Ásatrú for beginners.

[Straw Dog]

I know how you feel. I've been flip-flopping for a few years. Logically, I can't believe in Christianity or any of the Abrahamic religions anymore, knowing what I know. So it was mostly an emotional thing as of late.

Well, logic has its limitations. Spirituality isn't necessarily irrational, just non-rational. It's more like a form of art, music, poetry, or the humanities rather than a logic and science. Abrahamic faiths tend to present themselves as science rather than as a culturally meaningful art of living. Myth is a creative way for us to connect with our origins, ancestry, culture, and nature on a more personal level that would otherwise be inaccessible.

I think this is because of the differences in Hellenic and Northern European societies. There was more of a social hierarchy in the Hellenic world and the North tended to more democratic and communitarian, with more room for individuality. This is the impression I get, at least. I think this is one of the biggest differences between tribal religions like those of the Northern peoples and the more organized religions that developed in the Middle East and around the Mediterranean. Tribal religions tend to be more outdoorsy and shamanistic.

Also, I feel more of a connection to the lands of the North and have a lot of ancestry from Northern Europe.

Nice comparison.

My bloodline also connects to the Northern tribes.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Well, logic has its limitations. Spirituality isn't necessarily irrational, just non-rational. It's more like a form of art, music, poetry, or the humanities rather than a logic and science. Abrahamic faiths tend to present themselves as science rather than as a culturally meaningful art of living. Myth is a creative way for us to connect with our origins, ancestry, culture, and nature on a more personal level that would otherwise be inaccessible.

That's true but something has to logically make sense to me to accept it. Also, the history and the claims of the Abrahamic religions just don't hold up to scrutiny, but that's another topic.

Nice comparison.

My bloodline also connects to the Northern tribes.

Thanks. It's more surprising when someone in the West doesn't have Northern European ancestry.

 

[Straw Dog]

That's true but something has to logically make sense to me to accept it. Also, the history and the claims of the Abrahamic religions just don't hold up to scrutiny, but that's another topic.

I do believe the Norse myths are more internally coherent than the Abrahamic variety and better reflect the type of Universe I experience. I feel like Odin is real, for example. So, in many ways, it does make a certain kind of rational sense on a personal level. It's just not meant to be primarily approached through the faculty of reason. It is similar to the manner that an artist or musician relies more heavily on other faculties.

Thanks. It's more surprising when someone in the West doesn't have Northern European ancestry.

Yeah, nothing special. There are a lot of us generic white dudes walking around.

Many of us don't have a strong sense of cultural identity anymore and I think it messes with our heads.

 

[Jainarayan]

I do believe the Norse myths are more internally coherent than the Abrahamic variety and better reflect the type of Universe I experience. I feel like Odin is real, for example.

If you think about it, most Indo-European deities - there are exceptions, I'm sure - are pretty much just grander versions of us. They have the same foibles, desires, loves, enemies, friends, etc. as we do. Deities such as Thor, Hanuman, Ganesha, Saraswati, Krishna, Guan yu and Xuan wu (Taoist gods) also feel very real. They seem approachable.

Yeah, nothing special. There are a lot of us generic white dudes walking around.

Many of us don't have a strong sense of cultural identity anymore and I think it messes with our heads.

My family is Italian-American, but I have very strong reason to believe we are of northern European, Germanic heritage. I've never felt a kinship with anything Roman or Mediterranean, but I do with Germanic. Maybe some collective memory encoded in our genes? Seems far-fetched, but who knows?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I do believe the Norse myths are more internally coherent than the Abrahamic variety and better reflect the type of Universe I experience. I feel like Odin is real, for example. So, in many ways, it does make a certain kind of rational sense on a personal level. It's just not meant to be primarily approached through the faculty of reason. It is similar to the manner that an artist or musician relies more heavily on other faculties.

Well, of course. Religion/spirituality is more akin to art but I think it's important that beliefs also make sense, imo.

Yeah, nothing special. There are a lot of us generic white dudes walking around.

Many of us don't have a strong sense of cultural identity anymore and I think it messes with our heads.

See, I think that's part of the problem - thinking that European heritage is "generic" and "nothing special". I think that's sad, and a I'm brown guy. I think everyone's heritage is wonderful and should be explored and celebrated. The peoples of the North are amazing and strong people. European descended people need to discover the beauty of their ancestry, imo.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

My family is Italian-American, but I have very strong reason to believe we are of northern European, Germanic heritage. I've never felt a kinship with anything Roman or Mediterranean, but I do with Germanic. Maybe some collective memory encoded in our genes? Seems far-fetched, but who knows?

Maybe, or past lives.

 

[Jainarayan]

Very possibly! There's got to be a reason I'm an Indophile too. I've never been to India but I've always been fascinated by and fond of anything Indian. I always said it is from a past life.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Very possibly! There's got to be a reason I'm an Indophile too. I've never been to India but I've always been fascinated by and fond of anything Indian. I always said it is from a past life.

Past lives are probably the reason I'm so drawn towards Hellenic, Roman and Aztec stuff. None of my ancestry comes from those places.

 

[Straw Dog]

Well, of course. Religion/spirituality is more akin to art but I think it's important that beliefs also make sense, imo.

See, I think that's part of the problem - thinking that European heritage is "generic" and "nothing special". I think that's sad, and a I'm brown guy. I think everyone's heritage is wonderful and should be explored and celebrated. The peoples of the North are amazing and strong people. European descended people need to discover the beauty of their ancestry, imo.

Yes, we're the ones adopting that view. "Generic white guy" is a bad joke anyway. American style hyper-individualism has left many of us feeling isolated and disconnected from our cultural heritage. Re-discovering and celebrating it may help us to heal our fragmented identities.

