Why is evolution even still a debate?

[metis]

This is all nonsense, in terms of science. Evolution is a theory because it is only partially developed and partially effective as a method of understanding complex biological interactions and their results.

Here:
In everyday use, the word "theory" often means an untested hunch, or a guess without supporting evidence.

But for scientists, a theory has nearly the opposite meaning. A theory is a well-substantiated explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can incorporate laws, hypotheses and facts. The theory of gravitation, for instance, explains why apples fall from trees and astronauts float in space. Similarly, the theory of evolution explains why so many plants and animals—some very similar and some very different—exist on Earth now and in the past, as revealed by the fossil record. -- What Is a Theory? A Scientific Definition | AMNH

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If all the mysteries were solved, it would no longer be a theory.

Just admit you don't know what theory means, how it works, or how it's applied.

 

[ppp]

If all the mysteries were solved, it would no longer be a theory.

It would.

But you're missing the point. There are a number of significant mysteries within the evolution theory that remain unsolved. Which is why it remains a theory

No.

and why it's still being discussed and debated (as per the thread title). Mostly because the the parameters of the idea of the evolution of life forms have not been clearly defined, and therefor a lot of confusion remains.

I disagree. I think that the reason that it is still being debated (as per the thread tittle) is because a large subset of creationists (40% of the US and Turkey, iirc) perceive the ToE as a threat to their religious beliefs, and are motivated to try to discredit it. I can think of a few of those creationists who both understand the basics or boundaries of the theory, and attempt to debunk it without resorting to misrepresentation, but they are few and far between. I am unaware of any such persons on this thread,

We don't yet know where or how life originated. Or how common it is in the universe.

Both of which are irrelevant to the TOE.

Or what the defining parameters of "life" even are.

That is an interesting statement that, depending on the scope of what you mean, could go interesting places.

And yet, here on Earth, we can very clearly observe the result of selective mating, and how it can significantly change the characteristics of life forms within a very short span of time. And we can see how the environment supports some of the changes while eliminating others. Such that it is clear that these factors count significantly in the way life forms evolved here on Earth, once it arrived.

On this we agree. Assuming we are talking short in terms of deep time. Although I would say natural selection, of which selective mating is a component.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

So... ...let me understand. Since science is so successful it follows that they are universally correct and that we know everything. Homo omnisciencis. Your reasoning is just as circular as "evolution".

That's your reasoning, not his.

And the theory of evolution is "commonly regarded as correct" (see meme below). It would have been falsified by now were it not, like Piltdown man being discussed on another thread. Those waiting for that falsifying find have been waiting longer than those waiting for Jimmy Hoffa or Amelia Earhart to return.

Evolution is a theory because it is only partially developed and partially effective as a method of understanding complex biological interactions and their results.

Don't be like Dad here:

 

[Wildswanderer]

And we are pointing out that the things you claim it cannot know, it actually can and does.

You have not demonstrated that at all.

 

[Wildswanderer]

False. Not only do you have contempt for science but you have contempt for fellow RF members who have valid education and knowledge about these matters. Do you really think your rejection and denial of established science carries any weight? You are getting science wrong, why is that?

Again no substance here, just claims.

 

[Wildswanderer]

The theory of evolution is a theory about how species change over time. It has been established that they do, in fact, change. If you are not interested in that, then don't worry about it.

So what? Species changing doesn't equal the entire theory.... There's a lot of speculation added on.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

And gravity just always existed, well because

1. you're moving the goalposts. you were talking about "stars creating themselves". I merely informed you, since you seem not aware of it, that stars form through gravity. You can call that "creating themselves" if you wish, although I don't really see the point. It's just gravity working on matter and once density reaches a critical point, nuclear fusion sets in and a star is born.

2. gravity is the result of mass curving space-time according to the theory of relativity.
Sure you can say that gravity "always existed", in the sense that whenever there was a space-time, then mass would curve it. So sure. It's a weird thing to say though, imo.

