“The Son is equal to his Father”

[Dimi95]

If you imply that they didn't write the greatest miracle ever, because there were so many miracles to write, then it is an extremely poor excuse. When you want to impress and convert people to Christianity like John says, you write the most impressive miracles and if you haven't got space you leave out "miracles" of fever therapy...

Read my signature...

Sry , What is the greatest miracle ever ?

 

[Ajax]

Your assumption is on the fact that all Gospels must be neccessary identical

Not identical, just not to have contradictions and to include the major miracles which are necessary for the people to believe as John's gospel says.

What should we say about Mark 5 and the daughter of Jarius?
Because it is not in other Gospels it is not valid?

You are wrong. Learn your Bible. This story is in all three synoptic gospels which somehow gives far more credibility to this miracle than Lazarus'.
(Mark 5:21–43, Matthew 9:18–26 and Luke 8:40–56)

What is there to be noted is the ressurection of Jesus Christ which all of the Gospels testify to.That is the greatest miracle to be ever considered , because it was prophesied by Jesus himself.

Are you playing with words now? OK, the 2nd greatest miracle or the greatest miracle to people, although strictly speaking, Lazarus was dead for one more day and Jesus didn't play fair as he was "God"..

It seems to me that you don't want to look it as whole , and that is why you are taking it piece by piece.

What to look as a whole? 66 different books which are written from many different authors in a span of 700 years and include from ridiculous claims to theology?

Nobody can defend the Lazarus resurrection..Don't try in vain..

I repeat corrected...
How is it possible than none of the synoptic gospels -not even Matthew's, who the Church claim he was a disciple- did not write of Jesus greater miracle to others? That he resurrected his personal friend Lazarus who had been dead for four days. Was Matthew absent from the classroom that day? And Peter who supposedly checked Mark's gospel didn't he remember this greatest miracle of Jesus to people?

 

[Ajax]

Where is the word Babylon, other than the Whore of Babylon written in the Revelations.....

315 Bible results for “Babylon"..
BibleGateway - Keyword Search: babylon

Thank you for your effort in writing such a long and detailed message.

 

[Dimi95]

Not identical, just not to have contradictions and to include the major miracles which are necessary for the people to believe as John's gospel says.

Who makes the rules , you or the author?
You are making the standard , so again one point plus for 'Open Mind'

You are wrong. Learn your Bible. This story is in all three synoptic gospels which somehow gives far more credibility to this miracle than Lazarus'.
(Mark 5:21–43, Matthew 9:18–26 and Luke 8:40–56.

It was not adressed , but if you or anyone saw it like that , i apologize.
I rephrase the statement : If one Gospel does not have data from other Gospel it does not make it neccessary wrong.
I mean , how would i speak against Bart if i did not know that? That is one of his arguments where he is consistenly inconsistent - daughter of Jarius.

Are you playing with words now? OK, the 2nd greatest miracle or the greatest miracle to people, although strictly speaking, Lazarus was dead for one more day and Jesus didn't play fair as he was "God"..

Yes , Jesus did not play fair , he did not resist to be crucified.

What to look as a whole? 66 different books which are written from many different authors in a span of 700 years and include from ridiculous claims to theology?

And all of that lays on one particular event - the ressurection of Christ.

I mentioned earlier evidence , which you somehow avoid to discuss , why?

Nobody can defend the Lazarus resurrection..Don't try in vain..

It is also possible that Matthew, Mark and Luke were writing their gospels while Lazarus was still alive, and mentioning his name in their books would have increased the danger to his life.John wrote his gospel much later than the other, and by the time he completed it Lazarus was already dead.
Also the synoptic evangelists write more about Jesus' ministry in Galilee, John is more focused on the events in Jerusalem.

There are many objections and you reject them all , why?

I repeat corrected...
How is it possible than none of the synoptic gospels -not even Matthew's, who the Church claim he was a disciple- did not write of Jesus greater miracle to others? That he resurrected his personal friend Lazarus who had been dead for four days. Was Matthew absent from the classroom that day? And Peter who supposedly checked Mark's gospel didn't he remember this greatest miracle of Jesus to people?

