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Was Islam spread by the sword?
- Thread starter ZooGirl02
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Surat Al-'Aĥzāb
Sahih International
Among the believers are men true to what they promised Allah . Among them is he who has fulfilled his vow [to the death], and among them is he who awaits [his chance]. And they did not alter [the terms of their commitment] by any alteration -
Sahih International
That Allah may reward the truthful for their truth and punish the hypocrites if He wills or accept their repentance. Indeed, Allah is ever Forgiving and Merciful.
Sahih International
And Allah repelled those who disbelieved, in their rage, not having obtained any good. And sufficient was Allah for the believers in battle, and ever is Allah Powerful and Exalted in Might.
Sahih International
And He brought down those who supported them among the People of the Scripture from their fortresses and cast terror into their hearts [so that] a party you killed, and you took captive a party.
Sahih International
And He caused you to inherit their land and their homes and their properties and a land which you have not trodden. And ever is Allah , over all things, competent.
Sahih International
O Prophet, say to your wives, "If you should desire the worldly life and its adornment, then come, I will provide for you and give you a gracious release.
Sahih International
But if you should desire Allah and His Messenger and the home of the Hereafter - then indeed, Allah has prepared for the doers of good among you a great reward."
Its quite interesting that the Banu Qurayzah were a Jewish tribe that brought agriculture and prosperity to Yathrib now called Medina after escaping the Roman Jewish conflict,then some Arab tribes arrived and fought each other with the Banu Qurayzah fighting on one side or the other,the ones that surrendered converted to Islam the hundreds that didn't had their heads chopped off.
Until the Jewish people returned to Israel and brought agriculture and prosperity to the region it wasn't the "the land of milk and honey" of the scriptures but a refuge from the Russian progroms and Nazi Germany,then a tribe came from Egypt and fought with the tribes from Syria and now wanted another land deal like Medina.
Its just my opinion of what I see as a parallel between the two events.
Sahih International
Among the believers are men true to what they promised Allah . Among them is he who has fulfilled his vow [to the death], and among them is he who awaits [his chance]. And they did not alter [the terms of their commitment] by any alteration -
Sahih International
That Allah may reward the truthful for their truth and punish the hypocrites if He wills or accept their repentance. Indeed, Allah is ever Forgiving and Merciful.
Sahih International
And Allah repelled those who disbelieved, in their rage, not having obtained any good. And sufficient was Allah for the believers in battle, and ever is Allah Powerful and Exalted in Might.
Sahih International
And He brought down those who supported them among the People of the Scripture from their fortresses and cast terror into their hearts [so that] a party you killed, and you took captive a party.
Sahih International
And He caused you to inherit their land and their homes and their properties and a land which you have not trodden. And ever is Allah , over all things, competent.
Sahih International
O Prophet, say to your wives, "If you should desire the worldly life and its adornment, then come, I will provide for you and give you a gracious release.
Sahih International
But if you should desire Allah and His Messenger and the home of the Hereafter - then indeed, Allah has prepared for the doers of good among you a great reward."
Its quite interesting that the Banu Qurayzah were a Jewish tribe that brought agriculture and prosperity to Yathrib now called Medina after escaping the Roman Jewish conflict,then some Arab tribes arrived and fought each other with the Banu Qurayzah fighting on one side or the other,the ones that surrendered converted to Islam the hundreds that didn't had their heads chopped off.
Until the Jewish people returned to Israel and brought agriculture and prosperity to the region it wasn't the "the land of milk and honey" of the scriptures but a refuge from the Russian progroms and Nazi Germany,then a tribe came from Egypt and fought with the tribes from Syria and now wanted another land deal like Medina.
