‘Free will’ is not an excuse for God allowing atrocities.

[Sgt. Pepper]

That makes no sense. To me being a Christian was hell. But I left that all behind and life got easier and I have no regrets. I've not looked back once or second guessed myself. I don't want anything to do with Jehovah.

I share your sentiment, Shadow Wolf. It was a difficult struggle for me to walk away from my Christian faith, though. I struggled with it because I had spent thirty-one years of my life as a Christian. It was a painful experience for me, but I don't regret my decision to forsake my faith. Honestly, I feel more at peace now than I ever felt during all the years I was a devout Christian.

 

[Ashoka]

They have the choice to stay away.
Let me guess, you probably believe that Hitler, Jeffrey Dahmer and Son of Sam were probably good people deep down?

We've talked about this before; everyone has the capacity for good and yes, that includes Hitler. In their ignorance, they did wrong and hurt themselves and others. As the soul evolves through different lives, however, we eventually learn to do better and to do good. They will pay for their deeds according to their karma. This is what I believe.

 

[Ashoka]

No need to question any of that, try and find such implementations out of Jesus' mouth.
Doesn't take a clever person to recognize that much.

It's easy to say "they weren't real Christians" because it dodges responsibility.

 

[DNB]

You said...""Those who defy their Creator, and/or insult Him by paying allegiance to worthless idols, deserves to die, immediately!"

That is not final judgement and I ask again, where does it say that in the bible. Especially the part about they should "die immediately"

Are you joking?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Ok. Where at in the bible?

Deuteronomy 13.

 

[We Never Know]

Are you joking?

Show me where in the bible where it says...
"Those who defy their Creator, and/or insult Him by paying allegiance to worthless idols, deserves to die, immediately!"

Especially the part about they "deserve to die immediately"

Either you can or can't.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Often times the punishment is too much and way too harsh for the crime. Like an eternity of damnation for a short life of sin.

You can't say that.
The whole point about Divine justice is that it is COMPLETELY fair. It can be none other.
Any scenario you come up with that shows Divine justice is unfair has got to be flawed.

No one will remain in hell for eternity unless they ruin their own souls. The classic case in point being of a person that continually refuses to repent, full stop.
Repentance does not affect an infinite G-d. G-d is not in need of our repentance. It is ourselves who are in need.

 

[DNB]

It is the same for me. I do not love Him as I should, but I do not question His existence, or integrity and holiness.

Agreed, thanks for the clarification.

 

[We Never Know]

Deuteronomy 13.

Thanks. Saying "deserves" and "immediately" is adding ones own words to it. Thats what I was wanting to know.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I share your sentiment, Shadow Wolf. It was a difficult struggle for me to walk away from my Christian faith, though. I struggled with it because I had spent thirty-one years of my life as a Christian. It was a painful experience for me, but I don't regret my decision to forsake my faith. Honestly, I feel more at peace now than I ever felt during all the years I was a devout Christian.

Mine was 15 years. But it too was a hard thing for me. The Church was all I had known, I gave so much to the church, dedicated myself to it and was being brought up for to lead. It was a struggle for months, it was hard even considering it. But once I left it felt like such a tremendous burden was lifted from my shoulders. Being a Christian was constant torments, constant depression, constant anxiety, it gave me nightmares of going to Hell, and it left me praying to Jehovah to let me die and end my suffering and misery. He didn't, but leaving it all behind certainly did

 

[DNB]

Show me where in the bible where it says...
"Those who defy their Creator, and/or insult Him by paying allegiance to worthless idols, deserves to die, immediately!"

Especially the part about they "deserve to die immediately"

Either you can or can't.

May I ask, have you ever read the Old Testament, and are familiar with the Levitical Law that is found from Exodus to Deuteronomy?

 

[Ashoka]

Deuteronomy 13.

There's many more. The Abrahamic God is a monster.

 

[muhammad_isa]

How can I possibly find joy when people are supposedly burning in hell?

We have to come to terms with reality. Some people will not succeed, despite the many warnings that they receive.

 

[Ashoka]

We have to come to terms with reality. Some people will not succeed, despite the many warnings that they receive.

The Abrahamic God sends people to be tortured in hell just because they believe differently. That's not justice. That's not mercy. That's sick and wrong.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You can't say that

I just did and I'll say it again. The God of Abraham administers cruel punishments that exceed the crime. It's not righteous, it's not right. It's excessive and wrong. There is nothing fair about it.

It is ourselves who are in need.

I am not in need or repentance, nor will I apologize to a creator for making me as I am.
If anything the God of Abraham should come groveling before us and plead forgiveness for the heinous crimes, extreme cruelty, amd genocide he beings against us. He made us this way, but he wants to punish us for it. He owes us an apology.

 

[We Never Know]

May I ask, have you ever read the Old Testament, and are familiar with the Levitical Law that is found from Exodus to Deuteronomy?

You cant show me. Thats ok. You should just say so.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Now, they are full of regret. That's the burning.

Of course they are sorry. Sorry they got caught out. But are they truly sorry, or would they just go on in their old ways like Pharaoh?
G-d knows what we are.

 

[muhammad_isa]

To me being a Christian was hell. But I left that all behind and life got easier and I have no regrets.

..but what about the future?
Do you really think that G-d warns us for His benefit?
Of course not !

 

[muhammad_isa]

He made us this way, but he wants to punish us for it.

G-d does not want to punish anybody.
If we don't heed His warnings, then we have to accept the consequences. There are always consequences.

Pride comes before a fall. You could say that it is "G-d punishing us", but can't you see that it is directly a consequence of our actions, and not G-d "striking us down" by some feat of magic?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Of course they are sorry. Sorry they got caught out. But are they truly sorry, or would they just go on in their old ways like Pharaoh?
G-d knows what we are.

You have multiple people saying we have no regret and you still want to insist we are filled with something we aren't?
Amd don't assume it's going back to old ways. For me that would be going back to Christianity. But when I left that was all I knew so it was a whole new world and ways to learn and discover myself.