Do christians go straight to heaven upon their deaths?

[URAVIP2ME]

There is no need to take an interpretation that is out of sync with many other scriptures in the Bible.

Please post a verse or two along that line of thought that you have in mind ?

 

[sincerly]

sincerly said: ↑
"Yes", you have already acknowledged that the "soul" is the person therefore, the "spirit and the "soul" aren't the same. Nor will that verse above(Matt.10:18) work for the "spirit" not dying as you claim.
For the wicked, GOD will do the "killing"/destroying of life and body in the "fire".

The soul is a body made alive by the spirit.

"Yes", the "dust"/body isthe person made alive by the breath/"spirit"(Hebrew=ruahh; Greek=pneuma) of Life from GOD. It is said to be a "soul"(Hebrew=nehphesh; Greek=psuchee) by that process.

The "soul"/person is subject to death. and the "life" one has returns to the GOD--who gave it.Ezek.18.
There is nothing about the human body that has immortality at this time. That will be given to the redeemed at the second coming of Jesus Christ---as the scriptures indicate.

 

[sincerly]

sincerly said: ↑
Yes, Jesus was "torah" observant so that all things which were prophesied concerning HIM ----HE Fulfilled.
Jesus didn't agree with those "Traditions and commandments made by men(the fathers) " which were contradictory/contrary to those of the Creator GOD.

So we don't really need to walk as Yeshua walked then? John must have lied to us.

SL, Just where did you misunderstand my above? None of the Apostles lied to us. That is your belief.

 

[sincerly]

moorea944 said: ↑
But the point is, sometimes we have to look up the correct words because our "English" bibles are different from the Hebrew and Greek ones. Words HAVE been changed. And that can create a different meaning. Now we go down a different path. So that's why sometimes it's good to know if our translations are correct. My way of thinking anyhow...

I am grateful to have translations in our English. The KJV is not easy to read. However, I am not convinced that any translation would bring about a false doctrine. Is there any scripture from a translation that you think caused a false doctrine? If so, which one.

Moore, Yes, it is wise to check out the meanings of words in the various translations. Even in the original languages,(also) there is a tendency to use bias in newer versions to present what one favors. (That "serpent" is still in the business of subtly deceiving---"search the scriptures" is the only safe way.)

"Yes", This subject(present topic) is one you can start with in your list.
Then from Genesis---multiple wives---the Sabbath---etc, But, let's stay on topic.

 

[Simplelogic]

I misunderstand you because you are saying two different things.

You admit that Yeshua kept the whole Torah. You also admits that John says we should all walk just like Yeshua walked. Yet you don't really believe that. You believe that Yeshua provided us a way not to walk in accordance with the commandments. This is a farce.

 

[Yes]

sincerly said: ↑
"Yes", you have already acknowledged that the "soul" is the person therefore, the "spirit and the "soul" aren't the same. Nor will that verse above(Matt.10:18) work for the "spirit" not dying as you claim.
For the wicked, GOD will do the "killing"/destroying of life and body in the "fire".



"Yes", the "dust"/body isthe person made alive by the breath/"spirit"(Hebrew=ruahh; Greek=pneuma) of Life from GOD. It is said to be a "soul"(Hebrew=nehphesh; Greek=psuchee) by that process.

The "soul"/person is subject to death. and the "life" one has returns to the GOD--who gave it.Ezek.18.
There is nothing about the human body that has immortality at this time. That will be given to the redeemed at the second coming of Jesus Christ---as the scriptures indicate.

Our physical bodies are just that...a body. When we have our spirit in our body, it makes our bodies a soul. When our physical bodies die, our spirits live on.
God's breath gives us our spirits. OUR BREATH gives us oxygen.

 

[Yes]

moorea944 said: ↑
But the point is, sometimes we have to look up the correct words because our "English" bibles are different from the Hebrew and Greek ones. Words HAVE been changed. And that can create a different meaning. Now we go down a different path. So that's why sometimes it's good to know if our translations are correct. My way of thinking anyhow...



Moore, Yes, it is wise to check out the meanings of words in the various translations. Even in the original languages,(also) there is a tendency to use bias in newer versions to present what one favors. (That "serpent" is still in the business of subtly deceiving---"search the scriptures" is the only safe way.)

