“Christianized” mysticism

[InChrist]

Contemplative/Mystic Christianity is making a huge impact in the Christian church today. It is said that Christians need to rediscover the practices of the saints and so-called Christian or Catholic mystics from the past to gain a deeper knowledge and experience of God. The Desert Fathers are often pointed to as examples of those who achieved this deeper connection with God through their lives of solitude and various spiritual practices, including self-affliction. Christians and others are being encouraged to look to them for wisdom. But is this truly the wisdom of God?

What happens when we turn from the revealed word of God in the scriptures and seek other ways and means in an attempt to get closer to God? Does the real Creator God accept such practices? Many of the practices of the Desert Fathers were nothing new, but the same practices and techniques that have long been used by shamans, witchdoctors, medicine men, and other practitioners of magic and occultism to connect with the spirit world. These practices may have been Christianized and sanitized, but they are nonetheless the same techniques which are forbidden by the God of the Bible.

I am not interested in a debate; therefore, this is not in the debate section. What I am interested in is pointing out the dangers of Christians learning from and promoting ideas and practices of those who have departed from the biblical faith. I am also interested to know if there are any other believers in Christ who see this movement today as detrimental to the church and the lives of those who become involved with such practices. Is anyone else concerned about this?



“It should be apparent that mantra meditation or sacred word prayer qualifies as “vain repetition” and clearly fits an accurate description of the point Jesus was making. Yet in spite of this, trusted evangelical Christians have often pronounced that Christian mysticism is different from other forms of mysticism (such as Eastern or occult) because it is focused on Jesus Christ.

This logic may sound credible on the surface, but Christians must ask themselves a very simple and fundamental question: What really makes a practice Christian? The answer is obvious–does the New Testament sanction it? Hasn’t Christ taught us, through His Word, to pray in faith in His name and according to His will? Did He leave something out? Would Jesus hold out on His true followers? Never!

Understanding this truth, God has declared in His Word that He does not leave it up to earnest, yet sinful people, to reinvent their own Christianity. When Christians ignore God’s instructions in following Him they end up learning the way of the heathen. Israel did this countless times. It is just human nature.”

Excerpt:
From the Lighthouse Blog

 

[Me Myself]

Silent contemplation is very good.

Prayer is good and all, but as Jesus said, before you pray. Remember that the Father already knows what you want.

Silent contemplation is a way in which you "listen" instead of "ask" . It is a way in which you built up your faith if you will. Because before you have asked, God already knows what it is you want, so what better than to pay attention and seek in yourself the faith that you are going to ask God? He may have given it to you already, after all, he does not need you to ask so that he knows.

he is all powerful., seek and yoy shall find.

 

[InChrist]

Silent contemplation is very good.

Prayer is good and all, but as Jesus said, before you pray. Remember that the Father already knows what you want.

Silent contemplation is a way in which you "listen" instead of "ask" . It is a way in which you built up your faith if you will. Because before you have asked, God already knows what it is you want, so what better than to pay attention and seek in yourself the faith that you are going to ask God? He may have given it to you already, after all, he does not need you to ask so that he knows.

he is all powerful., seek and yoy shall find.

What exactly do you mean by silent contemplation? And can you explain what you mean when you said this (especially the underlined part): "Because before you have asked, God already knows what it is you want, so what better than to pay attention and seek in yourself the faith that you are going to ask God?

 

[Me Myself]

What exactly do you mean by silent contemplation? And can you explain what you mean when you said this (especially the underlined part): "Because before you have asked, God already knows what it is you want, so what better than to pay attention and seek in yourself the faith that you are going to ask God?

Seek and you shall find.

Of God knows what Ñi need before I tell him, it is possible that when I think I havent got enough: strength, wisdom, love, faith, etc in myself to handle a situation, it is just at I have not looked for it throughly enough.

Before asking God it may be more reasonable to look into myself and see if God has already provided. As Jesus said, God is not interested in loud rituals or artistry or poetry in ghe words and requests. So if I know I need, and I know God cares for such need, why would I think he has not provided yet the solution? Maybe it was my own blindness at fault.

So basically, silent contemplation is to understand that God has already provided and that he is providing all the time.

Meditation has demonstrated effects on people that make them more compassionate and peaceful. So, lets judge by the fruits. If meditation is making you a more compasionate person, a wiser person, a more peaceful person, then it isaking you a better christian. So, it is Christ like to meditate.

If someone is not experiencing this benefits in their meditations, they are most definetely not doing them right.

 

[Shiranui117]

God is in and of Himself a mystery; if one really ponders the saving work of Christ, and how God works in the world, one quickly finds himself unable to express with words God's majesty, power, light, love and presence.