So , just because they don't fit into your standards , they are not true?

What is odd is to even think that some group of people would have the audacity to make such plans.Plans on how people might be saved..

 

[Hockeycowboy]

If they are violent outbursts, then we are talking about violence as a sin. Jesus was violent also when he used his whip..

Is that what the downtrodden Jews were thinking? Right after Jesus threw the sellers out, the account reveals they approached him to receive some comfort.
They understood that His action was controlled; and it wasn’t directed toward them; rather, toward those who were making unjust profits. His was a righteous indignation.

Do you not feel anger toward criminals getting away with their activity? (I think we all do.)
He just did something about it, since no one else did.

He faced no repercussions afterward.

 

[Ajax]

Who makes the rules , you or the author?
You are making the standard , so again one point plus for 'Open Mind'

You asked me for my assumption, not the author's... The author is judged by what he has written.

Yes , Jesus did not play fair , he did not resist to be crucified.

I didn't say that Jesus did not resist, neither that he was not crucified. In fact I said earlier that he did resist which is strange for a God who wanted to fulfill his plan.
But he could raise himself.

It is also possible that Matthew, Mark and Luke were writing their gospels while Lazarus was still alive, and mentioning his name in their books would have increased the danger to his life.John wrote his gospel much later than the other, and by the time he completed it Lazarus was already dead.
Also the synoptic evangelists write more about Jesus' ministry in Galilee, John is more focused on the events in Jerusalem.

There are many objections and you reject them all , why?

You are really becoming tiresome trying to find different excuses all the time. Remember, two things are inseparable from lying (not you), too many promises and too many excuses. Yes, there may be a possibility that he have turned into a frog, or lifted to ..heavens. But for your bad luck ...according to Eastern Orthodox Church tradition in which you believe, sometime after the Resurrection of Christ, Lazarus was forced to flee Judea because of rumoured plots on his life and came to Cyprus. There he was appointed by Barnabas and Paul the Apostle as the first bishop of Kition . He lived there for thirty more years, and on his death was buried there for the second and last time. Lazarus of Bethany - Wikipedia
So according to the Church he died on about 63-64 AD, many years before any gospel was written.

There is none serious objection from your part on this subject, worth considering. Just excuses, usually completely misplaced.

So , just because they don't fit into your standards , they are not true?

They don't fit into logic, not into my standards. If you can not debunk something, don't reply. Nobody forced you.

Have a good day and night.

 

[Ajax]

Is that what the downtrodden Jews were thinking? Right after Jesus threw the sellers out, the account reveals they approached him to receive some comfort.
They understood that His action was controlled; and it wasn’t directed toward them; rather, toward those who were making unjust profits. His was a righteous indignation.

Do you not feel anger toward criminals getting away with their activity? (I think we all do.)
He just did something about it, since no one else did.

He faced no repercussions afterward.

That was an answer to somebody who insisted that anger is a sin. I should have written that. .Jesus could also be considered violent when he used his whip.. Certainly so in our times..

 

[Dimi95]

You asked me for my assumption, not the author's... The author is judged be what he has written.

I didn't say that Jesus was not crucified. But he could raise himself.

You are really becoming tiresome trying to find different excuses all the time. Remember, two things are inseparable from lying (not you), too many promises and too many excuses. Yes, there may be a possibility that he have turned into a frog, or lifted to ..heavens. But for your bad luck ...according to Eastern Orthodox Church tradition in which you believe, sometime after the Resurrection of Christ, Lazarus was forced to flee Judea because of rumoured plots on his life and came to Cyprus. There he was appointed by Barnabas and Paul the Apostle as the first bishop of Kition . He lived there for thirty more years, and on his death was buried there for the second and last time. Lazarus of Bethany - Wikipedia
So according to the Church he died on about 63-64 AD, many years before any gospel was written.

There is none serious objection from your part on this subject, worth considering.

They don't fit into logic, not into my standards. If you can not debunk something, don't reply. Nobody forced you.

Have a good day and night.

You are not well informed since you use wiki
I am outside now , i will answer this later and we will see what stands and what not.

 

[Ajax]

You are not well informed since you use wiki
I am outside now , i will answer this later and we will see what stands and what not.

