Global Warming?

[rrobs]

Which is why the bible is irrelevant to the 21st century.

How do you feel about Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, Hinduism, etc? Do you consider them all equally irrelevant?

 

[ChristineM]

I'm not sure how any of those verses contradict free will.

It is true that God will ultimately get what He wants, but He works with people to get it. It is like herding a million cats through the desert, but He can do it. That's why it took God 6,000 years to A) write the directions for how to redeem mankind from sin and death (the OT), and B) to convince some man to follow the directions. If it were 100% up to God to redeem us, you have to wonder why he waited that long. Why didn't He just come down right after Adam blew it and fix things?

Could it be that, since He gave dominion to man but man screwed it up, and so it had to be a man to fix it all up? I know it's not church doctrine, but it is in the scriptures.

In general, Paul said that everyone turned against him even before he died. When did the church get it back? They haven't! They unwittingly value Plato and Greek philosophy more than the scriptures. Study the people that defined the orthodox doctrine in all the early church councils. Virtually all of them were convinced that Greek philosophy and the scriptures could be reconciled. That's where they came up with the idea of life after death for example. We don't really die, we just, "cross over the bar." Well, if that's true there is hardly any need for a redeemer. It's just a simple matter of being a good person and we'll got to heaven immediately after death. Apparently, all the talk of resurrection of the dead at the end is nothing but a bunch of hooey. They'll be nobody to resurrect. We'll all already be in our appointed place. A perfect coup on the devil's part. If we don't need Jesus, then we don't need him.

The scriptures say God works through us.

Phil 2:13,

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.
​

We can allow Him to do that, or not. He wants us to do it, but ultimately it's our free will choice.

They show that the abrahamic god claims omniscience

As for free will, Revelation 14:7, Isaiah 43:13, Romans 8:7, Exodus 20:23, Exodus 34:14,Jeremiah 25:6, Deuteronomy 5:7 and so many more godly bars to free will i am astounded that you claim otherwise

 

[rrobs]

Sure. People. Not 7 billion of them. Maybe a few million or less by the time all is said and done? In other words, not enough to support our current population needs. After all, a generous estimate of the world population around 1000 BCE, was around 115 million. So, if you want to read that verse literally, read it with that population in mind, in that context of history, not with the 7,000,000,000 people of today.


Genesis is not a predictor of weather patterns. We need to rely on science for that.

But as far as right now, this is not part of a cycle. This is unprecedented historically, except during major changes of earth's climate, resulting in mass extinctions, which are already full underway. Mass extinctions don't occur because of normal weather cycles.


The thing about global warming, is not that your local weather will show steady increases in heat. It does not work like that. What you will see is a massive disruption in normal weather patterns, which are already fully underway. You may see an ice sheet, instead of boiling water.


Correct about science? Why would it be? It's not written about that. It shouldn't be read like the local weather report.


A lot of things would be nicer if we weren't doing what we are doing. Time to act upon that, rather than dream about it. It was brought about by people, and people can do things to help stop it, or at least reduce the damage we've already done. But we might be past the point of return now at this point, thanks in no small part to those who deny its reality.


It's more hopeful to believe it will all just fix itself, but the science is not wrong. It's very clear this is really happening. It's time to quit our denial and wake up to what we've done, and why.


But that does not mean it reverses direction and says, "Oops, we were wrong about global warming. It's not happening at all!" That of course, will never happen, because they aren't wrong about that. They may not understand everything about it, as it is enormously complex, and with time and more data we can understand better. But that does not mean that this isn't actually happening. It most certainly is.


People are always reading it differently, however. How you are reading it, is not how anyone back when it was written would have read it. That reading of Genesis, cannot overrule the data from scientific research. On a scale weighing the two together, a reading of Genesis is like a single dried pea on one scale, with the entire mountain range of the Himalayas on the other. Science wins, when it comes to doing science.


Every time someone reads Genesis, it's subjected to change. People change the meaning of what they read from it constantly. Science on the other hand, is not as susceptible to personal opinions this way. So it has more value when looking for actual, predicable models.


Having faith as an anchor in life is perfectly fine. But that faith cannot deny science. Otherwise that's not faith. It's fear.

Would you say that science if 100% right about the future, that there is no possibility whatsoever that they are wrong? That in itself is not good science. It is in fact terrible science. I thought science was always open to new data. We don't know what the data will be 500 years from now. To say we do is another example of bad science.

It is funny that Christians are accused of denying science. I think a case can easily be made for the opposite. It seems many treat science as infallible, that if science says it, it is true and will always be true. Do you know how much science in the past has been dis-proven and a new theory developped? More of it than not. By it's very nature, science is fluid. Those who are convinced otherwise may be in for a surprise as time marches on. Maybe no, maybe yes. It's the maybe part that leaves different possibilities.

