Is Belief (or Lack Thereof) a Choice?

[RestlessSoul]

I tried to control my beliefs. The best I can do is be open minded.

Open mindedness is a very valuable quality, precisely because it is so rare.

 

[PureX]

You believe something because you are convinced it is true by evidence. You cannot choose to believe something that you are not convinced by evidence is true. Can you really choose to believe the moon is made from cheese? I don't believe that is possible.

Most people are convinced that what they want to believe is true, is true because they want to believe it is. Just as you are, now, about the inability to choose one's beliefs.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Most people are convinced that what they want to believe is true, is true because they want to believe it is. Just as you are, now, about the inability to choose one's beliefs.

I disagree. I want to believe I have $5M. I cannot choose to believe I do. People believe things they want to because they are convinced by the evidence they seek. Their bias does not seek good evidence only evidence that supports their desired belief. They are convinced by that evidence, they are not choosing to believe it.

 

[PureX]

I disagree. I want to believe I have $5M.

No, you don't want to believe that. Or you would. But you couldn't make that believe work for you, so you don't.

I cannot choose to believe I do.

Of course you can. And all you have to do is look around you to see that this is true. Or look at your own beliefs and see how many of them are by choice. In fact, you believe you can't choose BY CHOICE. Because it suits you preferred worldview. That worldview being that you believe as you do because you know you're right. As opposed to believing as you do because it suits your sense of self-righteousness.

People believe things they want to because they are convinced by the evidence they seek.

Sure, and they seek whatever evidence supports their preferred belief, while they ignore whatever evidence does not. Just as you are ignoring the evidence of all the people that choose to believe things that are obviously not evidently true.

Their bias does not seek good evidence only evidence that supports their desired belief.

Their bias (preferred belief) is telling them what is and is not good evidence. Watch the scientism crowd clamor about how the only good (real) evidence is the evidence brought forth by material testing and empirical reasoning. In other words, the only good evidence is the evidence that comes from and supports their clearly biased worldview. It's classic confirmation bias.

They are convinced by that evidence, they are not choosing to believe it.

They are choosing the evidence that they choose because they are convinced that it is the "good" evidence. Why are they convinced that it is "good" evidence? Because it supports the belief that they've already deemed the proper (desired) conclusion. It's classic confirmation bias. And yet they not only cannot see it, they fight tooth and nail to deny it.

Nevertheless. They ARE choosing their beliefs by choosing the evidence they deem suitable to substantiate those beliefs.

It's classic confirmation bias.

 

[ChatwithGod]

Belief can be seen as a choice, influenced by experiences, teachings, and reflections. It involves an active decision to trust or accept certain truths. On the other hand, lack of belief might also stem from one's experiences and reasoning. It can be a choice not to accept something due to lack of evidence or personal conviction.

 

[bobhikes]

Is belief a choice? Why or why not?

Is lack of belief a choice? Why or why not?

Belief is a broad category. We have a basic belief system involved in our development that is not a choice but once we can rationally think we have the choice to rely less and less on belief. The more knowledge we accumulate the more belief is a choice. Lack of Belief doesn't exist in humans' belief is tied to our core self.

 

[paarsurrey]

Is Belief (or Lack Thereof) a Choice?

It is a clear choice, right, please?:

18:30
And say, ‘It is the truth from your Lord; wherefore let him who will, believe, and let him who will, disbelieve.’ Verily, We have prepared for the wrongdoers a fire whose flaming canopy shall enclose them. And if they cry for help, they will be helped with water like molten lead which will burn the faces. How dreadful the drink, and how evil is the Fire as a resting place!