...And the elements must be eternal too. Sounds like faith to me.

Well, according to conservation laws matter/energy can't be created or destroyed.

Make of that what you will. But I assure you that "faith" has no part of it.


A piece of advice: you might want to tone it down at this point. It's pretty obvious that you are now touching on subjects that are so way over your head that it's not even funny...
Even basic biology already was outside of your grasp... let's not get into cosmology and theoretical physics because there really is no point.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Why?

Because literally everything would just be an accident..

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Something from nothing. Right.

H2O molecules form from H's and O's.
Not from nothing.

 

[Wildswanderer]

That's not what evolution deals with. Evolution concerns itself with how life developed once it started.

It doesn't even do that well.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Which you don't have for life from non life, so quit pretending you have something you don't

Nobody claimed that abiogenesis is solved.
So quit pretending that anyone is pretending otherwise.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Again, does that include kids cancer? Awesome, indeed.

Ciao

- viole

Why is it always about kids? In a world created by evolution, kids are just as much cosmic accidents as the rest of us. If they get sick and die, well it's just survival of the fittest...why should it matter?
The very fact that we care more deeply about children points to a Transcendence that could not exist in a world created by chance.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Because literally everything would just be an accident..

You assume.
How about talking with people and asking questions before you make such outlandish and nonsense assumptions. Take Carl Sagan, for example. He was an atheist and scientist, but there's no denying he held a great sense of awe and wonder for the Cosmos.

 

[Wildswanderer]

You're not aware of the evidence of a beginning, 13.787 billion years ago?

I'm aware that that's one of the guesses.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The very fact that we care more deeply about children points to a Transcendence that could not exist in a world created by chance.

How?

 

[Wildswanderer]

You assume.
How about talking with people and asking questions before you make such outlandish and nonsense assumptions. Take Carl Sagan, for example. He was an atheist and scientist, but there's no denying he held a great sense of awe and wonder for the Cosmos.

Sure... because he was made in the image of God like the rest of us.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The topic of evolution is meaningless if it's just a point A to point B theory.

Since evolutionary biology is concerned with the processes that existing life is subject to, I'ld say that it's the very opposite of meaningless to then have evolutionary biology address those processes that existing life is subject to.


Meaningless would be if it starts addressing things that are outside of its scope of inquiry.

It still has a million holes in it

Such as?

, but the real question people have is why are we here? Where did it all start? Not whether the chicken or egg came first.

Just because people are interested in that question, doesn't mean that no other questions should be explored.
By all means, explore that question as much as you like.

Why on earth should that prevent biologists from studying biology?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Evolution is still a theory because there are many aspects of it that remain a mystery to us.

www.notjustatheory.com

 

[PureX]

Don't be like Dad here:

*Edited by staff* The disagreement is because the parameters of the "theory of evolution" are not being defined. ESPECIALLY in regards to the conversations people have on this site! Evolution is not a "fact" of science or of any other intellectual discipline. It is a WORKING THEORY. If we limit it to the changes in characteristics that happen within a species via selective breeding, it is an observed fact. But no one is really limiting it to just selective breeding as an evolutionary ideal. And the moment we allow the theory to include the evolution from one species into another, things start to get pretty muddy. Because we don't really know exactly how that happens. And especially, why, if it happens via selection/mutation, it tends to happen so quickly, leaving little actual evidence of it's having occurred. And if we allow the theory to include the origin of life from inanimate matter, then the theory gets a whole lot more muddy, because we still have no way of testing the various proposals that we've come up with regarding that, so far.

So the scientism cult can spout off all it wants about how the theory of evolution is now a sacrosanct fact in the holy book of the scientism cult, but they're still quite wrong unless they've limited the theory to nothing but animal husbandry. Which matters only to some farmers and ranchers. Of course this won't deter them from spouting off their absurd pseudo-scientific dogma at every available opportunity.