 

[Straw Dog]

My family is Italian-American, but I have very strong reason to believe we are of northern European, Germanic heritage. I've never felt a kinship with anything Roman or Mediterranean, but I do with Germanic. Maybe some collective memory encoded in our genes? Seems far-fetched, but who knows?

IDK. It might be encoded more in the cultural consciousness rather than genetic memory. Either way, I feel a sense of kinship that's not really consciously chosen. It's just there.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes, we're the ones adopting that view. "Generic white guy" is a bad joke anyway. American style hyper-individualism has left many of us feeling isolated and disconnected from our cultural heritage. Re-discovering and celebrating it may help us to heal our fragmented identities.

I just hope this turn towards the ancestors and indigenous tradition grows healthily among all peoples. It's a great bulwark against the nihilistic consumerism that threatens to turn us all into soulless drones.

 

[Jainarayan]

...Either way, I feel a sense of kinship that's not really consciously chosen. It's just there.

Exactly, I can't explain it. I wonder how common this feeling is. This may seem to be veering off the o.p., but I don't think so. Cultural identity and affinity is sometimes a very big part of the belief systems we hold.

 

[Riverwolf]

My family is Italian-American, but I have very strong reason to believe we are of northern European, Germanic heritage. I've never felt a kinship with anything Roman or Mediterranean, but I do with Germanic.

It's because, from what I've seen, native culture and language plays a much larger part in shaping our cultural identity than ethnic ancestry. US culture is Anglic in heritage. The stories and songs we were raised on are almost entirely English, French, and Germanic.

I'm mostly of Northern European descent (Anglo-Irish, mostly), but my father identifies most strongly with his Greek ancestry. But I... don't.

 

[Straw Dog]

I just hope this turn towards the ancestors and indigenous tradition grows healthily among all peoples. It's a great bulwark against the nihilistic consumerism that threatens to turn us all into soulless drones.

It could also have negative side effects if people identify with their traditions in a more militant-racist manner. Being more passionate about culture isn't always more positive. I'll probably avoid the genetic stance for this very reason. There's too much room for abuse.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It could also have negative side effects if people identify with their traditions in a more militant-racist manner. Being more passionate about culture isn't always more positive. I'll probably avoid the genetic stance for this very reason. There's too much room for abuse.

Well, yeah. Those people are morons who don't even understand the cultures they dare to speak in the name of. That crap is the ugly offspring of the 19th century and has nothing to do with how indigenous Europeans actually were.

 

[Straw Dog]

Well, yeah. Those people are morons who don't even understand the cultures they dare to speak in the name of. That crap is the ugly offspring of the 19th century and has nothing to do with how indigenous Europeans actually were.

I'm sure indigenous Europeans struggled with racial and gender issues just like we do nowadays, but the militant-racial view is a misguided modern development. I don't want to derail the thread, but this is an issue in the Heathen community. I'll just share the following quote by one of the greatest authors of all time about one of the worst persons in history.

"I have a burning private grudge against that ruddy little ignoramus Adolf Hitler..." "...for ruining, perverting, misapplying, and making forever accursed that noble northern spirit and supreme contribution to Europe, which I have ever loved, and tried to present in its true light." -J. R. R. Tolkien (1941)

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm sure indigenous Europeans struggled with racial and gender issues just like we do nowadays, but the militant-racial view is a misguided modern development. I don't want to derail the thread, but this is an issue in the Heathen community. I'll just share the following quote by one of the greatest authors of all time about one of the worst persons in history.

"I have a burning private grudge against that ruddy little ignoramus Adolf Hitler..." "...for ruining, perverting, misapplying, and making forever accursed that noble northern spirit and supreme contribution to Europe, which I have ever loved, and tried to present in its true light." -J. R. R. Tolkien (1941)

I know tons about this subject. There was no such thing as a concept of "race" until about the 18th or 19th centuries. The Germanic peoples weren't "racist". Such a concept would've been unknown to them. It's an anachronism to ascribe such a thing to them or any other ancient people.

 

[Riverwolf]

It could also have negative side effects if people identify with their traditions in a more militant-racist manner. Being more passionate about culture isn't always more positive. I'll probably avoid the genetic stance for this very reason. There's too much room for abuse.

Even from those who didn't mean to.

Once we start identifying with our "Tribe" in that regard, it becomes much, much easier to demonize an ancestral enemy. I saw that in myself, normally pluralist and somewhat universalist, when I started practicing Asatru and studying the history of pre-Christian Europe. I started demonizing all of Rome.

I caught this quickly, however, so I could limit my "ancestral enemy" just to Caesar, his militant descendents, and their Legions, instead of all Rome in general. Even then, I still have respect for them.

But I have no intention of passing on that concept of "ancestral enemy" to my children. If I have any say in the matter, it dies with me. Let warts-and-all Rome remain admirable, and let no animosity exist between me, my family, and modern Italians for the sins of people who have been dead for 2000 years.

 

[Straw Dog]

I see. So 'race' makes even less sense in this context then. I can understand wanting to have an ethnic identity, but it's probably safer to assume that it's operating on a cultural rather than genetic level.

 

[Riverwolf]

I know tons about this subject. There was no such thing as a concept of "race" until about the 18th or 19th centuries. The Germanic peoples weren't "racist". Such a concept would've been unknown to them. It's an anachronism to ascribe such a thing to them or any other ancient people.

I don't care that Heimdall is described as "whitest of the Gods". Idris Elba was absolutely PERFECT as the guardian of Asgard's gates. :yes: