Socially Acceptable Damage

[Revoltingest]

Bleeding is alarming, but I never met a person who did it out in the open. Tended to be a 'private' activity.

And, it depends who you're drinking with... met some pretty feisty drunks.

To discover that someone cuts conjures images
of blood spurting from rent flesh. Drinking
is just...well....drinking.

 

[JustGeorge]

To discover that someone cuts conjures images
of blood spurting from rent flesh. Drinking
is just...well....drinking.

Depends on who you drink with!

I have one friend I associate her drinking with vomit flying... She doesn't seem willing or able to moderate herself.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I don't drink heavily or cut anymore.

I should apologize -- I was terribly remiss in not first focusing on the above. Well done!

 

[flowerpower]

Trigger Warning: Contains Graphic Mention of Self Harm

Somewhere in my teen aged years, I learned to cut.

Not paper, but my own skin. I really don't remember how it started, but, there it was.

It wasn't that I wanted to do serious harm. On the contrary, it calmed me down at a time that I was deeply depressed and so anxious that it impeded my ability to form friendships. And it wasn't just random hashing up... I'd do designs, phrases, small pictures...

But I had to keep it to myself. It was generally frowned upon. Greatly. I had maybe one or two friends that were okay to tell(and one with the same habit). Presenting my 'work' was usually met with harsh admonishments and instruction to "get help". I had one absolutely gorgeous design; the patterns covered from my ankle to my knee(both front and back of leg). I was so proud of it... but couldn't display it(though it really was not much different than a tattoo). I took a risk and showed my then boyfriend... "You did that?" he said. I cringed, nodded, and waited for the lecture. "That's beautiful." Not what I was expecting, and one of my more dear memories...

The next guy wasn't so accepting. He'd ream me out here to next Sunday if he found so much as a scratch on me(which was a problem, because I didn't always do it). I took to cutting the bottoms of my feet. The designs stopped, just 'quick lines', to make it seem innocent. Stress built up. He was hard to live with, and a mean drunk. I'd panic any time he cracked a bottle. He tried to be sympathetic about it, but really didn't understand how his drinking could upset anyone. (People always say mean things when they're drunk, he thought. You just ignore them and move on, in his mind.) One night, he asked if I'd be okay if he had a beer. I said sure. I'll take your Jager, then.

Up to that point, I'd never drank a drop. He was surprised, asked if I was sure, and I confirmed. So I had my first drink; straight Jager. I sat, sipped, watched Spongebob. And I did feel better. So, I switched from cutting to drinking. I drank a lot.

I was the world's most boring drunk. I didn't do anything exciting. I merely managed stress levels. I averaged 5 a night, but no one could tell I'd had a thing(gin and flavored water was my thing). I'd hear people express they were glad I'd stopped the other habit, which absolutely baffled me. "But this is worse, isn't it? This is really bad for me. The scars were only skin deep, and they healed." I'd get a bunch of half reasons on why this was preferable, but I'll be honest, none made sense to me.

It just seemed drinking, though much, much worse for me, was okay, because other people said it was okay. Cutting was not, because it made other people uncomfortable.

I don't drink heavily or cut anymore. But I still am confused about the responses I received during that time.

Why do you feel society is okay with one, but frowns on the other?

You're describing two behaviours that are known in the psychological community as mal-adaptive coping mechanisms.

Both drinking and cutting are regarded as forms of mal-adaptive coping because they are - as you say - damaging.

Like most things, that damage has the potential to be relatively minor or extremely devasting (alcoholism can ruin a person's entire life and/or kill them; the same argument can be made for cutting).

You touched on something that is brought up a lot when alcoholics are treated - that almost all societies (almost 100% worldwide) tolerate or even encourage alcohol consumption despite the fact that it's as bad as any other self-destructive activity. It is an example of socially acceptable damage and it holds almost no redeeming qualities to it except that it might be a quick and easy way for someone to unwind when they're stressed or that it's held up as a form of social bonding activity for 1000s of years - none of these things however negate the fact that it is, ultimately, a self-destructive activity.

