Life after death

[Unveiled Artist]

I believe my soul lives forever and that it will once again be connected to a body which is me; but this time in a utopian paradise with no pain, suffering, death, evil, and etc.

No, I don't look forward to having my soul yanked out of my body at death. It's best to hope it won't be too stressful; no sense expecting the worse and worrying all the time.

Have you thought about death without having a soul (etc)?

 

[tayla]

Have you thought about death without having a soul (etc)?

Why should I? I don't think about what it would be like to live on mars either.

 

[idea]

I believe existence of everything is eternal - the conservation laws, conservation of mass, conservation of energy, of information and intelligence - everything that now exists has always and will always exist, changing from one form to another - nothing magically appears or magically disappears, everything simply eternally changes form.

What happens to our intelligence when it leaves our body? I do not know. Sometimes you do not want to know the end of the book, surprise endings are enjoyable, mysteries are part of the spice of life - so just enjoy the mystery, stay open minded and able to embrace anything that comes. I think one of the secrets of life is learning to embrace anything, and everything - not forcing anything to be one way or another, not getting your hopes up for any one scenario, to let go of controlling or pretending to understand it all, and finding ways to enjoy what is.

Come what may, and love it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Why should I? I don't think about what it would be like to live on mars either.

If not, why answer?

Im wondering whoever have comtemplated death whether curiousity, wonder, I dont know, for kicks have they done so without thought of a soul, rebirth, moska, or afterlife.

If that doesnt fit your position, what other point are you making?

 

[Akivah]

But wait, a couple of things here. God is written as God, I'm not too sure why Judaists write it as G_d but that's how you go I guess.

We do it to show respect for the Divine Name. On the computer, it is too easy for documents to get deleted. If I typed the Lord's name out, then it could get erased and I don't consider that to be respectful. Therefore, I use a substitute for the Divine Name that we all know what meaning I'm conveying. I never write any part of the Hebraic name for the Lord at all, as I consider it too holy.

here's a couple of old testament lines for you to remind you of that love....I could probably find a few more.

Don't bother quoting Christian testament verses to me, I put no authority into your book. Neither of them that you typed are accurate quotations from the Hebrew bible.

I accept that God is not like us ...

No you don't. You believe that a human looking person is your god.

 

[Akivah]

I had no idea that Mormons actually borrowed some of the Talmud's ideas, i.e. that all souls are in heaven in some kind of holding chamber waiting to be given to humans born on earth. I did not know that some Jews even believed this.

Perhaps you can help me out? Surely the Torah would teach this if it were scriptural truth?

I see that it is the "spirit" that departs in this verse, not the "soul". Is there a difference according to Jewish belief?

It was also interesting that this teaching of a spiritual existence after death is not held by all, in fact the majority do not believe that, as the following quote from your link highlights....

"Some authorities maintain that what the sages called Olam Haba (the "Future World" or "World to Come") refers to the spiritual dimension that the soul enters after leaving the body. The majority, however, consider Olam Haba as a completely new stage of earth life which will be ushered in only after the Messianic Age and the Resurrection of the Dead."

I cannot find Olam HaNeshamot in the Torah either.

As I wrote earlier, the Hebrew bible is for the living. The fact that so little appears in it regarding the afterlife is proof to us that G-d didn't consider it to be all that important. Therefore, Judaism doesn't put much importance on it either, unlike Christianity. So I don't understand your zeal in going on about it. There are far more important topics to talk about.

The teachings of the Talmud appear to be very different to what is in the Torah, in that there is no mention of immortal souls in the Torah at all.

The Talmud never contradicts the Hebrew bible. It expounds on it and broaches new topics (like the afterlife) that don't appear in our bible.

So which do you accept? Do Jews have a choice about what to believe?

We don't have a central authority that tells us what to believe. We are expected to study the text with a knowledgeable teacher and determine our own beliefs. Regarding the afterlife, there is a large variability in beliefs amongst Jews.

It is so interesting for me to explore the beliefs of others particularly of those who purport to worship the God of Abraham.....such diversity of belief has to have originated from somewhere...but which one has the approval of the true God?

