Global Warming?

[rrobs]

Yes, there are also people who believe the earth is flat, because God told them so. Should I connect the scientists to them, too?

Ciao

- viole

There are people who don't believe in God that think the earth is flat. Does that make all unbelievers ignorant?

Besides, where do the scriptures say the earth is flat? I'm not saying they don't, just that I haven't seen it.

 

[rrobs]

No, it doesn't. The bold text says the opposite.

The verse I quoted does address global warming by saying it won't destroy man as long as this earth is here. How does that not address the issue?

And we also agree on that. No human extinction but a really bad time and no need to fear but a need to act. Can we agree on that also?

Yes. We should pray and preach the gospel. I doubt you'll like that answer, but it's my answer, and in the interest of inclusiveness, you should respect my view even if it's not yours.

 

[rrobs]

Well, humans have only existed for a tiny fraction of the history of life on earth. So how can you blame humans for the extinctions that took place long before human existence?

I guess you can't blame humans. Good point.

It would appear that extinction is just a normal part of this existence, at least after Adam screwed things up. It wasn't God's cup of tea. He made the earth and declared everything "good" which is the Hebrew word "tov" and it really means "functional." "Evil," Hebrew "ra" means dysfunction and didn't enter the picture until Adam, by free will, disobeyed God's one little commandment.

 

[Heyo]

Yes. We should pray and preach the gospel. I doubt you'll like that answer, but it's my answer, and in the interest of inclusiveness, you should respect my view even if it's not yours.

As long as you don't stand in the way of those who are doing something, I'm OK with you praying. And when you preach, just don't lie about science.

 

[QuestioningMind]

God made a promise to Noah right after the flood abated.

Gen 8:22,

While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
​

I don't see climate change there. No need to fear, God is here!

Where did you get the silly notion that climate change means there will no longer be seed time and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter or day and night?

 

[viole]

There are people who don't believe in God that think the earth is flat. Does that make all unbelievers ignorant?

Besides, where do the scriptures say the earth is flat? I'm not saying they don't, just that I haven't seen it.

some of you guys believe the Universe is a few thousands years old, and that is intellectually equivalent to believe that the earth is flat. So, easy to confuse.

Anyway, you said that we should not worry about global warming because God said that to Noah, or whomever, allegedly.

do you think we should take the Bible as reference for future climate policy? Let’s go to the UN and prove to those guys that they are losing their time with the environment. God said that to Noah and that should be sufficient.

If yes, then it should be clear to everyone why some atheists are so active against religious belief. Because it is not harmless. It puts the welfare of our kids at danger, among other things, because of the baseless assumptions taken by some ancient middle eastern goat herders without a clue, and the people today who takes them too seriously.

true. There are positive religious beliefs that are not so naive, and are harmless. But, as in the case of a tumor, which is usually benign, better be safe than sorry.

ciao

- viole

 

[Kenny]

That's not adaptation, that's interbreeding. As each bear is adapted to quite different niches, I'd expect them to be poorly adapted to either species' customary lifestyle.

Inter-breading that will produce adaptation. They are adapting to the fact that can't do it the way they use to. Don't you believe in evolution?

 

[Mitty]

There are people who don't believe in God that think the earth is flat. Does that make all unbelievers ignorant?

Besides, where do the scriptures say the earth is flat? I'm not saying they don't, just that I haven't seen it.

The bible describes Earth as a flat immovable disc with ends and corners, and describes the universe as a geocentric domed tent attached to the circle of the horizon (Isaiah 40:22). Which is why Matt 4:8 says that Jesus could see China and India and Rome and America from an extremely high mountain.

The bible, however, does not describe Earth as a rotating globe orbiting the sun, nor does it describe the universe and Earth as being billions of years old.

 

[ChristineM]

Having been a Christian, you may be aware that Genesis 1:26 & 28 says that God gave man dominion over the earth. You can see the same thing in Psalm 8:4. Does that square with the idea of omniscience?

I understand the orthodox church says God is omniscient, that it is most people's idea that He is omniscient, but it seems that Genesis says otherwise. Do we believe church doctrine or the scriptures? That is each person's own decision to make.