Other posters already elaborated on why cutting vs drinking (especially moderate or responsible drinking) is considered far more socially acceptable when, if we're going to be philosophically consistent, that isn't exactly the case.

All that being said, mal-adaptive coping can come in the form of a lot of different things - most of them are considered to be either socially acceptable or at least forgivable (i.e. masturbation or promiscuity).

 

[Revoltingest]

Depends on who you drink with!

I address only what appears to be the general case.
Exceptions notwithstanding, this appears to splain
why drinking is more socially acceptable than cutting.

 

[JustGeorge]

I address only what appears to be the general case.
Exceptions notwithstanding, this appears to splain
why drinking is more socially acceptable than cutting.

I will say this thread has been enlightening so far.

 

[Father Heathen]

Drinking is not always done with or seen as intentional self-harm, whereas cutting oneself is.

 

[John53]

You're describing two behaviours that are known in the psychological community as mal-adaptive coping mechanisms.

Both drinking and cutting are regarded as forms of mal-adaptive coping because they are - as you say - damaging.

Like most things, that damage has the potential to be relatively minor or extremely devasting (alcoholism can ruin a person's entire life and/or kill them; the same argument can be made for cutting).

You touched on something that is brought up a lot when alcoholics are treated - that almost all societies (almost 100% worldwide) tolerate or even encourage alcohol consumption despite the fact that it's as bad as any other self-destructive activity. It is an example of socially acceptable damage and it holds almost no redeeming qualities to it except that it might be a quick and easy way for someone to unwind when they're stressed or that it's held up as a form of social bonding activity for 1000s of years - none of these things however negate the fact that it is, ultimately, a self-destructive activity.

Other posters already elaborated on why cutting vs drinking (especially moderate or responsible drinking) is considered far more socially acceptable when, if we're going to be philosophically consistent, that isn't exactly the case.

All that being said, mal-adaptive coping can come in the form of a lot of different things - most of them are considered to be either socially acceptable or at least forgivable (i.e. masturbation or promiscuity).

In Australia it's socially unacceptable to not drink. I could not drink for many years because of health issues and only have one beer every few days now. I'm always being questioned as to why I'm not drinking. I say because it makes me sick and the standard response is... why don't you try one and see how it goes. At a Xmas party a few weeks back I was told by a woman that she doesn't trust people who don't drink.

 

[JustGeorge]

In Australia it's socially unacceptable to not drink. I could not drink for many years because of health issues and only have one beer every few days now. I'm always being questioned as to why I'm not drinking. I say because it makes me sick and the standard response is... why don't you try one and see how it goes. At a Xmas party a few weeks back I was told by a woman that she doesn't trust people who don't drink.

While its not that way everywhere here, there are certain groups for whom abstaining from something(that 'something' might vary) is seen as 'snobbish' behavior, and it can hinder a person's ability to socialize within those groups.

 

[flowerpower]

In Australia it's socially unacceptable to not drink. I could not drink for many years because of health issues and only have one beer every few days now. I'm always being questioned as to why I'm not drinking. I say because it makes me sick and the standard response is... why don't you try one and see how it goes. At a Xmas party a few weeks back I was told by a woman that she doesn't trust people who don't drink.

"I don't trust people who don't drink."

That's one line that makes my blood boil.

Really low brow.

 

[Vinayaka]

Trigger Warning: Contains Graphic Mention of Self Harm

Somewhere in my teen aged years, I learned to cut.

Not paper, but my own skin. I really don't remember how it started, but, there it was.

It wasn't that I wanted to do serious harm. On the contrary, it calmed me down at a time that I was deeply depressed and so anxious that it impeded my ability to form friendships. And it wasn't just random hashing up... I'd do designs, phrases, small pictures...

