Was Islam spread by the sword?

[ZooGirl02]

Hi everyone. Some people say that Islam was spread by the sword. Others say that it was not. The Koran says that there is to be no compulsion in religion so it would seem that Islam's sacred text would condone religious freedom. But was this really the case historically? Here is the reference from the Koran which I am referring to.

[2.256] There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

 

[LuisDantas]

One gets the sense that this is a confused and confusing matter for Muslims.

While they like to quote that verse of the Quran, there is also a general expectation that Muslim societies have the right to demand obedience to Islamic Law.

And then again, there is also a general feeling that no true Muslim (or at least Islamic) society exists, and maybe never existed. Not for lack of claimants, though.

Case in point:

On December 7, 1705, at first light, officers of the Mughal horde, Khwaja Muhammad and Nahar Khan, sent a messenger with terms of treaty demanding submission to Islamic law

Source: Wikipedia - Battle of Chamkaur

I don't think most Muslims have a very clear and well-thought idea of what lack of compulsion in religion would be. As is only to be expected, since they learn and are constantly reminded to submit to the supposed Will of God as expressed in the Quran and its interpreters.

 

[Poeticus]

And then again, there is also a general feeling that no true Muslim (or at least Islamic) society exists, and maybe never existed.

But such a statement downplays societies
throughout history that have adamantly
called themselves "truly Muslim". We can't
act as judges declaring they weren't "truly
Muslim" (and I'm not saying that you are).
​

 

[LuisDantas]

We can't act as judges declaring they weren't "truly
Muslim" (and I'm not saying that you are).

I see where you are coming from, but we can't very well just accept that societies are both Muslim and not Muslim at any given time either.

At least not if significant decisions rely on deciding one way or the other... which Muslims seem to insist on.

Also, while I often use "Muslim" and "Islamic" interchangeably, I realize that this is not quite correct. Islamic is an ideal, Muslim a reality. Much can be and often is made of the difference between the two.

 

[ZooGirl02]

I have read before that in a Muslim society they are supposed to allow other religions to exist but they have to pay some sort of tax. Personally I that seems like oppression if not compulsion.

 

[steeltoes]

Islam, Judaism, and Christianity were spread by the sword. My parents never used a sword, they didn't even own one, but they did force me to go to church every Sunday against my will.

 

[ZooGirl02]

Islam and Christianity were spread by the sword. My parents never used a sword, they didn't even own one, but they did force me to go to church every Sunday against my will.

I would like to reply to your post but this thread is about Islam and not Christianity. If you'd like, feel free to start another debate thread.

 

[arcanum]

Islam, Judaism, and Christianity were spread by the sword. My parents never used a sword, they didn't even own one, but they did force me to go to church every Sunday against my will.

Well I don't think it's either fair or accurate to lump Judaism in with in with Islam and Christianity regarding religions which were spread by the sword, because it wasn't. Both Islam and Christianity( thought not initially) however were definitely spread not by love but by violence. Convert or die and convert or be second class, heavily taxed citizens were applied by both religions to subjugated and conquered peoples. That whole no compulsion in religion is a contradiction and contrary to the historical accounts of the spread of Islam, this can even be found in the Koran and the hadith's themselves. Spin masters can spin if that makes them feel better but anyone willing to have an objective look at world history can discover this fact without much effort. Both Christianity and Islam have both blood and compulsion in their histories, and still do.

 

[Sabour]

I have read before that in a Muslim society they are supposed to allow other religions to exist but they have to pay some sort of tax. Personally I that seems like oppression if not compulsion.

Why it is oppression ? Muslims used to to pay Zakat which is more than the taxes. And Muslims were the ones responsible to defend the territory. And once I heard from a scholar that they had the opportunity not to pay taxes if they want in condition that they join muslims in sharing the responsibility to defend the territory (I can't assure you that as I didn't look for his proof about that).

 

[Sha'irullah]

Of course, always remember the Mushrikun

 

[England my lionheart]

I have read before that in a Muslim society they are supposed to allow other religions to exist but they have to pay some sort of tax. Personally I that seems like oppression if not compulsion.

This may interest you,Sudan woman faces death for apostasy,she is also pregnant,the ideal of Islam can be contradictory,this is from the same news story:

Farouk Chothia

BBC Africa

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There is a long-running debate in Islam over whether apostasy is a crime.

Some liberal scholars hold the view that it is not - and back up their argument by citing the Koranic verse which states: "There shall be no compulsion in religion."

Others say apostasy is tantamount to treason - and refer to what Prophet Muhammad said: "It is not permissible to spill the blood of a Muslim except in three [instances]: A life for a life; a married person who commits adultery; and one who forsakes his religion and separates from the community."

The latter is the dominant view in conservative Muslim states such as Sudan, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and the cause of much religious tension.