What do you mean, "those who purport to worship G-d"? The definition of 'Purport' normally means claims that are false.

The diversity of belief is due to the lack of details about the afterlife. G-d said that it was beyond our understanding, so all we've got is speculation.

G-d obviously doesn't care about our specific beliefs regarding the afterlife, otherwise He would've told us specifics.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

Comments in bold.

I'm actually on my phone. My laptop was stolen from my apartment and I dont have a desktop nearby. Even though we are communicating, our perspectives (my screen vs yours), my interpretations (do I disagree with you or find agreement), and conclusions (what your gender is) are not universal. These things make up religion. Unless we know everything, we cant assume we are both on the same computer.

Perspectives are not universal. But reality is. That's the elephant, the coherent whole. A theological professor put it this way. There is a tool on a table. A nuclear physicist knows it's a geiger (spelling?) counter. A layman knows it's some kind of measurement device since it has a meter thing. A caveman doesn't understand they are in a lab, and don't even see the thing on the table as a tool. All of this doesn't change the fact that there is a lab, a table, and a device. Common reality, different perspective. I can safely assume that you are not using a "computer" that breathes and bleeds and plugs into your brain.

We cant assume we feel the same elephant when the fact is our experiences are so drastically different that to know if your guess is true, we would have to take off our blinds. Here is a good analogy by Plato, Myth of the Cave, if interested.

Full text of "Plato The Republic & Allegory of the Cave"

I too have read the allegory of the cave. Consider the prisoners. They live together in the cave. When the one guy goes out he exits to a world that is completely startling to them, since they have a very narrow and limited understanding. But there is the cave, and the world outside.

Dont read any of the summaries and anaylsis before reading the analogy. Took me a while to find it.

No. We are both blind thinking just because we live around each other we share one reality. Its a good ideal because human nature tries to find what we have in common. Thats an illusion, we dont. Even our fingerprints say that and not even twins have the same fingerprints.

Comparative Religion - The Ultimate Reality in world religions

The author sees surface-level differences and decides they have nothing in common. I read this, and wound up with a completely different view. From Hinduism, we have an impersonal force above all gods and existence coming from a formless state. From Buddhism, the world exists because of causal actions, and humans are trapped in a cycle of rebirth. From Taoism we have a law of opposing forces. From Judaism, we have a single God, which is the creator of all things (essentially Brahman, except a personal being rather than impersonal force). Shintoism has spirits and nature, and the divine exists in all things. Christianity puts it all together. We have a deity as Creator (like Judaism), we have a universal soul as Comforter (kami like Shinto, paramatman/atman like Hinduism, and so on), and we have a god-in-person as Savior (parallels many avatar legends, esp Krishna). Oh sure, you can see it as nothing in common, but it's like a 3d puzzle, sometimes if it doesn't fit one way, it fits another.

I think its the human mind that tries to make sense of our different realities (the parts of an elephant). It would be pompous for me to believe as fact that you are only touching a part of a whole. We'd have to take off our blinds.

What "one truth" folks have is a good educated guess. I used to study among the Deaf, have my own LGBT identity, nationality, cultural, and so forth, we all are different. Hearing trying to make Deaf have one culture in a hearing environment. People are telling us rainbows should be one color or part of a whole (rather than a whole from its parts). We are supposed to think the same at our core even though our whole worldview (the parts) does nothing to describe the whole.

We try, we do. I think its a comfort thing. Who knows.

Also been in the LGBT community. Decided ultimately that I wasn't trans, but genderfluid. Perspective is not the whole. And it can be wildly different. But this doesn't invalidate the whole. We all live inside this reality.

If all were the same source, we'd all know gods (not god) exist since there are soo many religions who have a polytheistic view that our reality should reflect the polytheistic view. It doesnt. Probably thousands of years ago. I was never soft to trust something or someone so much it defines my life. If its not unique to myself (say my art expression), I see no internal value. Thats how I see life.

