Natural "bondage to decay"/Children of God

[Etritonakin]

(I put this here because it deals with the ultimate way science and religion could possibly get along.)

Many believe they will "go to heaven" -but biblical scripture actually says we are to inherit the Earth first -then the entire creation -the entire universe -"the heavens".
It also says we will be given bodies similar to that which allows for God's omnipotence and extreme creative power -which also means not being bound to the earth -or subject to death.
Just as our bondage to decay will no longer be an issue, so we are to use our creative power to bring wonderful creativity, order and permanence to a universe otherwise subject to extreme natural forces.
We will literally have power over cosmic forces -built into our new bodies.
It may seem impossible, but is a matter of ability to interface -which is what a body IS.
Being less subject and interfacing differently -on a different level -from a different position -could allow for a force which could conceivably counter even the otherwise-inevitable collapse of the universe (if that's really a thing).
Will is a force which may counteract the otherwise-inevitable -to a degree dependent on position, understanding and ability to interface. That is true whether one has religious beliefs or not.
God -quite naturally -as the original -holds the top position -but he will bring us very near his own position and grant us knowledge and a powerful interface.

Why? Because it will be AWESOME!!!!!!!!!

Rom 8:18 I consider that our present sufferings are not comparable to the glory that will be revealed in us.19The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

Isa 45:18For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

Phil 3:21Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Why? Because it will be AWESOME!!!!!!!!!

What's so awesome about that? A new body means I as I am, as an individual, ceases to exist just the same as a death and no afterlife.
If it changes who I am, count me out.

 

[Etritonakin]

What's so awesome about that? A new body means I as I am, as an individual, ceases to exist just the same as a death and no afterlife.
If it changes who I am, count me out.

We are a sort of emergent pattern already.
Most of your cells are replaced every seven years anyway.

Nothing stirring about, say.... terraforming by fiat or such things?

Your spirit/mind/personality are just given a better interface...
Though not specified, the new interface would also allow for choice of appearance -as with angels appearing as humans -Christ having a "glorious" body as seen by Moses -in which he will also return after having a human body for a while, etc..

 

[Shadow Wolf]

We are a sort of emergent pattern already.
Most of your cells are replaced every seven years anyway.

Nothing stirring about, say.... terraforming by fiat or such things?

Your spirit/mind/personality are just given a better interface...
Though not specified, the new interface would also allow for choice of appearance -as with angels appearing as humans -Christ having a "glorious" body as seen by Moses -in which he will also return after having a human body for a while, etc..

I have Aspergers. If I lose that then I basically no longer exist and it's someone else entirely different.
And all of us are human. What you speak of is something entirely different. I dare say none of us will exist at that point as we would be so radically transformed that a new entity would come into existence. It's something new that just thinks it's you.

 

[Etritonakin]

I have Aspergers. If I lose that then I basically no longer exist and it's someone else entirely different.
And all of us are human. What you speak of is something entirely different. I dare say none of us will exist at that point as we would be so radically transformed that a new entity would come into existence. It's something new that just thinks it's you.

You would not be entirely different -but only in that one way.

I actually think you are technically correct, but have no problem with such things.
That's the issue some have with the concept of Star Trek transporters -but I'd be more worried about errors -some kind of "ooops" than being a completely new being on the other side.
I don't think it matters except psychologically. It freaks us out that it might not really be ourselves or makes us believe we would be less special if our patterns could simply be reconstructed by new material....
but I think it would very much be us on the other side -as there is sufficient continuity in the things that really matter.

If you take a wider view, the ability to edit any part of reality on a very basic/root level is the end all, be all of abilities.
One idea concerning transporters is to simply edit out any undesired "code" during the transfer -like gene editing, but actually reconstruction everything with a few tweaks.
(I'd go for a full head of hair and less sasquatch everywhere else.)


I think the continuity biblically is in the transfer of spirit/mind/personality.
Continuity is why we can believe we are the same person as when we were conceived -though a great deal is new and different -and some of the old things are gone.

Still -I believe even if we are saved as some sort of perfect representative code and then completely reconstructed exactly the same according to that pattern -we would be no less ourselves whatsoever -because the materials are not the important aspect -and are constantly swapped in humans anyway.
The code would be enough continuity for me. I don't think I'd know any difference except possibly someone informing me I was made from new atoms, etc.
I believe "we" are in the pattern -not so much the specific atoms and energies.

 

[Native]

Many believe they will "go to heaven" -but biblical scripture actually says we are to inherit the Earth first -then the entire creation -the entire universe -"the heavens".
It also says we will be given bodies similar to that which allows for God's omnipotence and extreme creative power -which also means not being bound to the earth -or subject to death.
Just as our bondage to decay will no longer be an issue, so we are to use our creative power to bring wonderful creativity, order and permanence to a universe otherwise subject to extreme natural forces.
We will literally have power over cosmic forces -built into our new bodies.
It may seem impossible, but is a matter of ability to interface -which is what a body IS.
Being less subject and interfacing differently -on a different level -from a different position -could allow for a force which could conceivably counter even the otherwise-inevitable collapse of the universe (if that's really a thing).
Will is a force which may counteract the otherwise-inevitable -to a degree dependent on position, understanding and ability to interface. That is true whether one has religious beliefs or not.
God -quite naturally -as the original -holds the top position -but he will bring us very near his own position and grant us knowledge and a powerful interface.

