Gravity and the Expanding Universe

[rrobs]

"The Big Bang theory is a cosmological model of the observable universe from the earliest known periods through its subsequent large-scale evolution. The model describes how the universe expanded from an initial state of extremely high density and high temperature, and offers a comprehensive explanation for a broad range of observed phenomena, including the abundance of light elements, the cosmic microwave background (CMB) radiation, and large-scale structure." Big Bang - Wikipedia

The forces of gravity and expansion must be in incredibly precise proportions. If gravity was too much greater than expansion, the universe would collapse back onto itself. If the force of expansion was too much greater than gravity, the universe would fly apart.

The precision of the balance between the forces is 10 to the 60 power. That's a chance of 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. To put it another way, it would be like aiming at and hitting a 1 inch target located at the opposite end of the universe!

I just read something about the gullibility of Christians for having faith in intelligent design. Of course it would have been written by someone who apparently has no problem in believing in such mind boggling and overwhelming odds in the "chance" appearance of our universe. It would also be by "chance" that an explosion would end up with sentient beings that could even ponder said explosion.

So who is taking what by blind faith?

 

[Eyes to See]

People who don't believe in God per se still believe in "God." They just change his title to "Chance." Their Chance is the magical miracle that makes everything happen. All by Blind Chance! It's a way to accept God without calling him by his real title.

 

[Left Coast]

"The Big Bang theory is a cosmological model of the observable universe from the earliest known periods through its subsequent large-scale evolution. The model describes how the universe expanded from an initial state of extremely high density and high temperature, and offers a comprehensive explanation for a broad range of observed phenomena, including the abundance of light elements, the cosmic microwave background (CMB) radiation, and large-scale structure." Big Bang - Wikipedia

The forces of gravity and expansion must be in incredibly precise proportions. If gravity was too much greater than expansion, the universe would collapse back onto itself. If the force of expansion was too much greater than gravity, the universe would fly apart.

The precision of the balance between the forces is 10 to the 60 power. That's a chance of 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. To put it another way, it would be like aiming at and hitting a 1 inch target located at the opposite end of the universe!

I just read something about the gullibility of Christians for having faith in intelligent design. Of course it would have been written by someone who apparently has no problem in believing in such mind boggling and overwhelming odds in the "chance" appearance of our universe. It would also be by "chance" that an explosion would end up with sentient beings that could even ponder said explosion.

So who is taking what by blind faith?

The Big Bang not happening by chance doesn't mean God did it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

"The Big Bang theory is a cosmological model of the observable universe from the earliest known periods through its subsequent large-scale evolution. The model describes how the universe expanded from an initial state of extremely high density and high temperature, and offers a comprehensive explanation for a broad range of observed phenomena, including the abundance of light elements, the cosmic microwave background (CMB) radiation, and large-scale structure." Big Bang - Wikipedia

The forces of gravity and expansion must be in incredibly precise proportions. If gravity was too much greater than expansion, the universe would collapse back onto itself. If the force of expansion was too much greater than gravity, the universe would fly apart.

The precision of the balance between the forces is 10 to the 60 power. That's a chance of 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. To put it another way, it would be like aiming at and hitting a 1 inch target located at the opposite end of the universe!

I just read something about the gullibility of Christians for having faith in intelligent design. Of course it would have been written by someone who apparently has no problem in believing in such mind boggling and overwhelming odds in the "chance" appearance of our universe. It would also be by "chance" that an explosion would end up with sentient beings that could even ponder said explosion.

So who is taking what by blind faith?

You have the blind faith. What makes you think that supports a god?

 

[ChristineM]

"The Big Bang theory is a cosmological model of the observable universe from the earliest known periods through its subsequent large-scale evolution. The model describes how the universe expanded from an initial state of extremely high density and high temperature, and offers a comprehensive explanation for a broad range of observed phenomena, including the abundance of light elements, the cosmic microwave background (CMB) radiation, and large-scale structure." Big Bang - Wikipedia

The forces of gravity and expansion must be in incredibly precise proportions. If gravity was too much greater than expansion, the universe would collapse back onto itself. If the force of expansion was too much greater than gravity, the universe would fly apart.