In general God can not do whatever He wants. He must do what He says He will do in the scriptures. He can not do what He says He will not do.

Since the word "omniscient" is not in the scriptures, I'm not sure exactly what it even means, but it can't mean God is totally in charge and can do whatever strikes His fancy. It's a man made concept and not deserving of much consideration as far as I'm concerned.

Take care

The word is well defined and that definition is claimed or implied in several verses

Isaiah 46:9-10, Isaiah 40:13-14, Psalm 139:4, Psalm 139:1-3, Psalm 139:15-16, Job 21:22... And more and more and more

 

[Mitty]

Free will is not a design fault. It is love. Think about letting the bird in the cage go free. God must work with people to accomplish His goals. Surely you remember that Jesus couldn't do much in his home town because they didn't believe.

So why didn't Jesus' family (including his mother and her husband) believe that he was a prophet as he claimed (Matt 13:55-58 John 7:5), and why he rejected and ignored them (Matt 12:46-50)?

 

[ChristineM]

Total misrepresentation.

Are you against free will? Would you rather God put us in the cage and never let us out?

Do you see Satan as having any role in this world, or do you just think he lounges around with a big grin on his face and watches God hurt people?

I have read several bibles, several times and there is no misrepresentation there, you want verses where god kills or causes to kill those who don't worship him

As for satan, biblical murder count 10, god biblical murder count 2 million +

I dont see any god or any satan having a tole in this world in the same way i dont don Harry Potter and Voldemort having a role in this world, they are all fiction

 

[ChristineM]

Well, I myself was driven from the church, but I recognized that the church and the scriptures were often diametrically opposed to each other. I just didn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

In my case i was driven out, and tried to find out why by reading the bible properly, not selectively, not cherry picking the bits the vicar liked, but the whole book. A real eye opener that showed me precisely where they got their christianity

 

[Windwalker]

Good point. It sounds good except for the seeding and harvesting times, which means people will be around to plant and harvest.

Sure. People. Not 7 billion of them. Maybe a few million or less by the time all is said and done? In other words, not enough to support our current population needs. After all, a generous estimate of the world population around 1000 BCE, was around 115 million. So, if you want to read that verse literally, read it with that population in mind, in that context of history, not with the 7,000,000,000 people of today.

We are in a hot cycle now, but if Genesis is true, it will cool down sooner of later.

Genesis is not a predictor of weather patterns. We need to rely on science for that.

But as far as right now, this is not part of a cycle. This is unprecedented historically, except during major changes of earth's climate, resulting in mass extinctions, which are already full underway. Mass extinctions don't occur because of normal weather cycles.

I think it will. I live in an area where for a while the average highs were going up by 2 or 3 degrees for several years. Everybody was wigging out. That was a while ago. If it had kept going up at that rate, I probably wouldn't be here writing this. As it is, the last 3 years it has begun a definite cooling trend. Last night, August 9 in SoCal, I slept with 2 blankets. Very unusual. Usually it's 0 blankets this time of the year, maybe a sheet by the time morning arrived, but definitely no blankets.

The thing about global warming, is not that your local weather will show steady increases in heat. It does not work like that. What you will see is a massive disruption in normal weather patterns, which are already fully underway. You may see an ice sheet, instead of boiling water.

I really think Genesis is correct.

Correct about science? Why would it be? It's not written about that. It shouldn't be read like the local weather report.

You have to admit, it would be nice if it is.

A lot of things would be nicer if we weren't doing what we are doing. Time to act upon that, rather than dream about it. It was brought about by people, and people can do things to help stop it, or at least reduce the damage we've already done. But we might be past the point of return now at this point, thanks in no small part to those who deny its reality.

It's a better alternative to most of the science on the subject.

It's more hopeful to believe it will all just fix itself, but the science is not wrong. It's very clear this is really happening. It's time to quit our denial and wake up to what we've done, and why.

Speaking of science; it is well understood that it is constantly refining its findings in most physical areas of study. That is in fact a hallmark of good science. That means it is understood that what we know now may not be the whole story.

