One Day in and Trump attacks the Planet

[psychoslice]

As if people have to make things up. Please.

Ha, your naive.

 

[icehorse]

Those who hate Trump will find anything in vain to throw at him.

There are good actions and not-so-good actions. Personally I don't care either way about trump - but i care about the actions or inactions he takes.

I'm of the opinion that our great grand children are going to loathe us all for what we did to our planet. No topsoil, no fish, no clean water, bad air...

 

[Sha'irullah]

Well all he has to do is remove Bomba Care, initiate an appropriate program to remove illegals, leave NATO, and engage in war with ISIS.

Yup yup. I will be happy

 

[Twilight Hue]

Which would you like to eliminate first? The regulations on labor, the environment, banking, etc.? You might want to find out just who is protected, it might be you.

Any of the unessessary ones.

 

[icehorse]

The federal government has no Constitutional authority to do most of what it's doing, including that point.

Hmmm, I hadn't heard that. As I recall, the feds have the authority to aid commerce, no?

 

[Curious George]

Hmmm, I hadn't heard that. As I recall, the feds have the authority to aid commerce, no?

Funny the Commerce clause is always attacked by both sides when it is the constitutional authority. Libertarians of course usually attack this consistently because they want a weak federal government never-ending that our country wouldn't be a country if they had their way.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Funny the Commerce clause is always attacked by both sides when it is the constitutional authority. Libertarians of course usually attack this consistently because they want a weak federal government never-ending that our country wouldn't be a country if they had their way.

To us Libertarians the country would remain a country but with STATE RIGHTS. Simple enough

 

[Curious George]

To us Libertarians the country would remain a country but with STATE RIGHTS. Simple enough

A country that would have spun into chaos long ago. We tried a weak central government, it didn't work.

Were libertarians given their way, many rural areas wouldn't have electricity, monopolies would run amuck, the environment would be trashed, and Segregation would be alive and well. It is not the federal government that is strong, it is the United will of the people. You may not like people in other states having some degree of control over your state, but it is what has kept this country from being destroyed. Were it not for that, states would have seceded from the union and built standing armies long ago. The several states need a check and balance on their authority as well. While we can certainly find instances where government has overstepped, the fantasy of libertariansome is just that--fantasy.

 

[Revoltingest]

A country that would have spun into chaos long ago. We tried a weak central government, it didn't work.

Were libertarians given their way, many rural areas wouldn't have electricity, monopolies would run amuck, the environment would be trashed, and Segregation would be alive and well. It is not the federal government that is strong, it is the United will of the people. You may not like people in other states having some degree of control over your state, but it is what has kept this country from being destroyed. Were it not for that, states would have seceded from the union and built standing armies long ago. The several states need a check and balance on their authority as well. While we can certainly find instances where government has overstepped, the fantasy of libertariansome is just that--fantasy.

You make us sound really dangerous.
Good!

 

[Curious George]

You make us sound really dangerous.
Good!

Not dangerous, foolhardy. While I agree with libertarians on many issues, the extreme for which they strive is a thin line before either an anarchy or an oligarchy depending upon the libertarian with who you are speaking.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Which doesn't sound too bad. I'm all for protecting the environment. 110%

That means directing policy in a direction that acknowledges climate change, if for no other reason than there are plenty of other reasons to go in the same direction.

Those who hate Trump will find anything in vain to throw at him.

If any non-living entity deserves the protections bestowed upon humans, it is not corporations but rather the Earth. Without the Earth, there is no us. With destroyed, polluted, and poisoned environments, we suffer. We are going to run out of fossil fuels anyways, we do know pollution is bad for a number of other reasons, and anyone with a shred of foresight can plainly see those investing in and researching and developing sustainable energy are riding the wave of the future.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Not dangerous, foolhardy. While I agree with libertarians on many issues, the extreme for which they strive is a thin line before either an anarchy or an oligarchy depending upon the libertarian with who you are speaking.

Personally, for me, it depends on the Libertarian. Some of them do have dangerous ideas (such as Nozick's "ultra-minimal-state" that doesn't even provide for a military, let alone public services and utilities), while some of them show a streak of generosity even though they are interpreting the economic world strictly by the numbers. But, yes, some are foolhardy enough to believe it's a good idea to build an artificial island free of building codes.

 

[Sha'irullah]

A country that would have spun into chaos long ago. We tried a weak central government, it didn't work.

Were libertarians given their way, many rural areas wouldn't have electricity, monopolies would run amuck, the environment would be trashed, and Segregation would be alive and well. It is not the federal government that is strong, it is the United will of the people. You may not like people in other states having some degree of control over your state, but it is what has kept this country from being destroyed. Were it not for that, states would have seceded from the union and built standing armies long ago. The several states need a check and balance on their authority as well. While we can certainly find instances where government has overstepped, the fantasy of libertariansome is just that--fantasy.