Why? Because it will be AWESOME!!!!!!!!!

Isn´t it all just a question of combining the physical and spiritual worlds? We have our physical bodies of elementary matters and our spiritual soul of Light. When leaving the physical body, our individual souls returns to the collective and universal Light.

 

[Etritonakin]

Isn´t it all just a question of combining the physical and spiritual worlds? We have our physical bodies of elementary matters and our spiritual soul of Light. When leaving the physical body, our individual souls returns to the collective and universal Light.

Everything in existence is connected -there is nothing truly separate -any separation is by logic/creating some sort of border.
I prefer to get more specific.

I don't believe we are made of different stuff in our physical body than we will be in a "spirit" body, but on a different level of complexity.
Some things are built from atoms, for example, but atoms are built from other things -and it should be possible for a life form to be essentially subatomic -built from more simple things.
We might see ourselves as simple in comparison with God -and in some ways that would be true.
However, our power is actually limited by the relative complexity of our basic building blocks -the fact that we are based on -and interface on -the atomic level.
We show that to be true by creating extensions of ourselves which can in turn interface on a subatomic level.
The difference would be having such capabilities built into our bodies/design.
Being based on -and interfacing on -the subatomic would give us greater power over the atomic -essentially changing it from within -or below or above -depending on which way you look at it.
Being based on -and interfacing on -the most simple level possible would afford the most power.
Most simple base would equate to "most high" in terms of ability, knowledge and access (omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence) .


The same stuff arranged differently -but allowing for access to different levels of complexity -and so reality.
Biblically, we are "a little lower than the angels".
We are presently "low" because our basic complexity level is "high".
It is our border -limit -keeping us bound to the Earth or a similar set of conditions, and limiting our ability to affect reality.

 

[Native]

Native said: ↑
Isn´t it all just a question of combining the physical and spiritual worlds? We have our physical bodies of elementary matters and our spiritual soul of Light. When leaving the physical body, our individual souls returns to the collective and universal Light.

Everything in existence is connected -there is nothing truly separate -any separation is by logic/creating some sort of border.

I in fact agree in this and I just "separated" the two areas in order to explain the basic complexity. Even our ancient native ancestors didn´t make such a separation.

 

[Etritonakin]

Native said: ↑
Isn´t it all just a question of combining the physical and spiritual worlds? We have our physical bodies of elementary matters and our spiritual soul of Light. When leaving the physical body, our individual souls returns to the collective and universal Light.

I in fact agree in this and I just "separated" the two areas in order to explain the basic complexity. Even our ancient native ancestors didn´t make such a separation.

It would seem complexity is the border between the physical and spiritual. Our spirits now perceive and act from within a body limited and isolated from the spiritual/more basic yet powerful -by complexity and arrangement.
Our spirits -if perceiving and acting from within a body which interfaced from a more foundational level (which can also be said to be a higher level in terms of the more complex being subject and dependent) -could access the "spiritual" realm.
We perceive that all things are made from smaller and smaller components -but more or less complex at various levels may be more accurate -and it may be that all things are just one or two basic things and the only difference IS complexity/arrangement.
We are essentially behind a wall of complexity and specific arrangement.

If the spiritual can access the physical -but the physical cannot access the spiritual, it seems most logical to me it would be so due to such.

I may be oversimplifying things -as there may be an extreme number of layers of complexity as far as I know, but the principle is sound. It also need not seem like a limiting factor if we have everything to make us happy on any level. I mean... even if I were in a spirit body that could do all sorts of things throughout the universe, I could be just as happy as an immortal human (might be possible by tweaking the design) if all was well.

Biblically, there is darkness even in the spiritual realm because the "light" is that of righteousness -doing things correctly -and any level may be adversely affected by unrighteousness -doing things the wrong way -which is a matter of the mind/spirit.
The light of righteousness is both knowing what to do and not do (both good and evil) -but doing only good.
As new beings are initially inexperienced and ignorant, we are allowed limited access -and ability to affect -due to our present tendency toward error.

 

[Etritonakin]

I was considering HOW things are in bondage to decay -and that what is necessary to counter it is "refreshing".
We cause many things to continue by refreshing this or that -and design things to be efficient so as to be spent less easily and require less effort to be refreshed.

It's a pretty "universal" theme -things need constantly refreshed power sources, etc. -even mentioned very often in the bible.
"This is the rest, give ye rest to him that is weary; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear."

Basically, the universe is an enormous stored potential -which is thought to presently be increasing and also to cause a tendency back toward collapse -but that is based on an absence of a countering force to maintain expansion -or at least prevent collapse/equalize.
It may be a matter of efficiency and refreshing with minimal effort.
It is true of that which is within the universe, so perhaps it is true of the universe itself.
The same idea could be applied to creativity throughout the universe -stabilizing planetary systems -managing the life cycles of stars.....

Cool to think about, anyway.