There is plenty of evidence and support for the idea of "meditating" in the Bible:

BibleGateway - Quick search: meditate

One of the most pertinent Scriptural verses on this subject comes from Psalm 46:10--"Be still, and know that I am God".

Mysticism is not something unique to the Dharmic religions--as long as we acknowledge that God is incomprehensible, and there are a great many mysterious things in our Faith.

BibleGateway.com - Keyword Search: mystery

In contrast to pagan "mystery cults," this is what the word "mystery" means in the Christian context.

From Metropolitan Kallistos Ware's book The Orthodox Way:
"So, in the Christian context, we do not mean by a 'mystery' merely that which is baffling or mysterious, an enigma or insoluble problem. A mystery is, on the contrary, something that is revealed for our understanding, but which we never understand exhaustively because it leads into the depth of the darkness of God. The eyes are closed--but they are also opened."

 

[SageTree]

I feel these practices are rich and valuable.
But if people don't prefer them, I respect that.

We each find and experience God in our unique way.

Religions didn't develop in a vacuum.
There are archetypal images and practices in all cultures.

Stillness and meditation are just examples.

I mean, Jesus in bodily form didn't go to a Christian Church or anything.
So when does the innovation and borrowing emerge?

Borrowing or Co-inventing didn't start with the Christian Desert Fathers and Mothers.
And I find it hard to dismiss them on the grounds of so-called 'pagan etc....' practices.

 

[Open_Minded]

What happens when we turn from the revealed word of God in the scriptures and seek other ways and means in an attempt to get closer to God? Does the real Creator God accept such practices? Many of the practices of the Desert Fathers were nothing new, but the same practices and techniques that have long been used by shamans, witchdoctors, medicine men, and other practitioners of magic and occultism to connect with the spirit world. These practices may have been Christianized and sanitized, but they are nonetheless the same techniques which are forbidden by the God of the Bible.

I am not interested in a debate; therefore, this is not in the debate section. What I am interested in is pointing out the dangers of Christians learning from and promoting ideas and practices of those who have departed from the biblical faith

I've been a Christian Contemplative for over 30 years. To be honest - your post bothers me on many levels:

1. Who exactly determines the TRUE interpretation of the "revealed word of God"?
2. You ask: Does the real Creator God accept such practices? So out of the 1000s of sects of Christianity which properly reflects this "real" God?
3. You say - These practices may have been Christianized and sanitized, but they are nonetheless the same techniques which are forbidden by the God of the Bible. - Again - you know what is "forbidden by the God of the Bible" ... again which interpretation of the Bible is correct? Prove it
4. You say you don't want a debate, but then you state: What I am interested in is pointing out the dangers of Christians learning from and promoting ideas and practices of those who have departed from the biblical faith.
   

Fine - I won't debate you. But I will point out that there are 1000s of sects of Christianity. There is a long sordid history of Christians killing each other and persecuting each other over TRUE Christianity. And that is just within the Christian tradition - it does not even speak to all the violence Christians have visited upon people of other faiths in the name of the "real" God.

Whether you believe it (or not) you do not have any more insight into the "real" God than any other human on the face of this planet (or in the entire history of humanity for that matter).

Your post speaks volumes about the "god" you worship - and what it says is sad (to say the least).

 

[Gaura Priya]

We do not need to go outside to find that there are Christian ways to go inward and seek God.

Devotions such as hesychasm, the Rosary, Lectio Divina, the Angelus, prayers written by the Saints, the Bible, the Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament, the Daily Office, reading Christian literature, listening or chanting Scripural hymns or songs, etc. are all tools to help us guide our lives liturgically, and fill us with constant meditations spiritually. The Word of God is not limited to the Bible; rather, the Word of God upon whom we meditate is Jesus Christ Himself!

While meditative practices of other religions try to empty the mind, or focus on differing gods, Christian meditation includes what is written above. It is to fill the mind with love for Christ, and evocative of one of my favourite books of all time, Thomas A. Kempis' "Imitation of Christ".

Some Aspects Of Christian Meditation may be of usefulness. Gpd bless!

