Followers of Abrahamic Religions Only: God, Why So Quiet and Why So Invisible?

[Ehav4Ever]

Interesting. Jews are not followers of an Abrahamic religion? And don't use Hebrew scripture? Well, that's something new.

Long story short. The term, concept, and statement "Abrahamic religion" doesn't exist in ancient Hebrew or even modern Hebrew. The use of the term/statement in English means something completely foreign to what is found in ancient Hebrew text or even how we Jews speak Hebrew. Thus, when I see a statement like that in English the first thing I think is that it is western term normally used to define concepts derived from Christianity.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Do you think you hear God? If so, what is that experience like? And do you discern an actual God communicating to you versus you imagining it?

You don’t have to take my word for it. You can listen for yourself. All that’s needed for you to make a start, is willingness and open mindedness. God isn’t hiding from you, but rather the other way round.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Learn to do what? Decipher ordinary every day events as secret messages?

Perhaps, in a way. Although it’s less a matter of deciphering messages, as seeing the divine and miraculous in the mundane and the everyday. And conscious contact with God is something which generally manifests through the spirit rather than the intellect. For instance Leo Tolstoy’s definition of faith, is that it is a spiritual condition, a state of being, not a matter of opinion or even belief.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Yes, that is the answer that I know of too, with the exception of the very special and rare occasions when there is perceivable feedback in prayer. (Could you elaborate more on that, @PearlSeeker?)

As an ex-Catholic (still cultural Catholic) I know a little about Catholic teaching. What is written in the Bible is called God's public revelation. It culminated and was completed in Christ. Until Christ's second coming there will be no public revelation. We are expected to have faith based on scripture and apostolic tradition.

Meanwhile some persons have had so called private revelations. They can't add to or change the complete revelation. They have to be recognized by the authority of the church...

Private revelation - Wikipedia

 

[PearlSeeker]

Long story short. The term, concept, and statement "Abrahamic religion" doesn't exist in ancient Hebrew or even modern Hebrew. The use of the term/statement in English means something completely foreign to what is found in ancient Hebrew text or even how we Jews speak Hebrew. Thus, when I see a statement like that in English the first thing I think is that it is western term normally used to define concepts derived from Christianity.

How would you then call Judaism, Christianity and Islam?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

How would you then call Judaism, Christianity and Islam?

I would call Christianity -> Christianity and I would call Islam -> Islam.

The above are independent things that are not connected to how Torath Mosheh came about.

In terms of the term Judaism, if we are talking about what is ancient and common among world-wide Jewish communities that predate the last 500 years, the following would apply.

Torath Mosheh=Yahuduth and by extention what is often termed as Orthodox Judaism is a type of Torath Mosheh. See the below breakdown.

 

[F1fan]

You don’t have to take my word for it. You can listen for yourself. All that’s needed for you to make a start, is willingness and open mindedness. God isn’t hiding from you, but rather the other way round.

I noticed you avoided my question asking how you discern an actual voice of God from your imagination. Do you have no such ability? Wouldn't you say it's pretty important?

I have offered my own testimony of listening for God and heard nothing. I had no interest in pretending I heard a voice or deliberatey deceiving myself, yet nothing. So what's going on? Other skeptic searchers have had the same experience, they have listened without condition, and heard nothing.

So could it be that it's more likely those who think they hear God are imagining it? Afterall they never expain their method to discern a real God from an imagined God, so room for doubt to an open mind.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Perhaps, in a way. Although it’s less a matter of deciphering messages, as seeing the divine and miraculous in the mundane and the everyday. And conscious contact with God is something which generally manifests through the spirit rather than the intellect. For instance Leo Tolstoy’s definition of faith, is that it is a spiritual condition, a state of being, not a matter of opinion or even belief.

Too uncertain. How would you know it's not just a play of imagination - a kind of apophenia?

Tolstoy was a seeker. He struggled with faith and he couldn't believe anything supernatural - miracles, Son of God... He could only believe moral teaching... He admired faith (blissful ignorance) of a peasant - faith he personally couldn't accept:

“How often I envied the peasants for their illiteracy and lack of education. The statements of faith, which for me produced nonsense, for them produced nothing false.” (A Confession)​

 

[PearlSeeker]

The above are independent things that are not connected to how Torath Mosheh came about.

Sorry, I don't understand. Christianity and Islam are in no relation to Torah?

 

[F1fan]

Perhaps, in a way. Although it’s less a matter of deciphering messages, as seeing the divine and miraculous in the mundane and the everyday.

So rely on human imagination to come to a sort of interpretation that pleases the human mind.

And conscious contact with God is something which generally manifests through the spirit rather than the intellect.

So are you claiming God has contact with human consciousness? What is the spirit, then, consciousness? Could you be confusing the spirit with the imagination and ego so that the mind creates an experience that self-validates religious beliefs? Is this possible? Intellect is a cognitive tool that allows a human mind to discern real from fantasy, so you don't use intellect?

For instance Leo Tolstoy’s definition of faith, is that it is a spiritual condition, a state of being, not a matter of opinion or even belief.

Given you are expressing your beliefs in regards to faith and spirit I don't see how Tolstoy's view helps you out. States of being are like joy, contentment, pride in an accomplishment, etc.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Sorry, I don't understand. Christianity and Islam are in no relation to Torah?

No. Simply put, they are systems that started up much later from groups that were not Torath Mosheh Israelis/Jews.