But I had to keep it to myself. It was generally frowned upon. Greatly. I had maybe one or two friends that were okay to tell(and one with the same habit). Presenting my 'work' was usually met with harsh admonishments and instruction to "get help". I had one absolutely gorgeous design; the patterns covered from my ankle to my knee(both front and back of leg). I was so proud of it... but couldn't display it(though it really was not much different than a tattoo). I took a risk and showed my then boyfriend... "You did that?" he said. I cringed, nodded, and waited for the lecture. "That's beautiful." Not what I was expecting, and one of my more dear memories...

The next guy wasn't so accepting. He'd ream me out here to next Sunday if he found so much as a scratch on me(which was a problem, because I didn't always do it). I took to cutting the bottoms of my feet. The designs stopped, just 'quick lines', to make it seem innocent. Stress built up. He was hard to live with, and a mean drunk. I'd panic any time he cracked a bottle. He tried to be sympathetic about it, but really didn't understand how his drinking could upset anyone. (People always say mean things when they're drunk, he thought. You just ignore them and move on, in his mind.) One night, he asked if I'd be okay if he had a beer. I said sure. I'll take your Jager, then.

Up to that point, I'd never drank a drop. He was surprised, asked if I was sure, and I confirmed. So I had my first drink; straight Jager. I sat, sipped, watched Spongebob. And I did feel better. So, I switched from cutting to drinking. I drank a lot.

I was the world's most boring drunk. I didn't do anything exciting. I merely managed stress levels. I averaged 5 a night, but no one could tell I'd had a thing(gin and flavored water was my thing). I'd hear people express they were glad I'd stopped the other habit, which absolutely baffled me. "But this is worse, isn't it? This is really bad for me. The scars were only skin deep, and they healed." I'd get a bunch of half reasons on why this was preferable, but I'll be honest, none made sense to me.

It just seemed drinking, though much, much worse for me, was okay, because other people said it was okay. Cutting was not, because it made other people uncomfortable.

I don't drink heavily or cut anymore. But I still am confused about the responses I received during that time.

Why do you feel society is okay with one, but frowns on the other?

We had a few cutters over the years at school. Usually females, but not always. There are cultural taboos on it, but I'm not sure in cultures where scarring is considered a form of beauty. Perhaps it's fine there. Drinking also is cultural. In some places it's very taboo. I believe that in the long run alcohol is worse on you, as the scars can potentially last longer.

When you cut, was there a sense of euphoria that came with it? (endorphin induced) The reason I ask is that I've done kavadi, as you probably already know, and that euphoria was part of it. But certainly in America or Canada, it would cause some reactions amongst the general populace. My response to that is "Well, have you tried it?"

From another perspective, perhaps that self-harm was self-healing.

Regardless, I'm glad you don't feel the need any more. I still feel the need for kavadi, but there are lots of challenges here, mainly finding a piercer.

 

[The Hammer]

The whole thing baffles me too. I used tattoos as "cutting". Stressed. Go get some work done. Even just touch ups. It releases endorphins and dopamine.

Drinking, much like cutting are problems when it becomes a habitual form of escapism, instead of a passing one from time to time.

 

[Vinayaka]

The whole thing baffles me too. I used tattoos as "cutting". Stressed. Go get some work done. Even just touch ups. It releases endorphins and dopamine.

Drinking, much like cutting are problems when it becomes a habitual form of escapism, instead of a passing one from time to time.

I have one tattoo, and when I showed my daughter, she stared oddly at me and said, "That can get addictive, you know." But to further expand on the topic of the OP, for some reason tattoos seem more acceptable than cutting. Most likely that's due to the cutting being more of a teenager thing, while tattooing is adult.

 

[Quintessence]

Western culture in general has strong, largely irrational taboos about body fluids. Doesn't even matter what kind. Just like they have strong, largely irrational taboos about eating insects. Neither of them are inherently a problem, but there we have it.