How do you figure that? There are so many gods, but ultimately, it is uncertain whether one deity controls all of this or several. In order to really validate one or the other, you would have to run a psych test to determine whether this behavior was consistent with a single pattern or several.

Haha. Thanks.

I understand what you guys mean by whole. The most important, its individual parts. I can assume, if I wanted, that the parts make up a whole but I have no evidence of that. Until two people have the same fingerprint, I find it less, how would I say, oppressive to define people by their parts not their whole.

At least thats my experience with minorities Im around. The majority put us in a box. That limits me. Though, like the analogy, people are comfortable with that reality.

Whatever floats ones boat?

Pretty much. Which was my point all along. The whole is the worshipers and the reality they live in. How you look at it is pretty much up to you.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Comments in bold.

I can't address your comments. I separate quotes so I can read and understand what you (and others) are saying; since, I can't do that in one lump sum.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

If not, why answer?

Im wondering whoever have comtemplated death whether curiousity, wonder, I dont know, for kicks have they done so without thought of a soul, rebirth, moska, or afterlife.

If that doesnt fit your position, what other point are you making?

In such a world, nobody with conflicting opinions would be able to respond.

Have you thought of what it would be like, eating jellyfish (or some other unwanted thing) for dessert? Because that's basically what you're asking. "Have you thought of something completely unwanted?" "Ummm, no..." "Well, you not? Also, you don't have a valid opinion."

 

[Unveiled Artist]

In such a world, nobody with conflicting opinions would be able to respond.

Have you thought of what it would be like, eating jellyfish (or some other unwanted thing) for dessert? Because that's basically what you're asking. "Have you thought of something completely unwanted?" "Ummm, no..." "Well, you not? Also, you don't have a valid opinion."

I have a good imagination since I write and do a lot of creative expression. So, I'm able to step outside myself and actually think of eating jellyfish in the desert, ask why I have five fingers instead of six, and close my eyes and pretend I have five eyes, three arms, and fifty feet. Not everyone can answer hypothetical; that is alright.

Those who have answered seem to understand the nature of it without needing to go deeper into why, how, when, and who.

Of course, there is always one or two people on RF that likes to flip things over. No pun intended.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

That would be you.

You said... to which they responded.

Unveiled Artist said: ↑ Have you thought about death without having a soul (etc)?

Why should I? I don't think about what it would be like to live on mars either.

I said...

In such a world, nobody with conflicting opinions would be able to respond.

Have you thought of what it would be like, eating jellyfish (or some other unwanted thing) for dessert? Because that's basically what you're asking. "Have you thought of something completely unwanted?" "Ummm, no..." "Well, you not? Also, you don't have a valid opinion."

And you chose to focus on...

Have you thought of what it would be like, eating jellyfish (or some other unwanted thing) for dessert?

Completely missed the point. You kinda did this with my posts too.

 

[Thaif]

We do it to show respect for the Divine Name. On the computer, it is too easy for documents to get deleted. If I typed the Lord's name out, then it could get erased and I don't consider that to be respectful. Therefore, I use a substitute for the Divine Name that we all know what meaning I'm conveying. I never write any part of the Hebraic name for the Lord at all, as I consider it too holy.

And yet you are happy to discuss religion on this forum which seems a hot bed for atheists and sceptics.

Don't bother quoting Christian testament verses to me, I put no authority into your book. Neither of them that you typed are accurate quotations from the Hebrew bible.

Very well then, how about the English translation of the Hebrew of the Proverbs quote
Proverbs 3 :11,12
My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of hiscorrection:
For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son [in whom] he delighteth.

Admittedly, the Joel quote does not mention God's love so here's a replacement from Hosea 3:1
Then said the LORD unto me, Go yet, love a woman beloved of [her] friend, yet an adulteress,
according to the love of the LORD toward the children of Israel, who look to other gods, and love
flagons of wine.

No you don't. You believe that a human looking person is your god.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion, would you care to expand on that?

 

[Akivah]

And yet you are happy to discuss religion on this forum which seems a hot bed for atheists and sceptics.

So?