 

[Riders]

In ancient times written in the Hebrew text or Hebrew Scriptures or the Old Testament, as some people like to call it, God often spoke to people or made some sort of visible manifestations of his presence or his power etc. However, now in the 20th and the 21st century, I personally have never seen or heard of any evidence of this other than claims that purportedly occurred in remote villages or parts of the world where most people don't know about or have travel to. And that you find out about because you incidentally read something in a book or magazine or saw something that was ambiguous or suspect in a YouTube video that you had made a search for in regard to that topic. Therefore, can those from the Abrahamic Religions comment more about this?

I think he communicates with us but we aren't always willing to hear. What about all the tsunamis and natural disasters we have had in the past several years that we didn't use to have as kids? I think God is warning us about the way we are treating the environment.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Too uncertain. How would you know it's not just a play of imagination - a kind of apophenia?

Tolstoy was a seeker. He struggled with faith and he couldn't believe anything supernatural - miracles, Son of God... He could only believe moral teaching... He admired faith (blissful ignorance) of a peasant - faith he personally couldn't accept:

“How often I envied the peasants for their illiteracy and lack of education. The statements of faith, which for me produced nonsense, for them produced nothing false.” (A Confession)​

Yes, Tolstoy was a seeker, and he seems to have had more than one crisis of faith in his life. It wasn’t the idea of God he couldn’t accept though, but rather anything which conflicted with reason, which in any case he considered God given. The man who wrote War and Peace certainly believed in God.

In later life he seems to have had his doubts, but he certainly saw the value of faith, even if he couldn’t share what he saw as the superstitious faith of the peasants. One of the principle themes of A Confession is his journey back to a faith that worked for him;

“Faith remained as irrational to me as before, but I could not fail to recognise that it alone provides mankind with the answers to the question of life, and consequently with the possibility of life.”

 

[PearlSeeker]

Yes, Tolstoy was a seeker, and he seems to have had more than one crisis of faith in his life. It wasn’t the idea of God he couldn’t accept though, but rather anything which conflicted with reason, which in any case he considered God given.

His later idea of God was not much theistic.

“Prayer is addressed to the personal God, not because he is personal (indeed, I know for certain that he is not personal, because personality is limitation, while God is unlimited)…” (Thoughts on God)

 

[pearl]

Yes, Tolstoy was a seeker, and he seems to have had more than one crisis of faith in his life. It wasn’t the idea of God he couldn’t accept though, but rather anything which conflicted with reason, which in any case he considered God given. The man who wrote War and Peace certainly believed in God.

And in the children's book,
Where Love Is, God Is by Leo Tolstoy - online literature

 

[David Davidovich]

When Jesus was speaking to some of the people in Jerusalem at the time when he was walking upon the Earth he called them an adulterous generation who seeks for a sign - that means they sought evidence that he was who he said he was.
What was written by the Hebrews was meant to be passed down from generation to generation to generation and those outside of the Hebrew nationality were given a chance to also receive the Gospel.
Jesus said there will be no more signs except the sign of Jonah - which represented his death, burial, and resurrection. Jesus said blessed are they that believe and not see, when speaking to one of his disciples that they named Thomas - who said he needed proof, he wanted to stick his finger in the holes in Jesus's hands.

The ancients was given the evidence and after the resurrection that type of communication ceased. There will be no evidence for those who cry out for it, until the whole world sees him coming from the clouds in the sky with his Angels following him.

So, are you saying that the ancients were allowed to have visible and audible evidence, but we aren't?

Which couldn't be possible until the invention of the television / internet.

What!??? You really lost me with that last sentence.

 

[David Davidovich]

We can hear him.
Remember the " still, small voice."?
God may shout at times but he more often whispers, and only those really trying to hear will hear him.

Yeah, but accompanied by a mighty wind that broke rocks in pieces, and an earthquake and fire.

There is only one place in Scripture where God is said to speak in a “still small voice,” and it was to Elijah after his dramatic victory over the prophets of Baal (1 Kings 18:20-40; 19:12). Told that Jezebel, the wife of Ahab, king of Israel, was seeking kill him, Elijah ran into the wilderness and collapsed in exhaustion. God sent an angel with food and water to strengthen him, told him to rest, and then sent him to Horeb. In a cave there, Elijah voices his complaint that all of God’s prophets had been killed by Jezebel and he alone had survived. God instructed him to stand on the mountain in His presence. Then the Lord sent a mighty wind which broke the rocks in pieces; then He sent an earthquake and a fire, but His voice was in none of them. After all that, the Lord spoke to Elijah in the still small voice, or “gentle whisper.”

click here: What does it mean that God speaks in a still small voice? | GotQuestions.org

 

[David Davidovich]

When I said "Community of faith" I was referring to all Christians and not to one particular group of Christians.

And yet, collectively, Christians are divided not only politically, but doctrinally also. Therefore, how can God be speaking to all of them?

Second, Christians have divided as a result of the breakdown of apparent consensus. This happened between the Byzantine East and the Roman West in the early Middle Ages. While linguistic, political, and cultural factors certainly played a part, irreducibly doctrinal matters were also involved.

click here: Christianity - Schism: division over substantial matters | Britannica

 

[David Davidovich]

He definitely speaks to me through his creation, also and through people. How do we know it's God? As Jesus said, we recognize his voice because we are his followers.

I appreciate your answer, but that sounds very subjective.

 

[David Davidovich]

Learn to do what? Decipher ordinary every day events as secret messages?