Why are the Sciences Empirical?

[Sunstone]

Recently, I heard someone allege that the sciences are empirically oriented because they are dominated by atheists who wish to deny the existence of God. Going beyond the obvious truth of that [/sarcasm], what other reasons might there be for why the sciences are empirically oriented?

 

[Willamena]

Recently, I heard someone allege that the sciences are empirically oriented because they are dominated by atheists who wish to deny the existence of God. Going beyond the obvious truth of that, what other reasons might there be for why the sciences are empirically oriented?

That's foolish.

The sciences are empirical because they were spawned by empiricists.

 

[Sunstone]

That's foolish.

The sciences are empirical because they were spawned by empiricists.

Patty, may I ask if you are offering that as a genuine reason for why the sciences are empirical, or are you just being sarcastic? Either way is ok with me. I'm just looking for clarification.

 

[Willamena]

Patty, may I ask if you are offering that as a genuine reason for why the sciences are empirical, or are you just being sarcastic? Either way is ok with me. I'm just looking for clarification.

Both.

There are no sciences without empiricsts.

 

[sun rise]

Both.

There are no sciences without empiricsts.

Or in other words, if it's not wet, it can't be water.

It would be possible to conceive of knowledge about how the world works without empiricism. It might be direct knowledge without proof but it would have to take into account that the world works in ways that baffle the senses as we have them today.

For example, we might be able to "see" quantum mechanics in operation without a lot of math and experimental observations. But that would not be science.

 

[Revoltingest]

Since information about our universe isn't provided (outside of science),
we must discover it for ourselves. Empiricism is a method, ie, observing
that universe's phenomena & properties. And it's the only method with
results which are accessible to any intelligent person. This is as opposed
to something personal, eg, intuition, faith.

 

[Cooky]

Since information about our universe isn't provided (outside of science),
we must discover it for ourselves. Empiricism is a method, ie, observing
that universe's phenomena & properties. And it's the only method which
is accessible to any intelligent person. This is as opposed to something
personal, eg, intuition, faith.

Intuition is much like imagination...

"Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand." ~ Albert Einstein

 

[Revoltingest]

Intuition is much like imagination...

"Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand." ~ Albert Einstein

Empiricism allows testing what we imagine.

 

[siti]

Empiricism allows testing what we imagine.

And imagining new ways to test it - which, if Einstein really said what the quote claims, is probably what he had in mind.

 

[Polymath257]

There is actually a fairly long history leading up to the scientific revolution and the adoption of the scientific method. And this happened before the concept of a profession of 'scientist' was invented.

One of the most important changes for the rise of science was the determination that ideas about the natural world could be subject to testing within the natural world. That is what ultimately became empiricism.

But it should be pointed out that, contrary to your friend's claim, the original exponents of empiricism were religious people thinking they were investigating God's plan for the universe by considering how His work functions.

Ultimately, empiricism showed its value because of the results of the scientific revolution and the realization that simply 'sitting and thinking' was not enough to determine truth.

The dominance of atheists (such as it is) came much later.

 

[Cooky]

And imagining new ways to test it - which, if Einstein really said what the quote claims, is probably what he had in mind.

Actually, the point is that imagination is larger than science. Because without imagination, there would be no science.

 

[Cooky]

There is actually a fairly long history leading up to the scientific revolution and the adoption of the scientific method. And this happened before the concept of a profession of 'scientist' was invented.

One of the most important changes for the rise of science was the determination that ideas about the natural world could be subject to testing within the natural world. That is what ultimately became empiricism.

But it should be pointed out that, contrary to your friend's claim, the original exponents of empiricism were religious people thinking they were investigating God's plan for the universe by considering how His work functions.

Ultimately, empiricism showed its value because of the results of the scientific revolution and the realization that simply 'sitting and thinking' was not enough to determine truth.

The dominance of atheists (such as it is) came much later.

Yes, someone had to invent science. That invention was based on imagination and not empirical evidence.

 

[Willamena]

Since information about our universe isn't provided (outside of science),
we must discover it for ourselves. Empiricism is a method, ie, observing
that universe's phenomena & properties. And it's the only method which is accessible to any intelligent person. This is as opposed to something personal, eg, intuition, faith.

I agree, except for the ampersand.

We do not directly observe ampersands.

 

[Revoltingest]

We do not directly observe ampersands.

I do.

 

[Willamena]

Without basic materialist & empiricist assumptions you cannot have science.

Much of empiricism is idealist, so not limited to materialism.

 

[Willamena]

Yes, someone had to invent science. That invention was based on imagination and not empirical evidence.

"Invention" is the wrong verb. Science describes what is observable.

 

[siti]

Actually, the point is that imagination is larger than science. Because without imagination, there would be no science.

Well the second part is basically what I said - isn't it? And the first part...is it not also true that the number of ideas is larger than the number of good ideas?

 

[Willamena]

Empiricism allows testing what we imagine.

Only to the extent that experiments fail.

 

[Revoltingest]

Only to the extent that experiments fail.

It goes further.
The more the verification, the greater the usefulness.

 

[Willamena]

It goes further.
The more the verification, the greater the usefulness.

Where does imagination end and reality assert itself?