Does having religious beliefs make a person more moral than someone who is an atheist

[PearlSeeker]

What kind of absurd contest is this? Religious people did good/bad things so did atheists. The same with internal/external morality, democracy/totalitarism, superiority complex, bias ...

I know Christianity a little closer. What's wrong with the Christian ideal of righteousness, universal love, forgiveness... if followed faithfully and sincerely? What about some specific changes in lives of converts like giving up drug addiction? I would say Christian beliefs, values and practices can aid someone's morality but only if one inwardly wants to be more moral. I don't see how atheism would help. Not believing in God(s) doesn't encourage anything.

 

[McBell]

I would say Christian beliefs, values and practices can aid someone's morality but only if one inwardly wants to be more moral.

What makes Christian beliefs "more moral"?

 

[Valjean]

What is the religion of our leaders who get us into all these needless wars?
(Hint: The're not atheists.)

Sociopathy? Narcissism? Pragmatism?

 

[PearlSeeker]

Contradiction. Good people do not do evil things.

"For figs are not gathered from thornbushes, nor are grapes picked from a bramble bush." (Luke 6:44)

 

[McBell]

What is the religion of our leaders who get us into all these needless wars?
(Hint: The're not atheists.)

Greed is a human trait.
What is the common religion of presidents, eg,
Reagan, Bush, Bush, Clinton, Obama, Trump?
(Hint: They're not atheists.)

Since no one else has the balls to answer...
Christian

 

[PearlSeeker]

What makes Christian beliefs "more moral"?

This is not what I said.

 

[Heyo]

I know Christianity a little closer. What's wrong with the Christian ideal of righteousness, universal love, forgiveness...

Nothing except that that's cherry picking. What's right with the Christian ideal of subservient, quiet women, "original sin", unquestionable dogma, hierarchy, exceptionalism, ...
There are moral things in Christianity and there are things that are at least morally questionable in a modern society. The question is, what is the net result? The data suggests that it doesn't look good for Christianity. (Though it's even worse for Islam.)

 

[McBell]

This is not what I said.

Oh?
Then who did I quote?

 

[Vinayaka]

As I see it, individual variation exceeds the generalities.
Thoughtfulness & its lack can occur in believer & non-believer.
The individual rises above the tribe.

This sums up my take. Thanks for doing my thinking (about how to write it specifically) for me.

 

[Valjean]

The fact that a great many religious adherents do reject some of the ethical imperatives of their religion tells me that a great many of them do consider their own ethical imperatives against those being presented to them by their religions. As examples: abortion, euthanasia, divorce, homosexuality, adultery, fornication (outside marriage), crime and punishment, ... the list is almost endless. For every moral/ethical imperative that a religious proposes, there are countless religious adherents that have chosen to disagree with them. Which indicates that all those adherents took the time to consider their own ethical imperatives, weigh them against those being presented to them by their religions, and chose for themselves which they would try to adhere to.

Good point, but I'd say that most of those heretics come to their decisions or actions not through critical analysis and rejection of particular doctrines, but by simply ignoring the precepts. They just don't think about theology in everyday life.

 

[Valjean]

What kind of absurd contest is this? Religious people did good/bad things so did atheists. The same with internal/external morality, democracy/totalitarism, superiority complex, bias ...

I know Christianity a little closer. What's wrong with the Christian ideal of righteousness, universal love, forgiveness... if followed faithfully and sincerely? What about some specific changes in lives of converts like giving up drug addiction? I would say Christian beliefs, values and practices can aid someone's morality but only if one inwardly wants to be more moral. I don't see how atheism would help. Not believing in God(s) doesn't encourage anything.

I'm fine with actual Christian morality, but most just pay lip-service to it, and go about their daily lives pretty much oblivious. Hippies tried living the Christian ideals, and they weren't very popular.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I heard atheists argue atheists are just as moral as theists. But I am not sure this is true in general. Many scientists work on weapons designed to destroy humanity. Scientists are mostly atheists, and many scientists are engineering weapons of mass death. Then can I conclude there something inherently missing from the way atheists believe?

And those weapons are bought by the theists in government, who are responsible for ordering all that destruction. And those same scientists are diligently looking for ways to cure the diseases that harm us, while governments like the US are working to make sure that not everybody can have access.

What do you conclude from that?

 

[PearlSeeker]

Oh?
Then who did I quote?

Sorry, maybe it's my English (it's not my language). I just meant Christianity can be helpful in Christian's strivings for a more moral life.

 

[PureX]

The religious ideologies of presidents is irrelevant to their responsibilities of office.

No it's not. They are representatives of the people they serve, not of their gods or their religious ideologies.

 

[PureX]

Usually I'm the one who has a very optimistic view of mankind but in this case I think you give too much credit to the theists. Most don't choose, at least not rationally. Just as most don't choose their religion, they get born into it.

Most theists disagree to some degree with the ethical impertives of their chosen religion. This indicates that they are considering both their own ethical imperatives and those of their religion, and are actively deciding which they will adhere to and which they won't. Also, being "born into a religion" is irrelevant, since anyone can reject that religion at any time in adulthood. Therefor, they are choosing to stay with it, or choosing not to, as many do.

 

[PureX]

As adults, the programming is already installed, and it seems to be ROM. It's hard to alter.

That's just stupid. People change their minds all the time, about all sorts of things. There is no "programming" going on that stops people from changing their minds about religion, as many do, and often.

No-one forced me to speak and think in English, nor was it a reasoned choice.

No one has stopped you from learning any other language, but you. So it was your choice not to.

People aren't born with either beliefs, religion or a moral code. There's nothing for religion to either 'align with' or diverge from; nothing is forced. It's installed effortlessly, before any firewalls or anti-malware is installed. We're cultural sponges at that point.

Humans are not computers. We can choose what and how we think. And we do so all the time.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Nothing except that that's cherry picking. What's right with the Christian ideal of subservient, quiet women, "original sin", unquestionable dogma, hierarchy, exceptionalism, ...
There are moral things in Christianity and there are things that are at least morally questionable in a modern society. The question is, what is the net result? The data suggests that it doesn't look good for Christianity. (Though it's even worse for Islam.)

I agree there are some issues in theology... Quiet woman is no ideal btw...

I meant what we know as moral teachings of Jesus. He actually set very high standards - he put importance on thoughts/intentions, inner detachment...

 

[Heyo]

I agree there are some issues in theology... Quiet woman is no ideal btw...

I meant what we know as moral teachings of Jesus. He actually set very high standards - he put importance on thoughts/intentions, inner detachment...

We agree on that one. And if all Christian just read their New Testament, they should know. Alas, that is not what happens in praxis. Or as Gandhi put it:

 

[PearlSeeker]

We agree on that one. And if all Christian just read their New Testament, they should know. Alas, that is not what happens in praxis. Or as Gandhi put it:

Like it is said in the Parable of the Sower:

"A sower went out to sow. And as he sowed, some seed fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured it. Other seed fell on rocky ground, where it did not have much soil, and immediately it sprang up, since it had no depth of soil. And when the sun rose, it was scorched, and since it had no root, it withered away. Other seed fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked it, and it yielded no grain. And other seeds fell into good soil and produced grain, growing up and increasing and yielding thirtyfold and sixtyfold and a hundredfold."

 

[Revoltingest]

Sociopathy? Narcissism? Pragmatism?

Still not religions, since even we vaunted atheists have some with such traits.