The precision of the balance between the forces is 10 to the 60 power. That's a chance of 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. To put it another way, it would be like aiming at and hitting a 1 inch target located at the opposite end of the universe!

I just read something about the gullibility of Christians for having faith in intelligent design. Of course it would have been written by someone who apparently has no problem in believing in such mind boggling and overwhelming odds in the "chance" appearance of our universe. It would also be by "chance" that an explosion would end up with sentient beings that could even ponder said explosion.

So who is taking what by blind faith?

do you have a reference for the 10^60 claim. It seems to me it is ignoring original conditions, quantum interactions and (assumed) dark energy.

And the fact that, yes the universe is flying apart at terrific speeds anywy

 

[Subduction Zone]

In physics certain relationships can have amazing numbers that go with them. We may not know why those values exist, but that has never been evidence for a god. For example Kepler showed that the area swept out by a planet in its orbit was equal for equal times, even though the planet moved at different velocities in its orbit. Was that evidence for God? No, it was merely a relationship that wasn't understood yet. Along came Newton with his law of universal gravitation and his calculus and the answer became obvious.

We don't know therefore God is a God of the Gaps argument.

 

[Audie]

People who don't believe in God per se still believe in "God." They just change his title to "Chance." Their Chance is the magical miracle that makes everything happen. All by Blind Chance! It's a way to accept God without calling him by his real title.

That is garbage

 

[Brickjectivity]

The forces of gravity and expansion must be in incredibly precise proportions.

Observations confirm that space is expanding, not in a balance.

I just read something about the gullibility of Christians for having faith in intelligent design.

I wouldn't call it gullibility but idolatry. They want God to be provable. I'd associate this with having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof, but a lot of Christians are willing to put away such childish things. A lot of Christians are wiling to believe in God for good and decent reasons, the kind that the NT authors themselves seem to have who believe without trying to prove God's existence. The creation of spiritual life and the world in Christ Jesus is their interest, and repentance is more valuable to them than threats or coaxing based on ruthless arguments about beginnings and physics.

People who don't believe in God per se still believe in "God." They just change his title to "Chance." Their Chance is the magical miracle that makes everything happen. All by Blind Chance! It's a way to accept God without calling him by his real title.

That is slander, and its also insupportable.

 

[ChristineM]

People who don't believe in God per se still believe in "God." They just change his title to "Chance." Their Chance is the magical miracle that makes everything happen. All by Blind Chance! It's a way to accept God without calling him by his real title.

I consider it the other way round, those that don't understand that chance has a reason even if thats reason is not currently understood say "i don't know so my god must have done it"

 

[Audie]

Observations confirm that space is expanding, not in a balance.

I wouldn't call it gullibility but idolatry. They want God to be provable. I'd associate this with having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof, but a lot of Christians are willing to put away such childish things. A lot of Christians are wiling to believe in God for good and decent reasons, the kind that the NT authors themselves seem to have who believe without trying to prove God's existence. The creation of spiritual life and the world in Christ Jesus is their interest, and repentance is more valuable to them than threats or coaxing based on ruthless arguments about beginnings and physics.

That is slander, and its also insupportable.

Re the slander, on his behalf i would offer that
this notion is repeated so often by usual suspects that there is little chance it is other than just( thoughtlessly) repeating what others said.

 

[ChristineM]

Just read an interesting article, it seems @Quintessence may be responsible for powering the expansion of the universe

“Powering the Universe?” --Relic Light of the Big Bang Reveals an Exotic Unknown Force | The Daily Galaxy

 

[Heyo]

Re the slander, on his behalf i would offer that
this notion is repeated so often by usual suspects that there is little chance it is other than just( thoughtlessly) repeating what others said.

Even if it is just a citation, he chose to cite it and is therefore responsible.

 

[Audie]

Even if it is just a citation, he chose to cite it and is therefore responsible.

Of course. And maybe some ways worse for being second hand and the product of zero thought.

