Why would a just and loving God allow a serial killer to claim thirty victims?

[QuestioningMind]

I’ve never understood why a just and loving God would ever allow a serial killer to murder thirty innocent victims. I’ve heard the argument that it’s all because God gave his creation’s free will; that we are not robots programmed to do only as God desires, but have been given the freedom to choose to do good or to do evil. That’s all well and good. I can understand a God that allows his creations to make their own path in life and generously gives them the opportunity to repent for the atrocities they may commit.


However, this is the same God that has control over when you die. Clearly exercising this control over how long you remain within the Earthly realm does not violate a person’s free will; otherwise no one would die unless that was what they freely willed to have happen. So why would God wait until this serial killer has murdered thirty innocent victims before giving him a fatal heart attack at the age of sixty-seven? After the third or maybe even fourth victim, hasn’t this killer pretty much demonstrated an unwillingness to repent? Why didn’t God give him a heart attack after victim number four? Why would God allow this person to claim another twenty-six victims prior to ending his life?

 

[George-ananda]

However, this is the same God that has control over when you die.

Why do you see his control over when people die to be any different than his control over any other aspect of life?

 

[Thana]

I’ve never understood why a just and loving God would ever allow a serial killer to murder thirty innocent victims. I’ve heard the argument that it’s all because God gave his creation’s free will; that we are not robots programmed to do only as God desires, but have been given the freedom to choose to do good or to do evil. That’s all well and good. I can understand a God that allows his creations to make their own path in life and generously gives them the opportunity to repent for the atrocities they may commit.


However, this is the same God that has control over when you die. Clearly exercising this control over how long you remain within the Earthly realm does not violate a person’s free will; otherwise no one would die unless that was what they freely willed to have happen. So why would God wait until this serial killer has murdered thirty innocent victims before giving him a fatal heart attack at the age of sixty-seven? After the third or maybe even fourth victim, hasn’t this killer pretty much demonstrated an unwillingness to repent? Why didn’t God give him a heart attack after victim number four? Why would God allow this person to claim another twenty-six victims prior to ending his life?

Your example only works if one believes that death is bad and life is good.

 

[Mycroft]

Your example only works if one believes that death is bad and life is good.

What about getting shot up by a nutjob? Is that bad?

 

[QuestioningMind]

Why do you see his control over when people die to be any different than his control over any other aspect of life?

I'm talking in respect to free will. The argument is that God cannot program us not to kill innocent people, because it would violate our free will. God exercising his right to take your life can't be construed as denying a person free will, otherwise no one would ever die, unless that's what they freely willed to have happen.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Your example only works if one believes that death is bad and life is good.

I suppose it does. Are you suggesting that a serial killer is actually doing his/her victims a favor? Should doctors, who work to prolong life, be viewed as evil?

 

[Thana]

I suppose it does. Are you suggesting that a serial killer is actually doing his/her victims a favor? Should doctors, who work to prolong life, be viewed as evil?

No. Why do people have to make everything black and white?

Life ain't a party and death is no unfortunate tradegy since you know, we're literally born to die.
And no, I'm not going to thank a murderer but I'm not going to pity the murdered either.

 

[QuestioningMind]

No. Why do people have to make everything black and white?

Life ain't a party and death is no unfortunate tradegy since you know, we're literally born to die.
And no, I'm not going to thank a murderer but I'm not going to pity the murdered either.

You're certainly welcome to your opinion, but personally, even if we ARE designed to all die, I still find it to be an unfortunate tragedy when a young person's life and potential is cut short due to another person's inability to control their sick and destructive urges. I also find it a little bit sad that you apparently don't.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I’ve never understood why a just and loving God would ever allow a serial killer to murder thirty innocent victims. I’ve heard the argument that it’s all because God gave his creation’s free will; that we are not robots programmed to do only as God desires, but have been given the freedom to choose to do good or to do evil. That’s all well and good. I can understand a God that allows his creations to make their own path in life and generously gives them the opportunity to repent for the atrocities they may commit.


However, this is the same God that has control over when you die. Clearly exercising this control over how long you remain within the Earthly realm does not violate a person’s free will; otherwise no one would die unless that was what they freely willed to have happen. So why would God wait until this serial killer has murdered thirty innocent victims before giving him a fatal heart attack at the age of sixty-seven? After the third or maybe even fourth victim, hasn’t this killer pretty much demonstrated an unwillingness to repent? Why didn’t God give him a heart attack after victim number four? Why would God allow this person to claim another twenty-six victims prior to ending his life?

Is just and loving applicible to the God in question?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Why would God allow this person to claim another twenty-six victims prior to ending his life?

Don't know.

 

[Thana]

You're certainly welcome to your opinion, but personally, even if we ARE designed to all die, I still find it to be an unfortunate tragedy when a young person's life and potential is cut short due to another person's inability to control their sick and destructive urges. I also find it a little bit sad that you apparently don't.