You don't have to.... I'm a little tired with all your excuses.... Perhaps you go intentionally into fallacies to see people's answers for your book.

 

[Kenny]

Oh Kenny, I'm sorry but it's getting really boring if I have to discuss with someone who doesn't accept logic and invents torment of Jesus in hell as well as the damages that sins caused to Jesus body or soul.
I'm sorry mate, perhaps we can discuss something lighter another time
Have a lovely time..

No need to be sorry!

Whether He did go to Hell or didn’t… He still died for our sins and resurrected to restore our relationship with God. I don’t see where you have to believe He went to Hell for salvation.

Good day, mate.

 

[ppp]

this is really starting to sound like “Any excuse is a good excuse because I don’t want to believe”.

And yet the world is full of people.who did want to believe yet find your claims unbelievable. Such statements as yours above are just an attempt to pretend otherwise.

 

[Kenny]

And yet the world is full of people.who did want to believe yet find your claims unbelievable. Such statements as yours above are just an attempt to pretend otherwise.

I would say that there are quite a few people who think it is unbelievable or not interested but use their reasonings without having to resort to overused statements. It is the overused statements that I am referring to.

For an example:

I was sharing Jesus with someone when he responded, “For me to want Jesus, I would have to have a need for Jesus. I am happy just the way I am and have no need for Jesus”. Reasonable, concise, no overused clichés. I said, “You are absolutely right” - and moved on.

I appreciated his honesty without resorting to overused statements.

 

[ppp]

I would say that there are quite a few people who think it is unbelievable or not interested but use their reasonings without having to resort to overused statements. It is the overused statements that I am referring to.

What you call over used statements tend to be common experiences. I was a believer. I became serious about my beliefs. And discovered that I was unjustified in accepting those beliefs or of accepting the claims of others who believed.

It's a cliche and it's true.

 

[Kenny]

What you call over used statements tend to be common experiences. I was a believer. I became serious about my beliefs. And discovered that I was unjustified in accepting those beliefs or of accepting the claims of others who believed.

It's a cliche and it's true.

This isn’t a cliche. That is rational thinking. IMV

 

[ppp]

This isn’t a cliche. That is rational thinking. IMV

That is an unexpected response. I like the unexpected. Please elaborate.

 

[Kenny]

What you call over used statements tend to be common experiences. I was a believer. I became serious about my beliefs. And discovered that I was unjustified in accepting those beliefs or of accepting the claims of others who believed.

That is an unexpected response. I like the unexpected. Please elaborate.

1) It speaks of someone who, in his own thinking and reasoning, came to a personal conclusion. (I can respect that)
2) You looked at other people’s viewpoints and beliefs and seriously looked at it to come to you decision.
3) You didn’t come out and started comparing my reasoning to a spaghetti monster or some other overused statements. (I thank you for that)

 

[ppp]

1) It speaks of someone who, in his own thinking and reasoning, came to a personal conclusion. (I can respect that)
2) You looked at other people’s viewpoints and beliefs and seriously looked at it to come to you decision.
3) You didn’t come out and started comparing my reasoning to a spaghetti monster or some other overused statements. (I thank you for that)

My position if hardly unique. Or even uncommon. Most of the atheists on this board hold similar positions.

 

[Kenny]

My position if hardly unique. Or even uncommon. Most of the atheists on this board hold similar positions.

But many use cliches … at least in my experience.

That being said… each person has the right to come to their conclusions and live their lives according to their dictates. I don’t think I have ever “attacked” an atheist for not believing there is a God.

 

[ppp]

But many use cliches … at least in my experience.

I don't know what that means.

That being said… each person has the right to come to their conclusions and live their lives according to their dictates. I don’t think I have ever “attacked” an atheist for not believing there is a God.

Okay. I am not sure why this is relevant. As far as I can tell, what people have the right to think is not in question.

 

[Kenny]

I don't know what that means.

Example: Comparing my faith with faith in the spaghetti monster or a unicorn… don’t now how many times that has been referenced.

Okay. I am not sure why this is relevant. As far as I can tell, what people have the right to think is not in question.

OK