The prophets tell us that THE SCRIBES HAD CHANGED THE GOD'S LAW

[Jayhawker Soule]

With that being said, there is evidence within the story that the character Jesus was learned.

Meaning?

 

[Brian Schuh]

Meaning?

Nothing, it means absolutely nothing. A poor Jew gets falsely tried and convicted for no reason. Now consider all the tens of millions of Jews who have died for no reason. Look, we are all better off to read Moby Dick than the New Testament. I know a poor rabbi who only thinks about Jesus once a year when he gets to a certain verse in his annual reading schedule. I wish I was more like him. Jesus? Who? Absolutely means nothing. I could think about Jesus less, and could care less.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I could think about Jesus less, and could care less.

Apparently not.

 

[metis]

About the historicity of the gospels, it is irrelevant. Many Jewish people people believe it to be fiction. When I study fiction, I suspend disbelief and take the story and characters as presented. Then I can anaylize the story. If you study the gospels the way you would Moby Dick or Shakespeare, then you see that you are studying the character Jesus and it no longer matters if there ever was such a person.

With that being said, there is evidence within the story that the character Jesus was learned.

The evidence is questionable, as I pointed out, so I don't take a position one way or the other. It is those who do take positions who are walking on thin ice.

 

[Porque77]

Secondly, the issue with "the scribes" was a reference to the fact that there was no established canon during their time, so different scribes were writing all sorts of things.

That you say you are wrong, because we are talking about the laws of the Old Testament, and Jews have such laws as "God's laws". I repeat: we are talking about the laws of the Old Testament.

When you get to Jesus' time, even though the canon still had not been solidified,

All wrong. The people received the Law under Moses. After, Jewish scribes changed the law and so was the Old Testament before Jesus Christ was born: The Law was changed with many precepts of men. Jesus again taught the true law of God.

nevertheless certain books stood out as being more accurate. Jesus, the apostles, and Paul ended up quoting or paraphrasing many of these books, so ask yourself why they would do that if said books were so inaccurate?

Jesus quoted the Old Testament precepts to abolish many commandments of the Old Testament.

Also, does your Bible contain these books or did you cut them out and thrown them into the garbage?

I can not do that. But Jesus Christ abolished many precepts of the Old Testament ... And abolished them because were only precepts of men. And so you can view the commandments abolished, you can read the following quotes from the Gospel:

Matthew 5:31-48, Matthew 12:1-8, Matthew 20:25-28, John 5:8-11, John 5:16-18, John 8:3-11 and the whole context of the Gospel.

 

[metis]

That you say you are wrong, because we are talking about the laws of the Old Testament, and Jews have such laws as "God's laws". I repeat: we are talking about the laws of the Old Testament.


All wrong. The people received the Law under Moses. After, Jewish scribes changed the law and so was the Old Testament before Jesus Christ was born: The Law was changed with many precepts of men. Jesus again taught the true law of God.


Jesus quoted the Old Testament precepts to abolish many commandments of the Old Testament.


I can not do that. But Jesus Christ abolished many precepts of the Old Testament ... And abolished them because were only precepts of men. And so you can view the commandments abolished, you can read the following quotes from the Gospel:

Matthew 5:31-48, Matthew 12:1-8, Matthew 20:25-28, John 5:8-11, John 5:16-18, John 8:3-11 and the whole context of the Gospel.

Then by the definition of what a "false prophet" is as described in the Tanakh, you are basically saying that Jesus was a "false prophet". I don't think it's likely that he was, but you do believe he subverted the Law, which maybe makes me more of a "Christian" than you.

Anyhow, you make assertions that are virtually impossible to collaborate in any way, so I'll let you just go in the direction of your fantasies because you simply are unwilling to study and learn.

BTW, Jesus' terminology "laws made by men" does not refer to the Mosaiic Law, plus Jesus told his followers to go follow the teachings of the scribes, just don't emulate their behavior.

 

[Porque77]

BTW, Jesus' terminology "laws made by men" does not refer to the Mosaiic Law, plus Jesus told his followers to go follow the teachings of the scribes, just don't emulate their behavior.

Of course not. The Mosaic Law is what Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel ... Jesus Christ is God and He came to teach men the true law of God.

Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament ... And abolished them because those precepts were not commandments of God.

 

[Porque77]

Still makes no sense. Why would the scribes then write down what the Prophets told?

I mean you have basic logic don't you?

It makes perfect sense, because the prophets warn the people that the scribes changed the law of God ... and this is written by the prophets, not by the scribes.

 

[viole]

Dear friends, I have studied the writings of the prophets, and I found several quotes that make me think what happened to God's Law.


The writings of the prophets tell us that God's law was changed.


The prophets tell us that the scribes had changed the God's Law

The Mosaic covenant and law were given by God, but after the years and centuries, the prophets tell us that the scribes changed the law of God. So tell us the prophets:

"... My people know not the judgment of Yahweh. How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Certainly has changed into a lie the lying pen of the scribes" (Jeremiah 8: 7-9).

"Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)

"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24: 5-6).

"He says, therefore, the Lord: Because this people draw near me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me, and their fear of me is a commandment of men which have been taught" (Isaiah 29.13).

And Jesus Christ, remembering the words of the prophet Isaiah, also told the scribes and Pharisees who were teaching the commandments of men:

"Hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
This people honors me with their lips;
But their heart is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me,
Teaching for doctrines commandments of men" (Matthew 15.7-9

Dear friends, this is what happened, what the prophets tell us: The God's law was changed by the scribes. The Old Testament's law is different to the commandments of Jesus Christ.