Holy Quran: Read, Listen and Search

In Arabic, Chinese, English, French, German, Italian, Spanish and Urdu.

www.alislam.org

Right?
____________________
Original Arabic narration/text from Muhammad's time is below:
18:30
وَقُلِ الۡحَقُّ مِنۡ رَّبِّکُمۡ ۟ فَمَنۡ شَآءَ فَلۡیُؤۡمِنۡ وَّمَنۡ شَآءَ فَلۡیَکۡفُرۡ ۙ اِنَّاۤ اَعۡتَدۡنَا لِلظّٰلِمِیۡنَ نَارًا ۙ اَحَاطَ بِہِمۡ سُرَادِقُہَا ؕ وَاِنۡ یَّسۡتَغِیۡثُوۡا یُغَاثُوۡا بِمَآءٍ کَالۡمُہۡلِ یَشۡوِی الۡوُجُوۡہَ ؕ بِئۡسَ الشَّرَابُ ؕ وَسَآءَتۡ مُرۡتَفَقًا ﴿۳۰

It is a clear choice, as is evident from the following verses:-
(Below, original Arabic narration/text is given from Muhammad's time, together with English translation as understood by Sher Ali, the translator.)
2:257
لَاۤ اِکۡرَاہَ فِی الدِّیۡنِ ۟ۙ قَدۡ تَّبَیَّنَ الرُّشۡدُ مِنَ الۡغَیِّ ۚ فَمَنۡ یَّکۡفُرۡ بِالطَّاغُوۡتِ وَیُؤۡمِنۡۢ بِاللّٰہِ فَقَدِ اسۡتَمۡسَکَ بِالۡعُرۡوَۃِ الۡوُثۡقٰی ٭ لَا انۡفِصَامَ لَہَا ؕ وَاللّٰہُ سَمِیۡعٌ عَلِیۡمٌ ﴿۲۵۷
There should be no compulsion in religion. Surely, right has become distinct from wrong; so whosoever refuses to be led by those who transgress, and believes in Allah, has surely grasped a strong handle which knows no breaking. And Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.
2:258
اَللّٰہُ وَلِیُّ الَّذِیۡنَ اٰمَنُوۡا ۙ یُخۡرِجُہُمۡ مِّنَ الظُّلُمٰتِ اِلَی النُّوۡرِ ۬ؕ وَالَّذِیۡنَ کَفَرُوۡۤا اَوۡلِیٰٓـُٔہُمُ الطَّاغُوۡتُ ۙ یُخۡرِجُوۡنَہُمۡ مِّنَ النُّوۡرِ اِلَی الظُّلُمٰتِ ؕ اُولٰٓئِکَ اَصۡحٰبُ النَّارِ ۚ ہُمۡ فِیۡہَا خٰلِدُوۡنَ ﴿۲۵۸
Allah is the friend of those who believe: He brings them out of every kind of darkness into light. And those who disbelieve, their friends are the transgressors who bring them out of light into every kind of darkness. These are the inmates of the Fire; therein shall they abide.

Holy Quran: Read, Listen and Search

In Arabic, Chinese, English, French, German, Italian, Spanish and Urdu.

www.alislam.org

Right?

Regards

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

No, you don't want to believe that. Or you would. But you couldn't make that believe work for you, so you don't.

Not how belief works. A belief is simply what you are convinced is true by whatever evidence you think is valid.

Of course you can. And all you have to do is look around you to see that this is true. Or look at your own beliefs and see how many of them are by choice. In fact, you believe you can't choose BY CHOICE. Because it suits you preferred worldview. That worldview being that you believe as you do because you know you're right. As opposed to believing as you do because it suits your sense of self-righteousness.

I have no beliefs by choice. I cannot actual convince myself I have $5 when I don't That is impossible for me and for everyone else. I can act like I believe it, but I cannot actually truly believe it when I am convinced by the evidence that it is false.

I don't know for certain I am right. Certainty is impossible in my opinion. BUt what I believe is true I am convinced by the evidence. When I get new evidence or reevaluate the evidence then I may not believe something is true. I did this with religion.

Sure, and they seek whatever evidence supports their preferred belief, while they ignore whatever evidence does not. Just as you are ignoring the evidence of all the people that choose to believe things that are obviously not evidently true.

You misunderstand me. Just because someone believes something to be true does not make it true. Two people can look at the same evidence and come to different conclusions. That is because we all evaluate evidence differently. I acknowledge that I have beliefs that I am convinced are true that could be not true.

