a lack in ones character to me

Good point.

If someone wants to discuss something that happened/s in their bedroom, it doesn't bother me. I enjoy a dirty joke as well.

But that's not the same as crude discussion that's usually meant to be somewhat detrimental to the person they're talking about. I don't really enjoy that kind of conversation. It does somewhat indicate a problem with character(or interests) in my mind.

And you make a lot od assumptions about the USA, most of which are far from true, and this one is no different.

Agreed. There's really all types here.

 

[Estro Felino]

Good point.

If someone wants to discuss something that happened/s in their bedroom, it doesn't bother me. I enjoy a dirty joke as well.

I do.
But I also ask my female friends what they did with their own partner. In detail.

Of course we are all different. It also depends on the kind of people you hang out with.

Agreed. There's really all types here.

They are not assumptions.
We don't even have this word, in Italian.
We'd rather say "hypotheses".
Hypothesis is not the same as assumption. I was hypothesizing something.

 

[JustGeorge]

I do.
But I also ask my female friends what they did with their own partner. In detail.

Of course we are all different. It also depends on the kind of people you hang out with.

Yes, it does. Or, how good you are at drawing boundaries. I have friends that are quite different than me, but am comfortable saying "whoa there, I don't want to hear that!" And most respectfully comply(and if they don't, I end contact).

They are not assumptions.
We don't even have this word, in Italian.
We'd rather say "hypotheses".
Hypothesis is not the same as assumption. I was hypothesizing something.

Alright.

 

[Wu Wei]

They are not assumptions.
We don't even have this word, in Italian.
We'd rather say "hypotheses".
Hypothesis is not the same as assumption. I was hypothesizing something.

Italian
assunzione

But regardless.
A hypothesis is an assumption, an idea that is proposed for the sake of argument so that it can be tested to see if it might be true

 

[Estro Felino]

Italian
assunzione

which means when you hire an employee.

But regardless.
A hypothesis is an assumption, an idea that is proposed for the sake of argument so that it can be tested to see if it might be true

In my languge a hypothesis is something one suggests as probable. Not as the truth.
It's between the probable and the likely.

 

[Wu Wei]

which means when you hire an employee.

Although Google treanslate is not always correct, lord know it can really mangle Chinese, that is what it says... but regardless Hypothesis is an assumption

In my languge a hypothesis is something one suggests as probable. Not as the truth.
It's between the probable and the likely.

Which is pretty much the definition of an assumption..... so again, in my language, by your description of what a hypothesis is in your language, you are making an assumption

 

[metis]

Female nudity, obscene language, ...that's what our Italian TV is all about.

Yes, even with some of the commercials.

BTW, a study done in Italy found that men generally find a woman more sexually enticing with some clothes on than with none-- sorta hide & seek.

 

[libre]

Yes, even with some of the commercials.

BTW, a study done in Italy found that men generally find a woman more sexually enticing with some clothes on than with none-- sorta hide & seek.

I'd be interested to see if that was equally true in other countries as well.

Seneca wrote 'we suffer more often in imagination than in reality.’ I imagine the same expression is also true: reality seldom lives up to fantasy.

 

[libre]

I recall reading an older survey of Indigenous perspectives on sex in North America.
Natives were more likely to refer to sexuality as 'magical' or 'spiritual' whereas settlers were more likely to associate it with shame and negative terms.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

God is sad when people don't have sex.

Perhaps I should be comforted by the thought that the level of God's sadness tracks mine as I age.

 

[Estro Felino]

I recall reading an older survey of Indigenous perspectives on sex in North America.
Natives were more likely to refer to sexuality as 'magical' or 'spiritual' whereas settlers were more likely to associate it with shame and negative terms.

The truth is that Puritanism is something I blame the Vatican for.
By the time of the Reformation, the Vatican had become a brothel. So Calvinists created the notion of purity of customs, of modesty, of shame, because the vital exigence was to demonstrate that they were pure, unlike the Catholic Church.
The Vatican underwent the Counter-Reformation and kinda redeemed itself, whereas the Puritans stayed pure, and were persecuted by the Stuart Dynasty, so they had to flee to the American continent.

Puritanism is private vices, public virtues.

 

[Alien826]

Joke:

Why don't Baptists make love standing up?
Because someone might think they are dancing!

Now I have your attention, I'll proceed.

I think it's true that anything that is forbidden becomes interesting and attractive, especially to young people. So yes, if sex is forbidden and/or hidden behind veils of cultural prohibition, people will want to find out what the fuss is all about. At the other end of the scale, if something is totally open and allowed, people may have an initial interest, but that fades as it proves to be not so interesting after all. Somewhere there is a balance, but unfortunately homo sap. seems to be very bad at finding cultural balances.

This has been a perennial interest of mine, and I fall towards the "open" end of the scale. As an example, in discussions about sex education I have advocated teaching sexual technique (how to give pleasure to your partner) and I typically get "shock horror" even from strong advocates of sex ed. Why? It would be of great benefit to sexual "beginners". Let's see what the reaction is here.

My position is that sex is a lot of fun and it is a great shame that people don't get to enjoy it fully because of societal attitudes. Once that is achieved, there's no need to go on about it any more than any other enjoyable activity, that as much as an individual wants to and his/her friends will put up with. Have you thought that a good 90% of popular music is about sex/romance, at one level or another? That's altogether more than the subject deserves. Advertising with sexual images? How much impact would there be if everyone was comfortable in their sexuality?

"Profanity" has been mentioned. Who cares, seriously. Words are vibrations in the air that are used to convey information. Why forbid the use of some of them? Try this. "Plondite" is a word I made up. You don't know what it means. Is it offensive? Of course not. Now I'll tell you that it refers to anal sex. Ooooh! Don't say it! But it's the same word that it was before, when you didn't think it was offensive.