The scriptures are not at all like that. If they say it, it is true and it will stay true. That is why I know GW will not be the catastrophe we are led to believe. Does it not strike you as odd that there is very little we hear about that gives us comfort, that most scientific revelations spell doom and gloom? A fearful population is easy to control. I don't know for certain that is the end game, but it sure seems that way. Anyway, armed with the scriptures one need have no fear. Why do you think most totalitarian regimes get rid of Christians? It's because they have independent thoughts.

 

[Mitty]

How do you feel about Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, Hinduism, etc? Do you consider them all equally irrelevant?

They're also irrelevant to me. But what relevance is the bible and it's fantasy stories to the 21st century?

 

[rrobs]

They show that the abrahamic god claims omniscience

As for free will, Revelation 14:7, Isaiah 43:13, Romans 8:7, Exodus 20:23, Exodus 34:14,Jeremiah 25:6, Deuteronomy 5:7 and so many more godly bars to free will i am astounded that you claim otherwise

So God telling us what to do automatically rules out free will? God says to have no other gods. Does He force us to have no other gods?

So I guess Hitler had no choice in what he did to the Jews. Why blame him if he had no choice? And what about poor old Idi Amin? He had no choice but to slaughter thousands of innocent people. He did what he was apparently hard wired to do. We should laud both Hitler and Amin for carrying out their appointed tasks.

What do you think the devil's role is in all of this? Maybe you don't believe he actually exists, but he does have a major role in the scriptures. Even if they are a fairy tale, they still tell a definite story just like all fairy tales. So what about the devil?

Deut 30:19,

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:​

 

[rrobs]

They're also irrelevant to me. But what relevance is the bible and it's fantasy stories to the 21st century?

If you don't understand, you don't understand. Your mind is quite made up.

I've spent many years on your side of the fence, but I hopped the fence and found the other side to be much greener. Before I did, I thought it would be the last thing I'd ever do. Is that how you feel?

 

[ChristineM]

So God telling us what to do automatically rules out free will? God says to have no other gods. Does He force us to have no other gods?

So I guess Hitler had no choice in what he did to the Jews. Why blame him if he had no choice? And what about poor old Idi Amin? He had no choice but to slaughter thousands of innocent people. He did what he was apparently hard wired to do. We should laud both Hitler and Amin for carrying out their appointed tasks.

What do you think the devil's role is in all of this? Maybe you don't believe he actually exists, but he does have a major role in the scriptures. Even if they are a fairy tale, they still tell a definite story just like all fairy tales. So what about the devil?

Deut 30:19,

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:​

God insisting what you do and killing those who don't do his command does kind of rule out free will don't you think

And dont get silly with the strawman unless of course you are bestowing godhood on Hitler?

Devil. Good guy,only killed 10 people compared to the 2000000+ attributed to god. So who is the worse murderer?

 

[ChristineM]

If you don't understand, you don't understand. Your mind is quite made up.

I've spent many years on your side of the fence, but I hopped the fence and found the other side to be much greener. Before I did, I thought it would be the last thing I'd ever do. Is that how you feel?

Sorry to butt into this one, but i have always found it fascinating and unlikely that one can go from atheist to god believer. It seems to me to be an insult to ones one mindset, a weakness of will. I really cannot imagine how it can happen and so i question those who claim to have made such an improbable jump. It turns out they were not atheist but rather angry with their god belief, angry at their god. How about you?

 

[QuestioningMind]

Well, I think many have the silly idea that global warming will be the end of humans, hence no more seeding and harvesting. If you are not among that group, good for you. At least you don't live in fear. A good thing.

Life as we currently enjoy it will most definitely change, but I don't think anyone is claiming that climate change is going to be the end of all humans on Earth. But is IS going to cause billions of deaths due to flooding, droughts, and massive food shortages due to the fact that our actions are causing the climate to become less and less hospitable for human life.

What's truly silly, foolish, and frightening is that there are people who think that it's impossible for humans to spoil the planet for human habitations because some supposed 'god being' won't let it happen. It's called sticking your head in the sand, ignoring your responsibilities, and pretending as if the mountains of evidence that indicate that global temperatures are rising and that human beings are the cause doesn't actually exist.

 

[McBell]

 

[Mitty]

If you don't understand, you don't understand. Your mind is quite made up.

I've spent many years on your side of the fence, but I hopped the fence and found the other side to be much greener. Before I did, I thought it would be the last thing I'd ever do. Is that how you feel?

That's your choice, but I stopped believing in Santa and fantasies over 65 years ago.

 

[rrobs]

God insisting what you do and killing those who don't do his command does kind of rule out free will don't you think

And dont get silly with the strawman unless of course you are bestowing godhood on Hitler?

Devil. Good guy,only killed 10 people compared to the 2000000+ attributed to god. So who is the worse murderer?