Their bias (preferred belief) is telling them what is and is not good evidence. Watch the scientism crowd clamor about how the only good (real) evidence is the evidence brought forth by material testing and empirical reasoning. In other words, the only good evidence is the evidence that comes from and supports their clearly biased worldview. It's classic confirmation bias.

This is not what I am talking about.

They are choosing the evidence that they choose because they are convinced that it is the "good" evidence. Why are they convinced that it is "good" evidence? Because it supports the belief that they've already deemed the proper (desired) conclusion. It's classic confirmation bias. And yet they not only cannot see it, they fight tooth and nail to deny it.

Confirmation bias is real, but I am not discussing the best method to come to truth. I am discussing why beliefs are not a choice.

Nevertheless. They ARE choosing their beliefs by choosing the evidence they deem suitable to substantiate those beliefs.

It's classic confirmation bias.

Again, maybe so but that is not choosing a belief. It is being convinced by evidence something is true. It is a bad way to determine truth but I am discussing choosing beliefs not the best way to evaluate evidence.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Belief can be seen as a choice, influenced by experiences, teachings, and reflections. It involves an active decision to trust or accept certain truths. On the other hand, lack of belief might also stem from one's experiences and reasoning. It can be a choice not to accept something due to lack of evidence or personal conviction.

If belief is determined by experiences, teachings, family background, and emotional connection to particular faith communities, it is not a choice.

 

[PureX]

Not how belief works. A belief is simply what you are convinced is true by whatever evidence you think is valid.

Only to a simpleton. To someone that is willing to give it a little more thought, there is a lot more to it.

I have no beliefs by choice.

So you have chosen to believe. And now, having made that choice, you are going to fight tooth and nail to defend it. And you will do that by picking and choosing any "evidence" that supports it, while rejecting and dismissing any evidence that does not support it. And all of this, too, will be your choice.

I cannot actual convince myself I have $5 when I don't That is impossible for me and for everyone else.

You keep choosing examples that are not relevant to any of the issues at hand. You can choose to believe ANYTHING that you cannot prove wrong. And even then, your "proof" or lack thereof will also be of your choosing.

I can act like I believe it, but I cannot actually truly believe it when I am convinced by the evidence that it is false.

The only thing stopping you is your beliefe that you can't do it. And even that just goes to show that it is your choice.

I don't know for certain I am right.

Then you could logically change your mind at any point for any reason. And still not know that you are right, or wrong. But instead, you BELIEVE that you are right. And to support and protect that belief, you have to reject the possibility that you are wrong. And THAT'S why you think you have no choice. You have actually just rejected any other choice to protect the one you already made. .

Certainty is impossible in my opinion.

And yet you believe you are right so certainly that you cannot even imagine changing your mind.

BUt what I believe is true I am convinced by the evidence.

Of course you are. You chose to validate the evidence that supported what you already believed, and invalidate any evidence to the contrary. As ALL TRUE BELIEVER DO. It's what defined a 'true believer'.

You misunderstand me. Just because someone believes something to be true does not make it true.

Try telling them that. They (you) believe that it's SO true that they cannot possibly believe anything else.

Two people can look at the same evidence and come to different conclusions.

More proof that belief is a choice, don't you think?

That is because we all evaluate evidence differently.

Yes, with a huge bias toward what we have already determined to be true.

I acknowledge that I have beliefs that I am convinced are true that could be not true.

The why maintain an unfounded conviction? Aside from an ego-stroke, what do you get from it?

This is not what I am talking about.

Confirmation bias is real, but I am not discussing the best method to come to truth.

What you are discussing is confirmation boas. That's what its called when we choose to accept only the evidence that support what we have already chosen to believe to be true.

I am discussing why beliefs are not a choice.

But they are a choice. And an unnecessary one at that. We don't actually need to believe anything. We could just live life taking the facts and circumstances at face value. Knowing full well that we may be wrong, and that the moment the facts and circumstances change, we will change with them. Belief is just the result of our desire to always be in control. Or to think we are even if we're not. We believe we're right so we can feel in control. So we can feel that we know what's going on. And how to deal with it.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Only to a simpleton. To someone that is willing to give it a little more thought, there is a lot more to it.

