Homosexuality and religious.

[Vinayaka]

Tells you a lot, really.

Indeed. But I'm not surprised. How's Tronna treating you? We have to get back there ... one of these years.

 

[F1fan]

God is God and He judges how He pleases. I have absolute trust and complete certainty that whatever He decrees is right, true and in our best interests. So we agree to disagree.

So children born with defects and the genes that cause cancers is in their best interest?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Yes Baha’u’llah appeared in human form to be able to communicate God’s guidance to us.

In every world, He appears according to the capacity of that world. For example, in the world of spirits He manifests Himself to them and appears unto them with the signs of the Spirit. So, likewise, in bodies in the world of names and attributes.

Verily, were God the Exalted to appear in His (proper) grade and form, and in a manner befitting His Station, no one could ever approach Him or endure to be near Him. (Baha’u’llah)


PRE-EXISTENCE—of Prophets
The Prophets, unlike us, are pre-existent. The soul of Christ existed in the spiritual world before His birth in this world. We cannot imagine what that world is like, so words are inadequate to picture His state of being.


Science is truth but we are always learning new things. God’s knowledge encompasses both science and religion and anything God reveals through His Messengers may be as of yet unproven by us humans but is regardless, true I believe.

Those last two words of your post -- "I believe" -- in my opinion are becoming more and more an excuse. An excuse for, "well, I don't know much science, but I believe," or an excuse for "I can't figure out what's right and wrong on my own, so I believe."

Some of us believe that actually learning about the world can answer a lot of questions -- and much, much better than religious credulity.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Tells you a lot, really.

Just out of interest. Have you got all the facts correct about this? I’ve read similar reports but the letter from the Baha’i institution was very reasonable and fair.

it’s unfair to us Baha’is to slander us publicly without presenting the full story. I just think the full facts should be presented here. I have noticed a lot of ‘editing’ of Baha’i Writings, joining separate letters together misrepresenting what was really stated and way out of context.

Please, if you consider yourselves to be upright and just then let’s present the complete context.

 

[F1fan]

I think it very reasonable and rational that Baha’u’llah teaches the unity of mankind and peace between races, religions and nations in an age where leaders like Putin are threatening world war 3. Not to mention despotism in Syria, Iran, Yemen and Myanmar.

So we humans have created a really wonderful world haven’t we? It’s time we tried Baha’u’llah’s teachings and if they don’t work we can always have another world war.

Or even Islam if it brings world peace. Will you become Muslim if all other peolpe agree to adopt Islam?

 

[loverofhumanity]

So children born with defects and the genes that cause cancers is in their best interest?

That’s why God has given us the gift of science and the power of understanding to be able to correct defects that might be passed on.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Or even Islam if it brings world peace. Will you become Muslim if all other peolpe agree to adopt Islam?

All Baha’is already believe in Muhammad and the Quran.

 

[Vinayaka]

Just out of interest. Have you got all the facts correct about this? I’ve read similar reports but the letter from the Baha’i institution was very reasonable and fair.

it’s unfair to us Baha’is to slander us publicly without presenting the full story. I just think the full facts should be presented here. I have noticed a lot of ‘editing’ of Baha’i Writings, joining separate letters together misrepresenting what was really stated and way out of context.

Please, if you consider yourselves to be upright and just then let’s present the complete context.

What letter? If you're referring to the video, the NSA had no response. How can it be reasonable and fair if it was nothing?

 

[dybmh]

What do the major sects of Judaism believe about homosexuality? Is it similar to Christianity? The more conservative sects hate it and call it evil. And the liberal sects are very accepting of it.

It's a moving target. As with all major issues in Judaism there are multiple opinions. In general your assessment is correct. But I've never seen or heard anything hateful or accusations of evil
The liberal congregations are LGBTQ+ friendly. Homosexual couples are welcome, and homosexual clergy are accepted. The ultra orthodox don't accept it, and there are those in that community who have written opinions similar to what we're hearing from the Baha'i in this thread. They are permissive of the individual, but deem gay male sodomy to be an abomination. Female homosexuality is a lesser offense.

If you want details, check out the wiki article below. It explains it better than I can.

Jewish views on homosexuality - Wikipedia.

 

[CG Didymus]

I'm done with you. Whether it is just your religion that has made you a complete ****, or whether you were like that anyway, I don't really care.

I love her threads, because of all the controversial things she says. But I had to stop responding directly to her. It's been the same $&%# now for years. And naturally she probably feels the same way about me. But I liked the Baha'i Faith a lot of years ago. Now I'm wondering if they really are a religion that can bring peace and unity to the world. They can't even bring peace and unity here on a religious forum.