Here's the link

BBC News - Sudan woman faces death for apostasy,

 

[Shadow Wolf]

In some instances yes. But there aren't too many ideologies that haven't been spread by violence at one point in time or another.

 

[Muffled]

I have read before that in a Muslim society they are supposed to allow other religions to exist but they have to pay some sort of tax. Personally I that seems like oppression if not compulsion.

However that may be I believe a Muslim knows he can't force a person to believe things. We had a Muslim attend our church and the Pastor tried to convince him of a few things but that didn't work and the Muslim probably tried to convince the Pastor of a few things and that wouldn't work either and I should know because I have never been able to convince him of anything.

 

[Muffled]

Islam, Judaism, and Christianity were spread by the sword. My parents never used a sword, they didn't even own one, but they did force me to go to church every Sunday against my will.

I believe children are required to obey their parents but once one becomes an adult one can act as stupidly as one wishes.

 

[Muffled]

This may interest you,Sudan woman faces death for apostasy,she is also pregnant,the ideal of Islam can be contradictory,this is from the same news story:

Farouk Chothia

BBC Africa

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is a long-running debate in Islam over whether apostasy is a crime.

Some liberal scholars hold the view that it is not - and back up their argument by citing the Koranic verse which states: "There shall be no compulsion in religion."

Others say apostasy is tantamount to treason - and refer to what Prophet Muhammad said: "It is not permissible to spill the blood of a Muslim except in three [instances]: A life for a life; a married person who commits adultery; and one who forsakes his religion and separates from the community."

The latter is the dominant view in conservative Muslim states such as Sudan, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and the cause of much religious tension.

Here's the link

BBC News - Sudan woman faces death for apostasy,

I believe that isnot in the Qu'ran and therefore must be one of those hadiths attriibuted to Mohammed. I do not view Hadiths as the word of God but some Muslims do. It doesn't surprise me that it seems to contradict the Qu'ran.

 

[LuisDantas]

I believe children are required to obey their parents but once one becomes an adult one can act as stupidly as one wishes.

What exactly does "required" mean in this context? Which provisions exist to deal with abusive parents?

 

[Sabour]

I believe that isnot in the Qu'ran and therefore must be one of those hadiths attriibuted to Mohammed. I do not view Hadiths as the word of God but some Muslims do. It doesn't surprise me that it seems to contradict the Qu'ran.

Hadith is not the word of God except for the hadith "Qudsi".

However, Hadith is part of Islam because Mohammad peace be upon him was the prophet. He lived Islam in every second he was on earth. However, the reason Hadith doesn't seem to be part of Islam for some people is that because Hadith can be easily taken out of context and can be easily made to say another thing.

 

[England my lionheart]

I believe that isnot in the Qu'ran and therefore must be one of those hadiths attriibuted to Mohammed. I do not view Hadiths as the word of God but some Muslims do. It doesn't surprise me that it seems to contradict the Qu'ran.

So Islams prophet didn't speak in gods words in this instance?,maybe there were other contradictions too:

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58:

Narrated Abu Burda:

Abu Musa said, "I came to the Prophet along with two men (from the tribe) of Ash'ariyin, one on my right and the other on my left, while Allah's Apostle was brushing his teeth (with a Siwak), and both men asked him for some employment. The Prophet said, 'O Abu Musa (O 'Abdullah bin Qais!).' I said, 'By Him Who sent you with the Truth, these two men did not tell me what was in their hearts and I did not feel (realize) that they were seeking employment.' As if I were looking now at his Siwak being drawn to a corner under his lips, and he said, 'We never (or, we do not) appoint for our affairs anyone who seeks to be employed. But O Abu Musa! (or 'Abdullah bin Qais!) Go to Yemen.'" The Prophet then sent Mu'adh bin Jabal after him and when Mu'adh reached him, he spread out a cushion for him and requested him to get down (and sit on the cushion). Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Muisa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, "Then we discussed the night prayers and one of us said, 'I pray and sleep, and I hope that Allah will reward me for my sleep as well as for my prayers.'"

I expect there are more,even your team has some,it must be difficult for a follower of Islam to work out when Muhammed was working for a God when it comes to ahadith,perhaps a Qur'an alone Muslim doesn't encounter that problem.

 

[seeking4truth]

I have read before that in a Muslim society they are supposed to allow other religions to exist but they have to pay some sort of tax. Personally I that seems like oppression if not compulsion.

Don't you pay tax to your government? All citizens pay tax. Do you want non-Muslims to be exempt in a Muslim state?

 

[FearGod]

Hi everyone. Some people say that Islam was spread by the sword. Others say that it was not. The Koran says that there is to be no compulsion in religion so it would seem that Islam's sacred text would condone religious freedom. But was this really the case historically? Here is the reference from the Koran which I am referring to.

All religions was by choice except Islam was by force,here is the evidence

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