I agree. Epistemology is a big subject but I still say you cannot make yourself believe something is true that you are convinced is false.

So you have chosen to believe. And now, having made that choice, you are going to fight tooth and nail to defend it. And you will do that by picking and choosing any "evidence" that supports it, while rejecting and dismissing any evidence that does not support it. And all of this, too, will be your choice.

I have not chose to believe anything. No one has.

You keep choosing examples that are not relevant to any of the issues at hand. You can choose to believe ANYTHING that you cannot prove wrong. And even then, your "proof" or lack thereof will also be of your choosing.

I disagree.

The only thing stopping you is your beliefe that you can't do it. And even that just goes to show that it is your choice.

Can you choose to believe the moon is made from cheese?

Then you could logically change your mind at any point for any reason. And still not know that you are right, or wrong. But instead, you BELIEVE that you are right. And to support and protect that belief, you have to reject the possibility that you are wrong. And THAT'S why you think you have no choice. You have actually just rejected any other choice to protect the one you already made. .

Nope. If evidence is provided that contradicts by belief I cannot still believe it. It is impossible. For example, when i was a kid the iranians took hostage Americans. I thought they took them from the US. Once I found out that was not the case it was impossible for me to still believe that.

And yet you believe you are right so certainly that you cannot even imagine changing your mind.

I NEVER said this. Show me where I said this.

Of course you are. You chose to validate the evidence that supported what you already believed, and invalidate any evidence to the contrary. As ALL TRUE BELIEVER DO. It's what defined a 'true believer'.

This is ridiculous. You just ignore everything I said and pop off with this nonsense. I never said anything like this.

Try telling them that. They (you) believe that it's SO true that they cannot possibly believe anything else.

I NEVER said anything like this.

More proof that belief is a choice, don't you think?

Nope. Two people evaluate the same evidence differently and one is convinced and the other one is not.

Yes, with a huge bias toward what we have already determined to be true.

Not necessarily so.

The why maintain an unfounded conviction? Aside from an ego-stroke, what do you get from it?

Because I don't know which ones they are.

What you are discussing is confirmation boas. That's what its called when we choose to accept only the evidence that support what we have already chosen to believe to be true.

Nope, I am discussing if belief is a choice or not.

But they are a choice. And an unnecessary one at that. We don't actually need to believe anything. We could just live life taking the facts and circumstances at face value. Knowing full well that we may be wrong, and that the moment the facts and circumstances change, we will change with them. Belief is just the result of our desire to always be in control. Or to think we are even if we're not. We believe we're right so we can feel in control. So we can feel that we know what's going on. And how to deal with it.

I disagree and have stated why many times. Again, can you choose to believe the moon is made from cheese?

 

[learner Daniel]

Is belief a choice? Why or why not?

Is lack of belief a choice? Why or why not?

Being kicked off



It is invisible ignorance.

There are multiple matches for invisible ignorance, including a term in Catholic theology and a deductive fallacy:
Invincible ignorance

A term in Catholic theology that refers to a state of ignorance that cannot be removed through moral effort. It excuses a person from guilt or culpability for sin because they are unaware of the law or teaching of the church through no fault of their own. For example, a person who has never heard of the Christian faith is considered invincibly ignorant.

Invincible ignorance fallacy
A deductive fallacy where a person refuses to believe an argument and ignores evidence. This fallacy is also known as argument by pigheadedness. The person may dismiss objections by calling them excuses or anecdotal, or make assertions without considering objections.

 

[Willamena]

Only to a simpleton. To someone that is willing to give it a little more thought, there is a lot more to it.

What more is belief? Be specific.

 

[PureX]

PureX said: Only to a simpleton. To someone that is willing to give it a little more thought, there is a lot more to it.

What more is belief? Be specific.

Read the rest of the post that you clipped this from, and then tell me what you don't understand.