 

[Sheldon]

Just out of interest. Have you got all the facts correct about this? I’ve read similar reports but the letter from the Baha’i institution was very reasonable and fair.

Please, if you consider yourselves to be upright and just then let’s present the complete context.

1. Do you believe homosexuality is a natural healthy and harmless variation of adult sexual desire?
2. Do you believe gay people should have the same rights as straight people?

That sums up the context and cuts through any ambiguity.

 

[loverofhumanity]

More Bahaispeak. Say what seems to please the 'enemy', and maybe they'll go away. The fellow in the video that no Bahai will watch said that when he asked for counsel about being gay, he was told, "Get married and it'll go away!" Is that how you would counsel a gay Baha'i?

I know darn well I'm not anti-Baha'i. I didn't say that, a Baha'i did.

Baha’is make plenty of mistakes. That was obviously an insensitive and unloving thing to say. We Baha’is often lack wisdom and are very inexperienced and immature in many ways myself included.

 

[loverofhumanity]

In order to objectively compare these, you would need to first demonstrate the latter exists at all. Simply making the claim is meaningless.

By spiritual values it’s referring to virtues such as love, compassion, justice, forgiveness etc

 

[loverofhumanity]

Those last two words of your post -- "I believe" -- in my opinion are becoming more and more an excuse. An excuse for, "well, I don't know much science, but I believe," or an excuse for "I can't figure out what's right and wrong on my own, so I believe."

Some of us believe that actually learning about the world can answer a lot of questions -- and much, much better than religious credulity.

I can only speak for myself. I’m not a scientist but I’ve studied deeply about Baha’u’llah and other religions and come to a conclusion. It’s not for me to judge your beliefs.

 

[loverofhumanity]

What letter? If you're referring to the video, the NSA had no response. How can it be reasonable and fair if it was nothing?

I have seen various responses and they were all fair. But individual Baha’is often make mistakes.

 

[dybmh]

It is becoming apparent that large part of RF is not into Faith.

A place a person of Faith, should most likely avoid and leave them unto themselves.

Such is my current thoughts.

Regards Tony

I'm sorry you feel that way. The simple truth is: God says so is not a very good reason to discriminate. God gave us a brain to think and a heart to feel. Using God said so as a reason undermines our God given faculties. It denies our humanity.

 

[CG Didymus]

Uh. Is there a word for 'independent investigation' that means only Baha'i approved resources can be used? I'll have to coin one. Bahainvestigation?

Before a person becomes a Baha'i, they are to investigate on their own, preferably by using mostly pro-Baha'i sources. That way, it's more likely they will come to see that the Baha'i Faith is the absolute truth. So, they join. Once they're in, then they are to do and believe whatever the Baha'i writings says for them to do and believe. And, apparently, listening to ex-Baha'is is not something they should do. And I can see that. That way the Faith continues to look all rosy. Why would they want to hear all the negative stuff?

 

[Vinayaka]

I can only speak for myself. I’m not a scientist but I’ve studied deeply about Baha’u’llah and other religions and come to a conclusion. It’s not for me to judge your beliefs.

Baha'u'llah did though, and so did all the leaders that follow. The very concept of PROGRESSIVE manifestation judges all previous religions as being inferior to the so called current one. They were once suitable, but need to be improved and updated to the current age. So that judgmental attitude is right at the very core.

 

[F1fan]

It is becoming apparent that large part of RF is not into Faith.

Most are not into bike racing. Can you believe it? Terrible.

A place a person of Faith, should most likely avoid and leave them unto themselves.

The dilemma is that theists hold beliefs that are not fact based, and simply can't be argued for in debate. the mistake is how theists tend to assume way too many things are true, and critical thinkers challenege these assumptions. I've said before that theists in the modern age would be very wise to frame their religious beliefs more symbolically instead as if they are materially true.

That is a huge irony since theists insist their god is immaterial, but then make claims as if their God is material. So a huge blunder, and indicative of people who have adopted religious ideas without thinking them through.

Have you ever considered the possibility that you are here to learn instead of teach?

 

[CG Didymus]

I'm sorry you feel that way. The simple truth is: God says so is not a very good reason to discriminate. God gave us a brain to think and a heart to feel. Using God said so as a reason undermines our God given faculties. It denies our humanity.

And, from what I understand, the Baha'i Faith would agree with that. But you know the problem, people in a religion that believes it has the newest and best and only completely correct message of God can get frustrated when their words aren't seen for what they are, The Truth. Baha'is, I think, do mean well. But that means they are trying to teach us all that "Truth" that they believe in.