Are you aware the the devil, and who did what in this world, was not fully revealed until Jesus rose from the dead? Also you may want to look up the Hebrew idiom of permission. We must understand things from their perspective, not ours. The Bible wasn't written last year in New York or Los Angeles. I trust you can imagine their mode of thinking was much different than our own. Different culture entirely, different figures of speech, idioms, world view, and much more. All that can be learned, and it is in fact critical to arrive at a true understanding of the scriptures. Any ancient Eastern book is the same way. Shouldn't be that hard to see.

Would you say most of your understanding of the scriptures comes from what others (priest, pastor) told you, or from your own independent study, like the Bereans in Acts 17?

 

[Bear Wild]

God made a promise to Noah right after the flood abated.

Gen 8:22,

While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
​

I don't see climate change there. No need to fear, God is here!

Actually what we need to fear is this attitude that believes in mythological quotes over reality. You do not see climate change because you do not want to see climate change. Take your head out of the book see what is actually happening and not in your mind and you will see climate change. The reason we are destroying the world we live in is in part due to absolutism interpretation of that book you love to quote. Ignorance of what is happening is allowing the eventual extinction of most life on earth including human extinction. The sad thing about it is I have even heard from Christians, that cannot see beyond the scriptures they read, that they are welcoming the end of the world. Ignorance is just plain dangerous.

 

[Bear Wild]

I hear people all the time say that the earth will outlive humans.

No the earth will out exist humans with some other form of life dominating because we cannot see simple concepts as climate change.

 

[Bear Wild]

Are they really?

Polar Bear Population



In other words, scientists who cling to a climate change narrative will ALWAYS call them threatened even if the facts don't match. Polar bear now populated in the billions and much of US from Maryland upward now frozen in tundras? Polar bears moving southward due to overcrowding? Polar bears must be fleeing the melting icecaps! We need to avoid harming the poor poor polar bears!

Global polar bear population larger than previous thought – almost 30,000
Latest global polar bear abundance ‘best guess’ estimate is 39,000 (26,000-58,000)

The Inconvenient Truth About Polar Bears

Yeah. It's like that. The numbers aren't in the billions, and thankfully Maryland isn't this cold. But if it were, this story would not change one iota.

"poor poor polar bears" What a lack of respect towards other life. The population grows after ban on hunting which does not negate the effect of climate change. It is forcing the bears the bears to come more and more into conflict with humans which will ultimately cause the death of the bears. Climate change is real as well as human over-population.

 

[Heyo]

Sorry to butt into this one, but i have always found it fascinating and unlikely that one can go from atheist to god believer. It seems to me to be an insult to ones one mindset, a weakness of will. I really cannot imagine how it can happen and so i question those who claim to have made such an improbable jump. It turns out they were not atheist but rather angry with their god belief, angry at their god. How about you?

I asked that question in Were You an Atheist™ before You became a Theist?.
So it is possible to go from atheist to believer - but not through reason. Note that none of the former atheists could name their rational reasons to be an atheist and then refute it. They just stopped to be rational.

 

[Mitty]

Are you aware the the devil, and who did what in this world, was not fully revealed until Jesus rose from the dead?

What did the devil do in this world which wasn't fully revealed?

And why wasn't it revealed what the devil did in this world, and is that why Moses & Noah & Abraham & David etc never went to heaven (John 3:13) even though David was his god's begotten son (Psalm 2:7)?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

God made a promise to Noah right after the flood abated.

Gen 8:22,

While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
​

I don't see climate change there. No need to fear, God is here!

It is this kind of religious fanaticism which leads to irresponsible behaviour which is greatly damaging for both our generations as future ones.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

There are cycles, and we are in a "hot" cycle right now, but it will start to cool down sooner or later. Hopefully it will be in time to save the polar bears. It is a fact that 99% of species that lived are now extinct, so maybe the time is up for polar bears.

This has nothing to do with natural cycles and everything with humans poluting the atmosphere with greenhouse gasses..

I know there are places in the world where the harvest is not very good, but it's been that way from the very start. Spotty harvests are addressed in Genesis 3:17-19, but that in no way negates Genesis 8:22.

The bible is irrelevant to the actual data.

Take care and stay cool.

Take care and get educated.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

What I know is that many people are afraid of climate change. I also know it is not necessary to be afraid. That's all I'm saying.

You don't "know". You believe. And you believe a priori. Religiously. On faith. While completely ignoring all the evidence that flies right in the face of your beliefs.

I think it amazing that, from a simple short 3 paragraph post, you know what I know and what I don't know.

It's not hard to spot ignorance about a subject when one actually understands said object.

I don't even need 3 paragraphs. The fact that you think you can deny climate change by pointing at a bible verse, is all I need to know to understand the level of your ignorance and head-in-sand style of "arguing".