 

[Polymath257]

"The Big Bang theory is a cosmological model of the observable universe from the earliest known periods through its subsequent large-scale evolution. The model describes how the universe expanded from an initial state of extremely high density and high temperature, and offers a comprehensive explanation for a broad range of observed phenomena, including the abundance of light elements, the cosmic microwave background (CMB) radiation, and large-scale structure." Big Bang - Wikipedia

The forces of gravity and expansion must be in incredibly precise proportions. If gravity was too much greater than expansion, the universe would collapse back onto itself. If the force of expansion was too much greater than gravity, the universe would fly apart.

The precision of the balance between the forces is 10 to the 60 power. That's a chance of 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. To put it another way, it would be like aiming at and hitting a 1 inch target located at the opposite end of the universe!

I just read something about the gullibility of Christians for having faith in intelligent design. Of course it would have been written by someone who apparently has no problem in believing in such mind boggling and overwhelming odds in the "chance" appearance of our universe. It would also be by "chance" that an explosion would end up with sentient beings that could even ponder said explosion.

So who is taking what by blind faith?

This seems to be a serious misunderstanding of what happens in the Big Bang scenario.

For a simple question of continued expansion versus contraction, the tolerance is much, much larger than 1 part in 10^60. Roughly speaking, if the strength of gravity (as measured by the gravitational constant G) was increased by 10%, this would change the expansion rate by about 5%, which would not have much effect at all on the current state of the universe.

In other words, your source is wrong.

The only place where something like 10^60 comes up is in the attempts to explain dark energy in terms of quantum fluctuations. And we *know* we don't understand the relevant quantum gravity.

But that is separate from the standard Big Bang scenario.

So, in attempting to claim those who believe in the BB are gullible, you showed how confirmation bias makes those attempting to explain it away gullible.

 

[Heyo]

"The Big Bang theory is a cosmological model of the observable universe from the earliest known periods through its subsequent large-scale evolution. The model describes how the universe expanded from an initial state of extremely high density and high temperature, and offers a comprehensive explanation for a broad range of observed phenomena, including the abundance of light elements, the cosmic microwave background (CMB) radiation, and large-scale structure." Big Bang - Wikipedia

The forces of gravity and expansion must be in incredibly precise proportions. If gravity was too much greater than expansion, the universe would collapse back onto itself. If the force of expansion was too much greater than gravity, the universe would fly apart.

The precision of the balance between the forces is 10 to the 60 power. That's a chance of 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. To put it another way, it would be like aiming at and hitting a 1 inch target located at the opposite end of the universe!

I just read something about the gullibility of Christians for having faith in intelligent design. Of course it would have been written by someone who apparently has no problem in believing in such mind boggling and overwhelming odds in the "chance" appearance of our universe. It would also be by "chance" that an explosion would end up with sentient beings that could even ponder said explosion.

So who is taking what by blind faith?

Your question is closely related to Fine Tuning argument / The best argument for the existence of God.
You may want to have a look and maybe want to support @leroy. He's in dire straits.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

The argument that what has already happened is unlikely is a nonsense argument: regardless of how unlikely, IT HAPPENED, and we are here to study and talk about it.

 

[Altfish]

"The Big Bang theory is a cosmological model of the observable universe from the earliest known periods through its subsequent large-scale evolution. The model describes how the universe expanded from an initial state of extremely high density and high temperature, and offers a comprehensive explanation for a broad range of observed phenomena, including the abundance of light elements, the cosmic microwave background (CMB) radiation, and large-scale structure." Big Bang - Wikipedia

The forces of gravity and expansion must be in incredibly precise proportions. If gravity was too much greater than expansion, the universe would collapse back onto itself. If the force of expansion was too much greater than gravity, the universe would fly apart.

The precision of the balance between the forces is 10 to the 60 power. That's a chance of 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. To put it another way, it would be like aiming at and hitting a 1 inch target located at the opposite end of the universe!