But that does not mean it reverses direction and says, "Oops, we were wrong about global warming. It's not happening at all!" That of course, will never happen, because they aren't wrong about that. They may not understand everything about it, as it is enormously complex, and with time and more data we can understand better. But that does not mean that this isn't actually happening. It most certainly is.

I think the whole story is in Genesis and it does not refine itself.

People are always reading it differently, however. How you are reading it, is not how anyone back when it was written would have read it. That reading of Genesis, cannot overrule the data from scientific research. On a scale weighing the two together, a reading of Genesis is like a single dried pea on one scale, with the entire mountain range of the Himalayas on the other. Science wins, when it comes to doing science.

It's already perfect and not subject to change.

Every time someone reads Genesis, it's subjected to change. People change the meaning of what they read from it constantly. Science on the other hand, is not as susceptible to personal opinions this way. So it has more value when looking for actual, predicable models.

All in all, it seems to be a better anchor of life than science. Nothing wrong with science, it just does not have the final say on life. Have to keep those limits in mind.

Take care.

Having faith as an anchor in life is perfectly fine. But that faith cannot deny science. Otherwise that's not faith. It's fear.

 

[Mitty]

Having been a Christian, you may be aware that Genesis 1:26 & 28 says that God gave man dominion over the earth. You can see the same thing in Psalm 8:4. Does that square with the idea of omniscience?

I understand the orthodox church says God is omniscient, that it is most people's idea that He is omniscient, but it seems that Genesis says otherwise. Do we believe church doctrine or the scriptures? That is each person's own decision to make.

In general God can not do whatever He wants. He must do what He says He will do in the scriptures. He can not do what He says He will not do.

Since the word "omniscient" is not in the scriptures, I'm not sure exactly what it even means, but it can't mean God is totally in charge and can do whatever strikes His fancy. It's a man made concept and not deserving of much consideration as far as I'm concerned.

Take care

Obviously Abraham's particular god was neither an omniscient or omnipresent type of god, since it needed to have a face to face discussion with Abraham about the number of righteous children in Sodom when they shared a meal together, before the god walked down to Sodom to count them for itself (Gen 18). Perhaps some of the other gods and goddesses described in Gen 1:25-26 and Deut 10:17 were omniscient.

 

[rrobs]

As long as you don't stand in the way of those who are doing something, I'm OK with you praying. And when you preach, just don't lie about science.

Will do. My attitude about science is that it has brought us many good things, but not all good things come from science. It has yet to solve the problem of death for example. Jesus, on the other hand, did rise from the dead and he promised we will all get up at some point so it solves that problem.

 

[rrobs]

Where did you get the silly notion that climate change means there will no longer be seed time and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter or day and night?

Well, I think many have the silly idea that global warming will be the end of humans, hence no more seeding and harvesting. If you are not among that group, good for you. At least you don't live in fear. A good thing.

 

[rrobs]

some of you guys believe the Universe is a few thousands years old, and that is intellectually equivalent to believe that the earth is flat. So, easy to confuse.

It doesn't matter what some of us guys believe. The scriptures leave plenty of room for billions of years. There is ample scriptural evidence that Genesis 1:2 says, "the earth became without form and void," instead of, "the earth was without form and void." The former, being true, leaves as many years as you want between the initial creation and the beginning of the Bible story.

Anyway, you said that we should not worry about global warming because God said that to Noah, or whomever, allegedly.
Yes, and that's my final answer

do you think we should take the Bible as reference for future climate policy? Let’s go to the UN and prove to those guys that they are losing their time with the environment. God said that to Noah and that should be sufficient.

If yes, then it should be clear to everyone why some atheists are so active against religious belief. Because it is not harmless. It puts the welfare of our kids at danger, among other things, because of the baseless assumptions taken by some ancient middle eastern goat herders without a clue, and the people today who takes them too seriously.

Since when have the authorities taken any advice from the scriptures, thus ruining the chances of a decent life for the children? That is not likely to happen any time soon.