 

[JustGeorge]

We had a few cutters over the years at school. Usually females, but not always. There are cultural taboos on it, but I'm not sure in cultures where scarring is considered a form of beauty. Perhaps it's fine there. Drinking also is cultural. In some places it's very taboo. I believe that in the long run alcohol is worse on you, as the scars can potentially last longer.

When you cut, was there a sense of euphoria that came with it? (endorphin induced) The reason I ask is that I've done kavadi, as you probably already know, and that euphoria was part of it. But certainly in America or Canada, it would cause some reactions amongst the general populace. My response to that is "Well, have you tried it?"

From another perspective, perhaps that self-harm was self-healing.

Regardless, I'm glad you don't feel the need any more. I still feel the need for kavadi, but there are lots of challenges here, mainly finding a piercer.

I'm not sure if it was euphoric, but rather calming. I did note to my therapist when reflecting on alternatives that spicy food produced a similar feeling for me.

I tend to think of purposeful self injury in different groups. There's the 'release' sort, the decorative sort(which I feel tattoos fall under, but cutting can, too), and the religious, which isn't generally something widely done, but has a specific purpose.

 

[Vinayaka]

Western culture in general has strong, largely irrational taboos about body fluids. Doesn't even matter what kind. Just like they have strong, largely irrational taboos about eating insects. Neither of them are inherently a problem, but there we have it.

I researched it a bit, due to this thread, and found it quite amazing how the western psychologists started from the assumption that it was just very very wrong. The best site I read was by an excellent young writer who explained in detail why she was a cutter. Another interesting thing was that here in America the gender ratio was about 75 to 25, female being the 75, but in China it was 50/50. Stress seemed to be a common factor throughout. It's also important to point out that it's totally non-suicidal.

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm not sure if it was euphoric, but rather calming. I did note to my therapist when reflecting on alternatives that spicy food produced a similar feeling for me.

I tend to think of purposeful self injury in different groups. There's the 'release' sort, the decorative sort(which I feel tattoos fall under, but cutting can, too), and the religious, which isn't generally something widely done, but has a specific purpose.

Calming was definitely the sense I got from reading about it as well. Thanks for sharing. Religious is more euphoria, in my experience.

 

[JustGeorge]

I researched it a bit, due to this thread, and found it quite amazing how the western psychologists started from the assumption that it was just very very wrong. The best site I read was by an excellent young writer who explained in detail why she was a cutter. Another interesting thing was that here in America the gender ratio was about 75 to 25, female being the 75, but in China it was 50/50. Stress seemed to be a common factor throughout. It's also important to pint out that it's totally non-suicidal.

I do think there's a misconception that a person who is cutting is suicidal. That usually is not the case.

 

[Vinayaka]

I do think there's a misconception that a person who is cutting is suicidal. That usually is not the case.

Definitely. That's how the school counsellor and principal reacted at school. I taught younger kids and as far as I know, it didn't happen. Definitely not attention seeking behavior either. Thanks for this thread, very interesting stuff.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Self harm stimming is pretty common in the autistic world. I've only ever had one cutting instance as a teen but hair pulling, picking, self biting, head hitting is all things I and a lot of neurodivergent people have done during or preceeding melt downs. I think society just doesn't understand how damaging psychological distress can be, or how inaccessible other ways of coping like exercising or meditation can be during intense distress, especially but by no means solely for brains prone to overstimulation or lack of dopamine or serotonin regulation. So even though the self harm is usually paradoxically helping things from getting worse psychologically and physically (because intense distress is also physically harmful), society only sees the physical distress it causes and dubs it worse than the psychological distress it's mitigating. Which is why psychologists and counselors often tell parents and family to *not interfere* with cutting or hitting oneself unless it gets to a very extreme degree which it rarely does.

Tl;dr it's just not something society at large has had cause to think about past the immediate physical ramifications.