I just read something about the gullibility of Christians for having faith in intelligent design. Of course it would have been written by someone who apparently has no problem in believing in such mind boggling and overwhelming odds in the "chance" appearance of our universe. It would also be by "chance" that an explosion would end up with sentient beings that could even ponder said explosion.

So who is taking what by blind faith?

Most have this has already been picked apart and the faults pointed out but can I just add one thing ...

If one accepts the Big Bang one can make predictions of how the universe has evolved (sorry it is an emotive word ) that is how theories work, they are useful.
The actually moment of the Big Bang is not fully understood or accepted - but nano seconds after it is understood and accepted.

 

[shunyadragon]

"The Big Bang theory is a cosmological model of the observable universe from the earliest known periods through its subsequent large-scale evolution. The model describes how the universe expanded from an initial state of extremely high density and high temperature, and offers a comprehensive explanation for a broad range of observed phenomena, including the abundance of light elements, the cosmic microwave background (CMB) radiation, and large-scale structure." Big Bang - Wikipedia

The forces of gravity and expansion must be in incredibly precise proportions. If gravity was too much greater than expansion, the universe would collapse back onto itself. If the force of expansion was too much greater than gravity, the universe would fly apart.

The precision of the balance between the forces is 10 to the 60 power. That's a chance of 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. To put it another way, it would be like aiming at and hitting a 1 inch target located at the opposite end of the universe!

I just read something about the gullibility of Christians for having faith in intelligent design. Of course it would have been written by someone who apparently has no problem in believing in such mind boggling and overwhelming odds in the "chance" appearance of our universe. It would also be by "chance" that an explosion would end up with sentient beings that could even ponder said explosion.

So who is taking what by blind faith?

Old and moldy non-scientific ID argument. There is a lot of good science has determined the ID argument is a religious argument for God based on an 'argument of ignorance.'

The phony mind boggling argument is not based on science. your 1 in so many zeros is a false argument.

To ad: There is no possible way we could know the odds of the physical constants of our universe, because we do not know the possible range of the constants. It is possible 'the dice are loaded' and our physical constants are not variable determined by the Natural Laws that underlie our physical existence.

 

[exchemist]

"The Big Bang theory is a cosmological model of the observable universe from the earliest known periods through its subsequent large-scale evolution. The model describes how the universe expanded from an initial state of extremely high density and high temperature, and offers a comprehensive explanation for a broad range of observed phenomena, including the abundance of light elements, the cosmic microwave background (CMB) radiation, and large-scale structure." Big Bang - Wikipedia

The forces of gravity and expansion must be in incredibly precise proportions. If gravity was too much greater than expansion, the universe would collapse back onto itself. If the force of expansion was too much greater than gravity, the universe would fly apart.

The precision of the balance between the forces is 10 to the 60 power. That's a chance of 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. To put it another way, it would be like aiming at and hitting a 1 inch target located at the opposite end of the universe!

I just read something about the gullibility of Christians for having faith in intelligent design. Of course it would have been written by someone who apparently has no problem in believing in such mind boggling and overwhelming odds in the "chance" appearance of our universe. It would also be by "chance" that an explosion would end up with sentient beings that could even ponder said explosion.

So who is taking what by blind faith?

You.

Science follows evidence.

 

[exchemist]

This seems to be a serious misunderstanding of what happens in the Big Bang scenario.

For a simple question of continued expansion versus contraction, the tolerance is much, much larger than 1 part in 10^60. Roughly speaking, if the strength of gravity (as measured by the gravitational constant G) was increased by 10%, this would change the expansion rate by about 5%, which would not have much effect at all on the current state of the universe.

In other words, your source is wrong.

The only place where something like 10^60 comes up is in the attempts to explain dark energy in terms of quantum fluctuations. And we *know* we don't understand the relevant quantum gravity.

But that is separate from the standard Big Bang scenario.

So, in attempting to claim those who believe in the BB are gullible, you showed how confirmation bias makes those attempting to explain it away gullible.

You know, it's funny but this is the second time, in the last few days, that this nonsense about fine tuning and gravity has come up.

I reckon there must be a new article out, on some creationist website somewhere, which the usual suspects are gleefully waving about.