Yeah, how sad that they get to avoid suffering and slowly dying from whatever disease they'll inevitably get whether it's the painful death of cancer or the slow decline into dementia. Yeah sure, pity the guys who get an instant, early death and don't have to live with debt or divorce or global warming or the infinite number of things that make life suck.

The only thing that was cut short are their bad experiences, and if you believe in the afterlife, actually even if you don't then the good experiences in life don't mean a damn thing because you'll either not exist and therefore not remember or you will exist for eternity in a place far, far better.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Yeah, how sad that they get to avoid suffering and slowly dying from whatever disease they'll inevitably get whether it's the painful death of cancer or the slow decline into dementia. Yeah sure, pity the guys who get an instant, early death and don't have to live with debt or divorce or global warming or the infinite number of things that make life suck.

The only thing that was cut short are their bad experiences, and if you believe in the afterlife, actually even if you don't then the good experiences in life don't mean a damn thing because you'll either not exist and therefore not remember or you will exist for eternity in a place far, far better.

I suppose that if your belief is that life is nothing but bad experiences and suffering, then your life probably does suck. Fortunately for most of us the love, beauty, and joy found in life far outweighs any negatives. I can almost guarantee that you could find those same positives in your life, if you'd just take the time to look for them.

 

[Revoltingest]

Why would God allow this person to claim another twenty-six victims prior to ending his life?

Perhaps God cannot control things at all, ie, the universe was set in motion, & proceeds without intervention being needed or even possible at such a minute level.

 

[Thana]

I suppose that if your belief is that life is nothing but bad experiences and suffering, then your life probably does suck. Fortunately for most of us the love, beauty, and joy found in life far outweighs any negatives. I can almost guarantee that you could find those same positives in your life, if you'd just take the time to look for them.

Spare me.
I enjoy my life as much as I humanly can and am grateful to God for all the blessings that He's given me.
I'm just not naive.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Spare me.
I enjoy my life as much as I humanly can and am grateful to God for all the blessings that He's given me.
I'm just not naive.

Where you apparently see feeling regret for the lost potential for joy and happiness of a murdered individual as being 'naive', I see it as reacting in a humane manner. And the fact that all you focused upon was the heartache and tragedy that such a murdered individual would be saved from, instead of the potential joy and happiness they would miss, makes you sound like someone who gets very little joy out of life.

 

[Thana]

Where you apparently see feeling regret for the lost potential for joy and happiness of a murdered individual as being 'naive', I see it as reacting in a humane manner. And the fact that all you focused upon was the heartache and tragedy that such a murdered individual would be saved from, instead of the potential joy and happiness they would miss, makes you sound like someone who gets very little joy out of life.

Actually I love my life.
I just realize that the happiness we get is not worth it, and isn't comparable to the peace of God and the mercy of death.

 

[idea]

10 And when Amulek saw the pains of the women and children who were consuming in the fire, he also was pained; and he said unto Alma: How can we witness this awful scene? Therefore let us stretch forth our hands, and exercise the power of God which is in us, and save them from the flames.

11 But Alma said unto him: The Spirit constraineth me that I must not stretch forth mine hand; for behold the Lord receiveth them up unto himself, in glory; and he doth suffer that they may do this thing, or that the people may do this thing unto them, according to the hardness of their hearts, that the judgments which he shall exercise upon them in his wrath may be just; and the blood of the innocent shall stand as a witness against them, yea, and cry mightily against them at the last day.

 

[neologist]

QuestioningMind,Wrote: ". . .However, this is the same God that has control over when you die. . . "

Clearly, whatever preachers you may have met have failed to tell you that the God who created our world is not currently the god who manages world affairs. Consider the exchange between Jesus and Satan recorded by Matthew in ch 4, vs 8-10: Satan offered Jesus control over all the world's kingdoms. He could not have done so if he did not have it. Indeed, he refers to Satan as "the ruler of this world" in John 14:30.

However, Satan's lease is about to expire.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Actually I love my life.
I just realize that the happiness we get is not worth it, and isn't comparable to the peace of God and the mercy of death.

Wow... it sure doesn't sound like you love your life very much, if you don't feel that the happiness you get from it is worth it. Sounds to me like you're overlooking the true joys of life if you look at death as a mercy and this life as something that's keeping you from it. How can you truly enjoy life if on some level you can't wait for it to be over?

 

[QuestioningMind]

10 And when Amulek saw the pains of the women and children who were consuming in the fire, he also was pained; and he said unto Alma: How can we witness this awful scene? Therefore let us stretch forth our hands, and exercise the power of God which is in us, and save them from the flames.

11 But Alma said unto him: The Spirit constraineth me that I must not stretch forth mine hand; for behold the Lord receiveth them up unto himself, in glory; and he doth suffer that they may do this thing, or that the people may do this thing unto them, according to the hardness of their hearts, that the judgments which he shall exercise upon them in his wrath may be just; and the blood of the innocent shall stand as a witness against them, yea, and cry mightily against them at the last day.

Pardon my ignorance, but that passage makes absolutely so sense to me. Is it saying that one should not take steps to save the lives of suffering people, because when those people die God with receive them upon himself, in glory? I'm confused.