Its just my opinion of what I see as a parallel between the two events.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
Banu Qurayza were minority living with the muslims, and they were protecting each other by a treaty. During a war Banu Qurayza broke their treaty, in a middle of war. And the prohet wasn't the one who gave the decision to kill them, because Bany Qurayza asked that the judge be one of the muslims who was one of them before he came to Islam (Sa'd ibn Mu'adh I think)
This is an article on the subject
Sabour
Well-Known Member
I suggest for anyone who wants to know about our prophet Muhammad peace be upon him that he/she reads "The first Muslim" which is written by Lesley Hazleton, who is an atheist. I've heard it is worth looking to
That's right it wasn't him who made the decision,what do you think would have been Muhammeds decision?.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
I am in no position to answer that. Even Scholars can't seem to agree on important matters these days. I don't have the sufficient information to put. For example, I really wanted to address some if your replies, but I couldn't because I can't give information that I am not sure of. All what I would have given was personal interpretation, which may be wrong.
Ok I understand that but isn't Surat Al-'Aĥzāb quite straightforward?
Sabour
Well-Known Member
Well I don't know what you exactly meant by straight forward.
But to address the verses you've put,
Sahih International
Among the believers are men true to what they promised Allah . Among them is he who has fulfilled his vow [to the death], and among them is he who awaits [his chance]. And they did not alter [the terms of their commitment] by any alteration -
Sahih International
That Allah may reward the truthful for their truth and punish the hypocrites if He wills or accept their repentance. Indeed, Allah is ever Forgiving and Merciful.
Sahih International
And Allah repelled those who disbelieved, in their rage, not having obtained any good. And sufficient was Allah for the believers in battle, and ever is Allah Powerful and Exalted in Might.
The first 3 verses are talking about that among the muslims were hypocrites. They said, or held an oath that they will fight in the name of Allah when they are approached by enemies. True believers held their oath, but hypocrites ran away.
About the other verses
Sahih International
And He brought down those who supported them among the People of the Scripture from their fortresses and cast terror into their hearts [so that] a party you killed, and you took captive a party.
Sahih International
And He caused you to inherit their land and their homes and their properties and a land which you have not trodden. And ever is Allah , over all things, competent.
Sahih International
O Prophet, say to your wives, "If you should desire the worldly life and its adornment, then come, I will provide for you and give you a gracious release.
Sahih International
But if you should desire Allah and His Messenger and the home of the Hereafter - then indeed, Allah has prepared for the doers of good among you a great reward."
These are about the people we are talking about who broke their treaty. Verse 33:26 exactly describes them by saying " those who supported them among the People of the Scripture ".
I think I read somewhere that this was not the first time they broke a treaty but this time it was in a middle of the war.
Such verses should be read along with the interpretations to know what is going on because they are clearly referring to certain events and Quraan is describing how things took place.
How we must treat others is referred to in the whole Quraan and it is always not to refer to "Jihad" verses to see how we should treat others.
"Jihad" verses are clearly give in a certain context. Context like when they attack you, or when they drive you out of your homes, or when they ..... And if they cease stop, don't transgress and so ...
By straightforward I mean that although Muhammed didn't make the decision to execute all the males and take the women and children into slavery he didn't seem to mind,Arabs of that time had a love for war booty just as Europeans had.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Hiya ZooGirl02,
To be honest, yes Islam was spread by the sword, but it was also spread peacefully. It was a bit of both, as needed. Then again, having well provisioned armies roaming the world at the time, hoping to gain converts, is sort of like having Hell's angels in full regalia and drunken/drugged glory roaming the countryside trying to interest people in riding bicycles... and beating the crap out of anyone who dared to tick them off.
And yes, it does say that there is no compulsion in religion, and yet Muhammad himself is compelled to "recite/read" at the formation of Islam in the cave of Hira. So, it really means that there is no compulsion in religion, unless there is no other way, then it is fine and dandy.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
Well in that particular case, they, (Banu Qurazya) as I said asked that the judge to be one who was among them before he came to be a muslim. In that particular judgement, our prophet can't have a say Sa'd ibn Mu'adh judgement because the prophet was considered as a side among the disputes.
Concerning war booty, Muslims only used it against the ones who used it. It won't be fair for muslims to come put their lives on the line and know they could be captured as slaves. But still, when the approach was taken (slaves), we should look at the treatment they were offered. It is more like they were take into custody and were provided with their needs.
I don't agree on the label "slavery".