 

[RGA1459]

There is, for lack of a better way of putting it, a "step by step" process to finding connection to the divine spirit. It is manifest in many forms, but remains the same in spirit. That spirit is a spirit of love and wisdom (loaded words, I know), and therefore, I see nothing wrong with thinking outside the "box" of Christian fundamentalism, so long as it feels right. There is a reason why we have emotions, and that reason is because our emotions are a gift from a divine source which lead us to know whether what we are doing is right or wrong. Although the Bible doesn't particularly say anything about meditation (as far as I know) as a way to knowing the loving spirit of Christ, if you look within yourself and become in tune with your emotional state whenever you are meditating, and it feels right, then it surely must be right. After all, God gave us mind, and Christ gave us the spirit of true knowledge through love and wisdom, so if you use your mind to come to any conclusion that is in the spirit of love and wisdom, you have found a way of knowing Christ. If some people truly and whole-heartedly come to a mental state that is purely loving, even if it were through suffering, then it must be holy. Why would God allow love to come from hate, or wisdom from ignorance? There is the possibility of having the illusion of love and wisdom, but this is the error of a fool. To look within yourself and be totally honest in how you feel about something is a fool-proof way of knowing whether something is right or wrong. Or so it would seem. As far as I'm concerned, New Age practices (I assume this is what you're talking about when you say "Christian mysticism") are nothing to fear so long as they lead others to love and understanding. Be happy for those who use unorthodox methods as a way of knowing Christ's spirit. If it works, it works. Who are we to judge? If anything, it can't hurt the church. It can only lead those who otherwise wouldn't know Christ to know the spirit. You could use "spirit" or "emotion" interchangeably, if the concept of "spirits" is something taboo to someone reading this. I'm sure it will read the same way regardless.

 

[Shiranui117]

As far as I'm concerned, New Age practices (I assume this is what you're talking about when you say "Christian mysticism") are nothing to fear so long as they lead others to love and understanding.

Actually, we are not speaking of New Age practices. We're speaking of an authentic mysticism that is native to and has its origins in Christianity, almost entirely forgotten in the Protestant world, and struggling to survive in Catholicism, but thriving in Eastern Orthodox Christianity and Oriental Orthodox Christianity.

We're speaking of things like Hesychasm; the teachings of the Philokalia; the spirituality of various Catholic monastic/mendicant orders such as Benedictine, Franciscan, Jesuit and Carmelite; devotional practices such as praying the Rosary, Chaplet of Divine Mercy; or the Jesus Prayer (here's another source for the Jesus Prayer too); or just any spiritual activity that places more emphasis on the mysterious side of Christianity.

 

[RGA1459]

I do not want to over-generalize. To be honest, I hardly know anything about most of the stuff that you mentioned, but decided to give my perspective regardless. I guess you know what they say about when you assume, right? Anyway, I hope you found my post insightful in some way. All I was saying is that its never a bad thing when one pursues enlightenment through the spirit of Christ, no matter the path they choose. Whether it be New Age or not is merely a technicality.

 

[Shiranui117]

I do not want to over-generalize. To be honest, I hardly know anything about most of the stuff that you mentioned, but decided to give my perspective regardless.

I appreciate your perspective. Also note that I included links to each of the things I mentioned (see the underlined text? That's actually a URL that'll give you some information of the thing mentioned)

I guess you know what they say about when you assume, right? Anyway, I hope you found my post insightful in some way. All I was saying is that its never a bad thing when one pursues enlightenment through the spirit of Christ, no matter the path they choose. Whether it be New Age or not is merely a technicality.

I agree that whatever brings us closer to Christ is a good thing.

Speaking of which, may He grant you the grace to draw closer to Him!

Peace and God bless!
-Shiranui

 

[Open_Minded]

Actually, we are not speaking of New Age practices. We're speaking of an authentic mysticism that is native to and has its origins in Christianity, almost entirely forgotten in the Protestant world, and struggling to survive in Catholicism, but thriving in Eastern Orthodox Christianity and Oriental Orthodox Christianity.

We're speaking of things like Hesychasm; the teachings of the Philokalia; the spirituality of various Catholic monastic/mendicant orders such as Benedictine, Franciscan, Jesuit and Carmelite; devotional practices such as praying the Rosary, Chaplet of Divine Mercy; or the Jesus Prayer (here's another source for the Jesus Prayer too); or just any spiritual activity that places more emphasis on the mysterious side of Christianity.

Don't forget The Cloud of Unknowing, as an early guide to Christian Meditation. For those interested in more recent guidance for the Christian Contemplative - they may want to check out the work of Father Thomas Keating and the Centering Prayer movement.

 

[Shiranui117]

Don't forget The Cloud of Unknowing, as an early guide to Christian Meditation. For those interested in more recent guidance for the Christian Contemplative - they may want to check out the work of Father Thomas Keating and the Centering Prayer movement.

If we get into classic works of Christian mysticism, our list of things involving Christian mysticism will go on for entirely too long!

 

[Open_Minded]

If we get into classic works of Christian mysticism, our list of things involving Christian mysticism will go on for entirely too long!

