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“Hindus fall because they worship lesser gods.” Abrahamics are trampling Hindus. Can you help me understand?

Bharat Jhunjhunwala

TruthPrevails
Well, you are not the universal truth as far as I can tell. And neither am I. But you are as dangerous as me, but for another reason. You are convinced you hold the truth. That makes you dangerous.
So yeah, I can play that game too.
With due regard I never claim I hold the truth; I am a seeker and I am absolutely open to your comments on “My Truth” may not be the correct one. I think we should get out of this one-to-one talk and instead concentrate on the basic issue whether God is made up of our universal consciousness.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
With due regard I never claim I hold the truth; I am a seeker and I am absolutely open to your comments on “My Truth” may not be the correct one. I think we should get out of this one-to-one talk and instead concentrate on the basic issue whether God is made up of our universal consciousness.

Well, that is simple. I have a different faith than you as far as I can tell.
And as long as should you claim in effect objective morality however you do that, I will point out that it is subjective as far as I can tell.
 

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
Yes , my thinking actually is not only animals and plants but also material objects like stone and water also have this consciousness. Only their consciousness is at a very low level. In support of this I rely on the work of Philip Goff who has done work on Pan-Psychism. For your convenience I am attaching here the summary article of Philip Goff.
The article you provided reminds me of the resonance theory of consciousness which I agree with. It is presented in the following article.

The Easy Part of the Hard Problem: A Resonance Theory of Consciousness

Please explain what you mean by other animals and plants for that matter have a "very low level". Given the complexity of their organization this seems incorrect.

Can a group of the same species or group of non related species have a collective consciousness?

What is your stand on animism?
 

River Sea

Well-Known Member
@Bharat Jhunjhunwala explains further about limitations that cause trampling due to jealousy. I'll could see this through psychology, as I could look at this too. Have I ever acted like YHWH before in my life? I think that's what I'm going to do with religion stories: turn them into psychology and see if I can understand more. Because it's people who are gods.

How then did YHWH become so limited, and being limited causes trampling due to jealousy? Because when including everyone, there's no need to trample. In a way, this is psychology. Because I could look at this in my life. If I'm limited, am I then feeling the need to trampling? Because, when including everyone, there is no need to trample. I'm thinking this through.

 
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Bharat Jhunjhunwala

TruthPrevails
Well, that is simple. I have a different faith than you as far as I can tell.
And as long as should you claim in effect objective morality however you do that, I will point out that it is subjective as far as I can tell.
I am open to your comments please explain to me where I have endorsed and said objective morality. I have no absolutes and I think morality is very relative.
In my mind only way to understand morality is whether it needs the evolution of the whole universe. If you consider that to be an objective morality perhaps, I may differ with you.
 

Bharat Jhunjhunwala

TruthPrevails
I'll just leave this here...
I am not when I say that the same person venerated in Hindu and Abrahamic religion, I am not trying to destroy the spiritual path of Abrahamic religion. In fact, I am trying to enliven and reorient the spiritual path of the Abrahamic religion. I do hold the view that they have overly emphasized their own exclusivity which leads to the negation of the One God.
 

Bharat Jhunjhunwala

TruthPrevails
The article you provided reminds me of the resonance theory of consciousness which I agree with. It is presented in the following article.

The Easy Part of the Hard Problem: A Resonance Theory of Consciousness

Please explain what you mean by other animals and plants for that matter have a "very low level". Given the complexity of their organization this seems incorrect.

Can a group of the same species or group of non related species have a collective consciousness?

What is your stand on animism?
From the Oxford Dictionary – Animism has two components, one is the attribution of the living soul to plants, animate objects and natural phenomena. I accept this.
The second dimension of animism is the belief in a supernatural power that organizes and animates the material world. I do not agree with this, I think the collective consciousness of all living beings, plants, and inanimate objects coalesces and forms one collective consciousness which can be called God. Now, it is true that the collective consciousness or God influences the evolution and all human beings since that collective consciousness is connected with the consciousness of all objects but to say it controls and directs its constituent parts is a bit too far.
When I say matter has very low level of consciousness, all I am saying is that its voltage, so to say is lower than the other. I don’t think we have a temperature meter that can measure the level of consciousness, it is a conceptual idea. I do not think it is necessarily connected with the complexity of an organization. Although I have not thought this through but it seems to me that complexity can come with a low level of consciousness and simplicity can come with a high level of consciousness. There may be two different dimensions we need to study this further.
 

Bharat Jhunjhunwala

TruthPrevails
So again I am asking out of curiosity do you thus see plants, animals and rocks as conscious beings? This has an implication on my animistic perspective so I am interested in your point of view.
Thank you for your interest, I would like to present before you 2 quotations of the Vedas.
  • A thousand heads hath Purusha, a thousand eyes, a thousand feet. On every side pervading earth, he fills a space ten fingers wide… From him Viraj was born; again, Purusha from Viraj was born (Rig Veda 10:90:1, 5).
  • He indeed together brought beings; he indeed together went about beings; being father, he became son of them (Atharva Veda 19:53:4).
What these quotes are saying is this, that the material world (Viraj) is both father as well as son of the psychic world (Brahman). So, I see that when the universe came out of singularity it simultaneously appeared in the psychic and material dimension and these continuous to interact always. So, every particle in this universe has two dimension one is psychic and another is material.