"Yes", This subject(present topic) is one you can start with in your list.
Then from Genesis---multiple wives---the Sabbath---etc, But, let's stay on topic.

You haven't proven that any translation causes false doctrines.

 

[Yes]

I misunderstand you because you are saying two different things.

You admit that Yeshua kept the whole Torah. You also admits that John says we should all walk just like Yeshua walked. Yet you don't really believe that. You believe that Yeshua provided us a way not to walk in accordance with the commandments. This is a farce.

God does not command for us to be circumcised in the flesh anymore, for without the command from God, it becomes mutilation of the flesh, just as Paul says. Philippians 32 Watch out for those dogs, those evildoers, those mutilators of the flesh.

Observing special days is WORTHLESS now. It means nothing. All those special days were about JESUS. Jesus has come, and we are to observe Jesus all day and everyday. We are to live though him.

Sacrificing an animal is HORRIFIC NOW. Jesus is the Sacrificial Lamb of God.

 

[sincerly]

Our physical bodies are just that...a body. When we have our spirit in our body, it makes our bodies a soul. When our physical bodies die, our spirits live on.
God's breath gives us our spirits. OUR BREATH gives us oxygen.

"Yes", GOD'S "Breath" gave the "breath of life" to that molded "dust" and with that "Life", one became a living "being"/"person".

 

[Yes]

"Yes", GOD'S "Breath" gave the "breath of life" to that molded "dust" and with that "Life", one became a living "being"/"person".

You have not proven that our spirits die and no longer live after the death of our body.

God's breath gave us our spirits.

Some people even have out of body experiences.

Our spirits live on after the death of our bodies.

 

[sincerly]

sincerly said: ↑ "Yes", This subject(present topic) is one you can start with in your list.
Then from Genesis---multiple wives---the Sabbath---etc, But, let's stay on topic.

You haven't proven that any translation causes false doctrines.

God does not command for us to be circumcised in the flesh anymore, for without the command from God, it becomes mutilation of the flesh, just as Paul says. Philippians 32 Watch out for those dogs, those evildoers, those mutilators of the flesh.

Observing special days is WORTHLESS now. It means nothing. All those special days were about JESUS. Jesus has come, and we are to observe Jesus all day and everyday. We are to live though him.

Sacrificing an animal is HORRIFIC NOW. Jesus is the Sacrificial Lamb of God.

Jesus said, Mark 10:4-12 that "from the beginning" a man and a woman were to mate for life---not divorce and remarry another person. There are those who have changed the scriptural meaning.

Circumcision is correctly that of the heart as God stated in Deut.10:16-17.

"Special days"??? I asked about the seventh day weekly Sabbath. "Worthless now"??. NO! but it was/has been misinterpreted to mean another day of worship than the Day set aside, Blessed and Sanctified by GOD---and that by "tradition and commandment"/"Decree of man".
That has the all the earmarks of a "false doctrine".

 

[Yes]

sincerly said: ↑ "Yes", This subject(present topic) is one you can start with in your list.
Then from Genesis---multiple wives---the Sabbath---etc, But, let's stay on topic.



Jesus said, Mark 10:4-12 that "from the beginning" a man and a woman were to mate for life---not divorce and remarry another person. There are those who have changed the scriptural meaning.

Circumcision is correctly that of the heart as God stated in Deut.10:16-17.

"Special days"??? I asked about the seventh day weekly Sabbath. "Worthless now"??. NO! but it was/has been misinterpreted to mean another day of worship than the Day set aside, Blessed and Sanctified by GOD---and that by "tradition and commandment"/"Decree of man".
That has the all the earmarks of a "false doctrine".

Again, you have not disproved anything that I said.

 

[sincerly]

sincerly said: ↑
"Yes", GOD'S "Breath" gave the "breath of life" to that molded "dust" and with that "Life", one became a living "being"/"person".

You have not proven that our spirits die and no longer live after the death of our body.

God's breath gave us our spirits.

Some people even have out of body experiences.

Our spirits live on after the death of our bodies.

You haven't proven that a "spirit" is anything other than a :
"the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated

the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides"

(i.e.)having "LIFE" of itself.

 

[sincerly]

Again, you have not disproved anything that I said.