The real funny part of the whole thing, is that few people actually do what they think may avoid GW. I wonder how many have stopped driving cars for example. I suspect most people who talk about GW have done nothing whatsoever. Bravo to those who do. Personally, I don't think it matters, but at least they put their money where their mouth is.

 

[rrobs]

The bible describes Earth as a flat immovable disc with ends and corners, and describes the universe as a geocentric domed tent attached to the circle of the horizon (Isaiah 40:22).

Have you investigated what an ancient Hebrew might have thought about Isaiah?

Which is why Matt 4:8 says that Jesus could see China and India and Rome and America from an extremely high mountain.

Yes, in a vision. He was probably somewhat punchy after no food for 40 days.

It's funny how people take things in the scriptures that are quite literal and make them an allegory or something, and then things that are figurative they take as real. Somehow we all manage to keep the two straight in profane literature, but then throw all logic out the window when it comes to the scriptures. Just a personal observation.

The bible, however, does not describe Earth as a rotating globe orbiting the sun, nor does it describe the universe and Earth as being billions of years old.

Why are you surprised that a 6,000 year old culture doesn't describe things in terms of modern science? There is more true science in the little finger of the Bible, than most people have in their entire mind. It's just not described in terms of atoms, molecules, angular momentum, speed of light, etc.

The scriptures leave plenty of room for billions of years. There is ample scriptural evidence that Genesis 1:2 says, "the earth became without form and void," instead of, "the earth was without form and void." The former, being true, leaves as many years as you want between the initial creation and the beginning of the Bible story.

 

[Mitty]

Have you investigated what an ancient Hebrew might have thought about Isaiah?


Yes, in a vision. He was probably somewhat punchy after no food for 40 days.

It's funny how people take things in the scriptures that are quite literal and make them an allegory or something, and then things that are figurative they take as real. Somehow we all manage to keep the two straight in profane literature, but then throw all logic out the window when it comes to the scriptures. Just a personal observation.


Why are you surprised that a 6,000 year old culture doesn't describe things in terms of modern science? There is more true science in the little finger of the Bible, than most people have in their entire mind. It's just not described in terms of atoms, molecules, angular momentum, speed of light, etc.

The scriptures leave plenty of room for billions of years. There is ample scriptural evidence that Genesis 1:2 says, "the earth became without form and void," instead of, "the earth was without form and void." The former, being true, leaves as many years as you want between the initial creation and the beginning of the Bible story.

Which is why the bible is irrelevant to the 21st century.

 

[rrobs]

The word is well defined and that definition is claimed or implied in several verses

Isaiah 46:9-10, Isaiah 40:13-14, Psalm 139:4, Psalm 139:1-3, Psalm 139:15-16, Job 21:22... And more and more and more

I'm not sure how any of those verses contradict free will.

It is true that God will ultimately get what He wants, but He works with people to get it. It is like herding a million cats through the desert, but He can do it. That's why it took God 6,000 years to A) write the directions for how to redeem mankind from sin and death (the OT), and B) to convince some man to follow the directions. If it were 100% up to God to redeem us, you have to wonder why he waited that long. Why didn't He just come down right after Adam blew it and fix things?

Could it be that, since He gave dominion to man but man screwed it up, and so it had to be a man to fix it all up? I know it's not church doctrine, but it is in the scriptures.

In general, Paul said that everyone turned against him even before he died. When did the church get it back? They haven't! They unwittingly value Plato and Greek philosophy more than the scriptures. Study the people that defined the orthodox doctrine in all the early church councils. Virtually all of them were convinced that Greek philosophy and the scriptures could be reconciled. That's where they came up with the idea of life after death for example. We don't really die, we just, "cross over the bar." Well, if that's true there is hardly any need for a redeemer. It's just a simple matter of being a good person and we'll got to heaven immediately after death. Apparently, all the talk of resurrection of the dead at the end is nothing but a bunch of hooey. They'll be nobody to resurrect. We'll all already be in our appointed place. A perfect coup on the devil's part. If we don't need Jesus, then we don't need him.

The scriptures say God works through us.

Phil 2:13,

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.
​

We can allow Him to do that, or not. He wants us to do it, but ultimately it's our free will choice.