The difference is the psychic dimension interact and coalesces with each other and that can be personified. I called this the universal consciousness or God. So, to my mind God is a product of us and our physical and psychic dimensions continuously interact with each other.
 

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member
I am not when I say that the same person venerated in Hindu and Abrahamic religion, I am not trying to destroy the spiritual path of Abrahamic religion. In fact, I am trying to enliven and reorient the spiritual path of the Abrahamic religion. I do hold the view that they have overly emphasized their own exclusivity which leads to the negation of the One God.
I think it's telling that you say that you are trying not to destroy the spiritual path of Abrahamic religion, but make no mention of trying not to destroy the spiritual path of dharmic religion.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I think it's telling that you say that you are trying not to destroy the spiritual path of Abrahamic religion, but make no mention of trying not to destroy the spiritual path of dharmic religion.
Not easy to destroy something that lies within, at the very core of man. If that somehow happened temporarily, the 7 rishis and others would return and bring it all out again.
 

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
From the Oxford Dictionary – Animism has two components, one is the attribution of the living soul to plants, animate objects and natural phenomena. I accept this.
The second dimension of animism is the belief in a supernatural power that organizes and animates the material world. I do not agree with this, I think the collective consciousness of all living beings, plants, and inanimate objects coalesces and forms one collective consciousness which can be called God. Now, it is true that the collective consciousness or God influences the evolution and all human beings since that collective consciousness is connected with the consciousness of all objects but to say it controls and directs its constituent parts is a bit too far.
When I say matter has very low level of consciousness, all I am saying is that its voltage, so to say is lower than the other. I don’t think we have a temperature meter that can measure the level of consciousness, it is a conceptual idea. I do not think it is necessarily connected with the complexity of an organization. Although I have not thought this through but it seems to me that complexity can come with a low level of consciousness and simplicity can come with a high level of consciousness. There may be two different dimensions we need to study this further.
Animism is not associated with supernatural. That was an attribute given by the colonial rational is mind who invented the idea of supernatural. Traditional indigenous societies and modern religious movements reclaiming animistic wisdom know there is no supernatural world. All is within the natural world - no supernatural. This has finally been adopted by anthropologists who actually spend time to understand the cultures they write about as demonstrated in Marshell Sahlins book The New Science of the Enchanted Universe.
 

Bharat Jhunjhunwala

TruthPrevails
How then did YHWH become so limited, and being limited causes trampling due to jealousy?
My senses that when the Jews left the Indus Valley, they were confronted with the enemies from here right up to Israel these included the Kings of Eden and others. In this period, it was necessary for the Hebrews to stick together at that point their god became jealous with respect to other people in order to keep the Hebrew flock together.
 

Bharat Jhunjhunwala

TruthPrevails
I think it's telling that you say that you are trying not to destroy the spiritual path of Abrahamic religion, but make no mention of trying not to destroy the spiritual path of dharmic religion.
The thread was about how the Abrahamic are trampling the Hindus. Hence, I focused on the Abrahamic religions but since you asked, I affirm that I have no interest in Harming the spiritual path of the Dharmic religions. In fact, I think that following certain elements of the spiritual path of the dharmic religions by Abrahamic religions would solve many problems that the Abrahamic religion face.
 

Bharat Jhunjhunwala

TruthPrevails
Not easy to destroy something that lies within, at the very core of man. If that somehow happened temporarily, the 7 rishis and others would return and bring it all out again.
I think we must look at the Abrahamic Religions and examine how they have destroyed the universality of God and restricted it to either the chosen people of the Jews, the only path of the Jesus or the last prophet of the Muslims. So, it is not correct to say that not easy to destroy something that lies within. In fact, we are seeing the destruction of what lies within. As far as seven rishis and other are concerned I think we need not rely upon their comments because the Inka, Maya, Greek and Roman civilizations have declined without the seven rishis and others coming to revive them.
 

Bharat Jhunjhunwala

TruthPrevails
Animism is not associated with supernatural. That was an attribute given by the colonial rational is mind who invented the idea of supernatural. T
I am not defending or attacking animism. I hold what I said earlier that the all living and even non-living beings have consciousness. In order to say that supernatural does not exist, one has to really make a critique of psychologist as well as Philip Goff who has propounded Pan Psychism merely saying that there is no supernatural does not work for me.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I think we must look at the Abrahamic Religions and examine how they have destroyed the universality of God and restricted it to either the chosen people of the Jews, the only path of the Jesus or the last prophet of the Muslims. So, it is not correct to say that not easy to destroy something that lies within. In fact, we are seeing the destruction of what lies within. As far as seven rishis and other are concerned I think we need not rely upon their comments because the Inka, Maya, Greek and Roman civilizations have declined without the seven rishis and others coming to revive them.
Why look at them at all? Hinduism is all I need. But you go ahead. Analyze it all you want to. Best wishes in coming to a result that satisfies you.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
God speaks through perception. The perception is colored by the thoughts of the subject. Abrahamics have solidified their perceptions. Whether the performed correctly is open.
I believe you recognize that not every perception is from God. I have not solidified my perceptions. There have been marked changes in the last ten years.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Evades the question of exclusivity.
I believe exclusivity is God's prerogative. Thou shalt have no other Gods beside me. However a willing to ask if you think there is another way to be saved. The Muslims offer one: fighting for God although I believe that is a rare thing and that doesn't save the person from sin.
 
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