Very well then, how about the English translation of the Hebrew of the Proverbs quote
Proverbs 3 :11,12
My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of hiscorrection:
For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son [in whom] he delighteth.

Admittedly, the Joel quote does not mention God's love so here's a replacement from Hosea 3:1
Then said the LORD unto me, Go yet, love a woman beloved of [her] friend, yet an adulteress,
according to the love of the LORD toward the children of Israel, who look to other gods, and love
flagons of wine.

The verses quoted are still somewhat mangled. However, you're missing the point. Yes, you can find verses that mention G-d's love for us in the Hebrew bible. Christians do it differently though, viewing love as a prime attribute of G-d.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion, would you care to expand on that?

Do you worship Jesus?

 

[Hawkins]

If you believe in life after death, whatever that means to you, and those who do not, how do you feel (of all ages) at the moment that you will No Longer exists; no soul and no spirit, no reincarnation, no rebirth, no...?

I do know many will say "I'm not afraid", some will use their age as reasons for not fearing death, others have a real deep seeded believe in the afterlife, others just do not care.

To me, that is taking life for granted. That is saying I know how I will feel at death: terminal illness, slow death, very painful, so have you. We dont get to acceptence until later when we are pass "the surprise", the I didnt know it would be today, there will always be some view of death whether comforted by religion or age.

If you were to die right now at this exact moment, how would you feel about death when you have no soul, no spirit, no reincarnation, no rebirth, no heaven, no...?

Is it something you have Actually thought about for more than five mins without your age and/or faith (or ego?) to console you?

Do you want to think about it?

The more I think about it, the more I believe less of any after life, reincarnation, and rebirth. Right before my aunt passed this year january, she told my mother, her sister: you know religion is all... right?

Ive been saying that for years, mother says.

If there is near death experiences or believe in god right before death, I dont believe it. A week after that convo, she died.

What do you think of death-no soul, no spirit, no rebirth, no reincarnation, no...?

If so, then why worry? You only need to worry about the opposite. As humans , you don't need to worry about "no bad things" lying ahead. You only need to consider the warnings about something bad could possibly lying ahead.

The analogy is when you are tied up on the two tracks of trains, why do you have to assume that what if no train ever coming? Of course, under the circumstance that humans don't have the capability to know the future, "assuming that no train will come" can give you a piece of mind. That's what you (Unveiled Artist) are having. Your such a peace of mind is complete rely the assumption that nothing bad can happen after death, which however is just a good wish not a fact. It is a good wish just as good as "no train will come".

Others may choose to get them prepared in order to face an unknown future.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If so, then why worry? You only need to worry about the opposite. As humans , you don't need to worry about "no bad things" lying ahead. You only need to consider the warnings about something bad could possibly lying ahead.

The analogy is when you are tied up on the two tracks of trains, why do you have to assume that what if no train ever coming? Of course, under the circumstance that humans don't have the capability to know the future, "assuming that no train will come" can give you a piece of mind. That's what you (Unveiled Artist) are having. Your such a peace of mind is complete rely the assumption that nothing bad can happen after death, which however is just a good wish not a fact. It is a good wish just as good as "no train will come".

What do you mean?

Do you worry about it?

 

[Hawkins]

What do you mean?

Do you worry about it?

I mean you don't need to worry about it simply because you've made a huge assumption, perhaps without your own awareness. I am trying to bring it to your awareness. I have gotten myself prepared. It's already the best I can do, then why worry?

I also believe that hoping for the best but preparing for the worst is a good practice. Your advocate here seems to be the opposite.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I mean you don't need to worry about it simply because you've made a huge assumption, perhaps without your own awareness. I am trying to bring it to your awareness. I have gotten myself prepared. It's already the best I can do, then why worry?

I also believe that hoping for the best but preparing for the worst is a good practice. Your advocate here seems to be the opposite.

Not following you. Huge assumption?

You have yourself prepared for the afterlife?

If you believe in the afterlife, how would you think if there were none?

I know there is none but if you found out there is none, what reason would you prepare?