OH ... I agree completely. I just thought I'd take the opportunity to add resources for those interested.

Another wonderful resource for any Christian Contemplative would be: The Mystic Heart: Discovering a Universal Spirituality in the World's Religions By Wayne Teasdale

Wayne comes from the Catholic Contemplative Tradition. The Mystic Heart is on my personal "best reads" list.

Wayne coined the term Interspirituality. I think this forum is an example of Interspirituality in practice. Because things like the internet and travel make it possible for humans of different spiritual backgrounds to connect and get to know each other as human beings, Wayne proposes that the human race is entering a new age of Interspirituality. I agree with him and his stance that this new age is necessary for the salvation of both the earth and the human race.

 

[InChrist]

OH ...

Wayne coined the term Interspirituality. I think this forum is an example of Interspirituality in practice. Because things like the internet and travel make it possible for humans of different spiritual backgrounds to connect and get to know each other as human beings, Wayne proposes that the human race is entering a new age of Interspirituality. I agree with him and his stance that this new age is necessary for the salvation of both the earth and the human race.

So would you say that you have abandoned the teachings of the Bible, specifically that: everyone is a sinner in need of a Savior, Jesus Christ alone is the Savior, the sins of the world were paid for by Christ's shed blood on the cross, and salvation and reconciliation with God cannot be achieved or realized by one's own effort because it is a gift given apart by His grace...in favor of interspirituality?

 

[Open_Minded]

So would you say that you have abandoned the teachings of the Bible, specifically that: everyone is a sinner in need of a Savior, Jesus Christ alone is the Savior, the sins of the world were paid for by Christ's shed blood on the cross, and salvation and reconciliation with God cannot be achieved or realized by one's own effort because it is a gift given apart by His grace...in favor of interspirituality?

InChrist:

As I said earlier - there are 1000s of sects of Christianity. You have no way of "proving" that your interpretation of the Bible is the "TRUE" interpretation. To even ask the question you asked above is to miss the larger point ... the teachings of the Bible as you perceive them are not the teachings of the Bible - they are your perceived teachings. There is a difference.

 

[InChrist]

InChrist:

As I said earlier - there are 1000s of sects of Christianity. You have no way of "proving" that your interpretation of the Bible is the "TRUE" interpretation. To even ask the question you asked above is to miss the larger point ... the teachings of the Bible as you perceive them are not the teachings of the Bible - they are your perceived teachings. There is a difference.

That there are many and various sects of Christianity is irrelevant, because the Bible stands on it's own. When one reads it in a plain and straightforward manner without applying their own perceptions, the scriptures are clear enough about the message it is expressing.

Would you mind answering this question: Is Jesus Christ alone your Savior who paid for your sins on the cross through whom you have forgiveness and eternal life?

 

[Open_Minded]

That there are many and various sects of Christianity is irrelevant, because the Bible stands on it's own. When one reads it in a plain and straightforward manner without applying their own perceptions, the scriptures are clear enough about the message it is expressing.

If that statement were true then Christian history would not be riddled with violence in the name of Christ. It would all be self-explanitory and we would all agree 100% of the time, just the same way that when we look at sun in the sky we all see it - we may call it different names - but we all see it - we all acknowledge its existence - we all know its importance in making our crops and flowers grow. We all accept its existence.

The sun stands on its own - it needs no explanation to the farmer wondering if the seeds he planted will grow. Humans do not go to war or hurt other humans over the definition of the one true earth's sun - we all know its the only sun the earth will ever get.

Humans hurt each other all the time over the "one TRUE" interpretation of the Bible, over the "one TRUE" understanding of God.

That reality alone nullifies what you said above about the Bible standing on its own.

Would you mind answering this question: Is Jesus Christ alone your Savior who paid for your sins on the cross through whom you have forgiveness and eternal life?

Again - to answer your question is to descend into a debate about what is the "TRUE" understanding of Jesus Christ, the "TRUE" understanding of Savior, the "TRUE" understanding of sin, the "TRUE" understanding of the Bible and God itself. And I long ago gave up the egos need to prove myself "right" in those areas. It's the cause of too much pain, too many wars and too much violence in human history to go there.

 

[SageTree]

I do not want to over-generalize. To be honest, I hardly know anything about most of the stuff that you mentioned, but decided to give my perspective regardless. I guess you know what they say about when you assume, right? Anyway, I hope you found my post insightful in some way. All I was saying is that its never a bad thing when one pursues enlightenment through the spirit of Christ, no matter the path they choose. Whether it be New Age or not is merely a technicality.

I've appreciate the comments by you, in this thread.
Truly open to the Mystery, indeed.


:namaste