We tried one and it did. End of story, everything else you said can only be said by somebody who has not cracked open a 3rd grade history book.

 

[Curious George]

We tried one and it did. End of story, everything else you said can only be said by somebody who has not cracked open a 3rd grade history book.

Yes because the articles of confederation lasted so long.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Yes because the articles of confederation lasted so long.

What? Do you even know what I am referring to? I never implied going back that far!

If somebody says: "I would not like to live in Japan. They have too many ronin around and the samurai are not very friendly." Would you not correct them that you are referring to modern Japan? You are selectively picking the most archaic period in American history to prove a mundane point. Even if the states did not unify, look at California and its economy along with historical Texas.

They are STATES, not slave towns. Somebody wishes to inflict their will on the southern states because they dislike their attitude and wanted to secede. So what? Not even Islam could keep a hold on its institution of slavery and anyone would know a bunch of farmers worshiping Jesus would not as well.

Now it is pointless to argue about alternative history, I understand that is a total crap shoot. Still though, states rights ensures a happy society along with mutual trade agreements. Let money talk and let capital flow

 

[Curious George]

What? Do you even know what I am referring to? I never implied going back that far!

If somebody says: "I would not like to live in Japan. They have too many ronin around and the samurai are not very friendly." Would you not correct them that you are referring to modern Japan? You are selectively picking the most archaic period in American history to prove a mundane point. Even if the states did not unify, look at California and its economy along with historical Texas.

They are STATES, not slave towns. Somebody wishes to inflict their will on the southern states because they dislike their attitude and wanted to secede. So what? Not even Islam could keep a hold on its institution of slavery and anyone would know a bunch of farmers worshiping Jesus would not as well.

Now it is pointless to argue about alternative history, I understand that is a total crap shoot. Still though, states rights ensures a happy society along with mutual trade agreements. Let money talk and let capital flow

We have states rights. The principles of federalism are important. I don't think anyone disputes that. But certain aspects are far too important to remain in the exclusive domain of states rights. Especially when we are speaking of constitutionally protected rights. Or resources that are part of our country. Without a strong central government nothing prevents states from negatively impacting natural resources of other states. Nothing limits corporations from monopolizing industry and crushing the free market (or our version thereof).

Either for youth or magical thinking libertarians think everything will just work out. Bad news, it doesn't.

 

[buddhist]

Hmmm, I hadn't heard that. As I recall, the feds have the authority to aid commerce, no?

No, the feds were simply delegated power to regulate commerce between the several States.

 

[buddhist]

Funny the Commerce clause is always attacked by both sides when it is the constitutional authority. Libertarians of course usually attack this consistently because they want a weak federal government never-ending that our country wouldn't be a country if they had their way.

It wasn't meant to be a country. It was meant to be multiple sovereign countries (aka States) in a common federation, e.g.:

• From the Declaration of Independence (still in effect as one of the four organic Laws): "We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America ... solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States ... and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do."
• Treaty of 1783, ending the Revolutionary War between Britain and the several united States: "His Britannic Majesty acknowledges the said United States, viz., New Hampshire, Massachusetts Bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia to be free, sovereign and independent States; that he treats with them as such."
• Supreme Court (1796, Ware v Hilton): "each of them was a sovereign and independent State, that is, that each of them had a right to govern itself by its own authority, and its own laws without any control from any other power on earth ... all laws made by the legislatures of the several States, after the Declaration of Independence, were the laws of sovereign and independent governments."
• Supreme Court (1808, McIlvaine vs. Coxe’s Lessee): “The several States which composed this Union . . . became entitled, from the time when they declared themselves independent, to all the rights and powers of sovereign States."

 

[buddhist]

Yes because the articles of confederation lasted so long.

The Articles of Confederation is still in effect as organic Law.

 

[Curious George]

It wasn't meant to be a country. It was meant to be multiple sovereign countries (aka States) in a common federation, e.g.:

• From the Declaration of Independence (still in effect as one of the four organic Laws): "We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America ... solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States ... and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do."
• Treaty of 1783, ending the Revolutionary War between Britain and the several united States: "His Britannic Majesty acknowledges the said United States, viz., New Hampshire, Massachusetts Bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia to be free, sovereign and independent States; that he treats with them as such."
• Supreme Court (1796, Ware v Hilton): "each of them was a sovereign and independent State, that is, that each of them had a right to govern itself by its own authority, and its own laws without any control from any other power on earth ... all laws made by the legislatures of the several States, after the Declaration of Independence, were the laws of sovereign and independent governments."
• Supreme Court (1808, McIlvaine vs. Coxe’s Lessee): “The several States which composed this Union . . . became entitled, from the time when they declared themselves independent, to all the rights and powers of sovereign States."

Except it didn't work. So we changed it.