I am not sure if you had, but in case you didn't, I hope you read my input on slavery
I'm not singling Muslims out on war booty and slaves,in the 7th century that was the norm for almost everybody,the problem from my perspective is the Qur'an sunnah and hadith cannot move on from the 7th century,its not the only religion that cannot move on IMO though.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
That is my point. Islam didn't come to confirm slavery. It came to stop slavery. But it did this in steps. This is why I referred to my other link which includes verses from the Quraan and some Hadith of the prophet on how to treat slaves. Islam made freeing slaves a "number one" good deed one can do.
The only case in Islam where there was taking of slaves is when the enemy is taking slaves too as I explained the reason.
Islam main approach was freeing them and making them part of society, a society which is free of racism.
The reality though is that slavery continues to be prevalent in Islam and elsewhere,emancipation of slaves may be an honourable deed but IMO it would make more sense for slavery to be wrong in the first place without the need to be done in steps.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
Well first thing is Islam didn't say it was right.
Second, let us look at Abraham Linclon. Did stopping slavery solve the problem? There were division among people still. Group A still hated Group B
There was still hate between both sides towards the others. Linclon didnt deal with the problem; he dealt with the result of the problem. But I am not discrediting what he did at all. The real problem was racism.
Had Islam stopped slavery directly, we would have seen the same results. Society split between two groups "the previous slaves" and the "previous masters". Ending slavery at a point where masters used to torture "slaves" would have turned into a bad decision because slaves will not forget the way they were treated.
Islam created a sense of brotherhood between what are called "slaves" and what are called "masters". You have to feed them from what you eat and dress them from what you wear.
This step was essential.
Third, Islam is fair to everyone, even the "master". At that time people used to buy and sell slaves. So the same way you invest in stocks, they used to invest in slaves. It was a normal thing to do. So it would be unfair to them.
All that is fair comment but from my point of view an all knowing God would say slavery is bad so stop it or you will be toast,IMO a God wouldn't need to do it in steps.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
There is a certain format in life and everything has its consequences. Islam is not just do and don'ts. It doesn't tell what is right and what is wrong and stop there. Islam is a complete system of life and teaches us how we should approach things and how we deal with problems. There is a message behind every word, behind every letter, behind every approach.
Could God tell us to solve the slavery problem in a different way or just make it disappear? Well yeah. He just says "be" and it is. As a matter of fact it takes less than that.
God can do everything, but does God do anything?
There are many messages behind the approach towards slave. One of the strongest messages I see is to approach problems in a wise way and to take things step by step. Other message is not to be racist. Other message is to treat all people like brother.
I am just a normal muslim. If you sit with a scholar, he will give you 200 things that we would learn from this approach.
Allah can do anything ... But Allah does which is best for us to understand.
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Then I would say that in the worst places to live in the world right now there's a total lack of understanding,thats my opinion of course but when I look at a map of the world the worst parts are the most religious.
Maldini
Active Member
As a Persian I could assure you that it was spread by sword. The very beginning of Islam as a major religion was by power of swords, because Muhammad, unlike many other prophets, did not believe in secular governments and he always told people that as the prophet he must also be the ruler of Hijaz, today known as Saudi Arabia.
When he gathered enough followers after some years, he attacked the tribes that ware ruling Mecca and Medinah and became the king, or in his words, Khalifa which means God's substitute.
So if it wasn't for swords, there would be no Islam.
In my opinion becoming an emperor was his main goal, since he took people that were overlooked in society, the ones that were outcast and had no power and formed an army, and promised most of them power and wealth, probably his most infamous promise is the one he made to Ali to make him his successor, but it was overruled when Mohammad died and a result, now we have Shia and Sunni.
When he gathered enough followers after some years, he attacked the tribes that ware ruling Mecca and Medinah and became the king, or in his words, Khalifa which means God's substitute.
So if it wasn't for swords, there would be no Islam.
In my opinion becoming an emperor was his main goal, since he took people that were overlooked in society, the ones that were outcast and had no power and formed an army, and promised most of them power and wealth, probably his most infamous promise is the one he made to Ali to make him his successor, but it was overruled when Mohammad died and a result, now we have Shia and Sunni.
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