Logically, they can only be right.

For if they re not right, then they are not prophets. Which implies that the Scriptures that declares them as prophets have been corrupted; which leads to a contradiction.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Porque77]

Logically, they can only be right.

For if they re not right, then they are not prophets. Which implies that the Scriptures that declares them as prophets have been corrupted; which leads to a contradiction.

There is no contradiction, because what is corrupted is what wrote the scribes who changed the law of God into a lie. The prophets explain us what did the scribes. And the writings of the prophets are not written by the scribes who changed the law of God. They are different writings.

You must understand that in the scriptures there is no wheat and weeds, and the weeds is all that contradicts the Gospel. But all that coincides with the teachings of the Gospel is wheat.

 

[Porque77]

Then by the definition of what a "false prophet" is as described in the Tanakh, you are basically saying that Jesus was a "false prophet"........

No, I do not say what you say. Jesus is God who became Man and revealed in the Gospel the true commandments of God. False prophets are what they teach commandments contrary to the commandments that Jesus taught us.

I don't think it's likely that he was, but you do believe he subverted the Law, which maybe makes me more of a "Christian" than you.

Jesus did not subvert the God's Law. He teaches us the true Law of God, because the God's Law was changed by scribes, as the prophets say:

"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)

"Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)

"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24: 5-6).

"Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, they have falsified the law". (Zephaniah 3:4)

" My covenant was with him of life and peace........ The law of truth was in his mouth....... But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts" (Malachi 2:5-8)

And Jesus Christ, remembering the words of the prophet Isaiah, also told the scribes and Pharisees who were teaching the commandments of men:

"Hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
This people honors me with their lips;
But their heart is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me,
Teaching for doctrines commandments of men" (Matthew 15.7-9

Dear friends, this is what happened, what the prophets tell us: The God's law was changed by the scribes. For this reason, the Old Testament's law is different to the commandments of Jesus Christ.

 

[paarsurrey]

No, I do not say what you say. Jesus is God who became Man and revealed in the Gospel the true commandments of God. False prophets are what they teach commandments contrary to the commandments that Jesus taught us.
Jesus did not subvert the God's Law. He teaches us the true Law of God, because the God's Law was changed by scribes, as the prophets say:
"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)
"Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)
"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24: 5-6).
"Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, they have falsified the law". (Zephaniah 3:4)
" My covenant was with him of life and peace........ The law of truth was in his mouth....... But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts" (Malachi 2:5-8)
And Jesus Christ, remembering the words of the prophet Isaiah, also told the scribes and Pharisees who were teaching the commandments of men:
"Hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
This people honors me with their lips;
But their heart is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me,
Teaching for doctrines commandments of men" (Matthew 15.7-9
Dear friends, this is what happened, what the prophets tell us: The God's law was changed by the scribes. For this reason, the Old Testament's law is different to the commandments of Jesus Christ.

It unequivocally correct from the above that Torah had been changed and corrupted by Judaism's narrators/scribes/clergy.
The Christianity people did the same in the very start and changed the teaching of Jesus altogether.
Kindly read post #19 in this connection. Please
Regards

 

[metis]

It unequivocally correct from the above that Torah had been changed and corrupted by Judaism's narrators/scribes/clergy.
The Christianity people did the same in the very start and changed the teaching of Jesus altogether.
Kindly read post #19 in this connection. Please
Regards

The DSS clearly shows you are largely wrong, as there are only minor errors found between then and what we read today.

 

[paarsurrey]

The DSS clearly shows you are largely wrong, as there are only minor errors found between then and what we read today.

What does DSS mean? Please
Regards

 

[metis]

Dead Sea Scrolls.

 

[paarsurrey]

Dead Sea Scrolls.

Do Dead Sea Scrolls cover

1. all the period from Moses
2. and all the books of Torah? Please

Regards

 

[metis]

Do Dead Sea Scrolls cover

1. all the period from Moses
2. and all the books of Torah? Please

Regards

The point is that there has been remarkable accuracy over the last 2000 years, so why should anyone suspect that the previous 1000 years would be any different? Were you there to actually see what was written and whether it changed a thousand years later?

 

[Muffled]

"The Law of Christ is the law of God, Moses received God's law (the law of Christ) ..."
Did Jesus say it? Please don't add words in the mouth of Jesus.
Regards

John 8:28 Jesus therefore said, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself, but as the Father taught me, I speak these things.

 

[Muffled]

However, no one is under the laws of the Old Testament that were abolished by Jesus Christ, because many of these laws were not true Law of God.

I don't believe I have ever seen anything other than that they were laws of God. I don't believe Jesus abolished anything but fulfilled them instead. That may simply mean that a law has no value in the New Covenant but it does not invalidate the Old Covenant.

 

[paarsurrey]

John 8:28 Jesus therefore said, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself, but as the Father taught me, I speak these things.

John 8:28

27They did not understand that He was telling them about the Father. 28So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing on My own, but speak exactlywhat the Father has taught Me. 29He who sent Me is with Me. He has not left Me alone, because I always do what pleases Him.”…
http://biblehub.com/john/8-28.htm

This itself is a classic proof of how the Christian people make corruption. These verses, as one could see them were not at all words of Jesus. This is only a narration of John of the incident happened. Right?

Regards