The Scriptures do not give credence to your claims.

 

[moorea944]

You haven't proven that any translation causes false doctrines.

I was going to post them for you, but I"m not, only because that, anything that I usually post if wrong in your eyes anyhow. So I"ll just pass on this one thank you.

 

[rrosskopf]

There is NO Living entity within a person that is distinct from the person as a living being. That is an erroneous Scriptural assessment.

How many direct quotes do you need to believe that there is a spirit in man, that comes from another place and that goes to another place after death?

"I knew you before I formed you in your mother's womb. Before you were born I set you apart and appointed you as my prophet to the nations."
- Jeremiah 1:5
"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them."
- Job 1:6
"Since we respected our earthly fathers who disciplined us, shouldn't we submit even more to the discipline of the Father of our spirits, and live forever?"
- Hebrews 12:9

According to the Oxford Dictionary, Sheol and Hades "refer to a general dwelling place of souls after death."

"upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell(Hades) shall not prevail against it."
- Matthew 16:18
One possible interpretation of this verse is that the gates of Hades would not prevent the gospel from being taught to the spirits in Hades.

Clement of Alexandria taught that the apostles as well as Christ went to and taught the spirits in Hades.
"And it has been shown also…that the apostles, following the Lord, preached the Gospel to those in Hades. For it was requisite, in my opinion, that as here, so also there, the best of the disciples should be imitators of the master..."

What more do you need to believe?

 

[rrosskopf]

There is nothing in the Bible about having to look up words of another language.

Didn't every author of the Bible speak Hebrew?

(This is the place where you agree with me that I have a solid point.)

 

[BummerBeavis]

I think

John 5:28-30 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice [29] and come out---those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. [30] By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

It is common to say "This person has gone to be with the Lord", "He is looking at us from heaven now". But according to this verse, that is not so. Those who have believed in Christ and been baptized in His name for the remission of their sins, when they die, stay in their graves until Jesus returns. I recently heard Pat Robertson say that a person's spirit goes to heaven, but they are reunited with their body at the resurrection. As I understand it here, the dead will here his voice. I believe their spirit, not their bodies, hear his voice, but I could be wrong on that.
However, why have the final judgement, if everyone is already in heaven or hell?

Do you believe we are sent to our ultimate destinaton upon our death or at judgement day?

Thank you.

most

The scripture does not say they did not come from heaven.


Where do you get that sleeping is an unconscious death?


God's breath is our spirit. Our breath is our breath. Our breath leaves when the spirit God gave us leaves after the death of our bodies. God's breath and our breath are not the same thing.

i think most "christians" are going to Hell when they die. They will be judged to be Babylonian sun worshipers who never repented of their sins.

 

[BummerBeavis]

How many direct quotes do you need to believe that there is a spirit in man, that comes from another place and that goes to another place after death?

"I knew you before I formed you in your mother's womb. Before you were born I set you apart and appointed you as my prophet to the nations."
- Jeremiah 1:5
"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them."
- Job 1:6
"Since we respected our earthly fathers who disciplined us, shouldn't we submit even more to the discipline of the Father of our spirits, and live forever?"
- Hebrews 12:9

According to the Oxford Dictionary, Sheol and Hades "refer to a general dwelling place of souls after death."

"upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell(Hades) shall not prevail against it."
- Matthew 16:18
One possible interpretation of this verse is that the gates of Hades would not prevent the gospel from being taught to the spirits in Hades.

Clement of Alexandria taught that the apostles as well as Christ went to and taught the spirits in Hades.
"And it has been shown also…that the apostles, following the Lord, preached the Gospel to those in Hades. For it was requisite, in my opinion, that as here, so also there, the best of the disciples should be imitators of the master..."

What more do you need to believe?

since most all christians reject God's 10 commandments and never repented they will be going to hell

 

[rrosskopf]

since most all christians reject God's 10 commandments and never repented they will be going to hell

Since 9 times out of 10, "Hell" is a translation of Hades - the place where everyone goes when they die - then your statement makes little sense. Now if you are referring to Gehemma, or Tartarus, then I might agree. The popular Christian concept of hell is a false tradition - a tradition popularized by Dante.

Certainly though, all men will be judged and sent to a place befitting their faith or lack thereof.