1,000,000,000/1 Against Evolution !

[Popeyesays]

Yeah, but Newhard probably didn't have the monkey dressed up in stereotypical journalist garb and smoking a cigarette while Mr. Burns reviewed his work

Back in those days it ws Newhart, a microphone and the cigarette in his hand. His first album was titled: The Button-down Mind of Bob Newhart. He and Lennie Bruce and Shelly Berman were all contemporaries.
http://www.shelleyberman.com/
http://www.bobnewhart.com/
Lennie Bruce is hard to find on the web.

Regards,
Scott

 

[lilithu]

You are right, but I don't think anyone is trying to say that. But if we know that evolution did/does occur, then the probability of it happening is 1, making all calculations irrelevent. So once again, I will point out that Evolution is a Law and a theory, that is, it is scientific fact. Given the evidence, IMHO, the probability of evolution is in fact 1 because it is occuring.

No, that we are here has a probability of 1. That says nothing about how we got here. The issue is whether natural selection can possibly be the mechanism by how we got here. And the OP is saying that it cannot be possible given the probabilities (thereby suggesting that evolution was directed by an intelligent designer).

Yep, in all likelyhood it would be because the scientists did the calculations wrong, or were not aware of necessary data. But that is the thing, science is self correcting, when "it" (science, I guess) is wrong, it gets fixed.

I would be the last one to say that scientists never make mistakes. But in general, if there is a discrepancy, I would first make sure that I correctly understood the science before I assumed that the scientists had gotten it wrong.

These calculations were done by someone who does not correctly understand natural selection. If they were indeed made by scientists, they weren't very good scientists.

 

[Fade]

I'm trying to get my mind around the analogy -- but doesn't your explanation require someone who decides that what monkey #12 wrote was a word, and that it might be useful in the future, and put it into a place to retrieve it later? I'm sure I'm still missing something - but I think the analogy could use a lot of work.

I think the problem you might be having with the analogy is because the analogy is incorrect.

I believe the original idea was that you would need an infinite number of monkeys typing. Thus the odds of one of them typing a complete transcript of Hamlet becomes 1-1. Not to mention every other piece of literature in the known universe.

Douglas Adams makes good comedic use of the idea in 'The Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy'. Arthur Dent and Ford Prefect have just been rescued by the Starship Heart of Gold and are confronted by an infinite number of monkeys who try to sell them a copy of the manuscript of Hamlet that they have just written.

Edit - Wikipedia has a better discussion on the subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem

 

[SoyLeche]

No, that we are here has a probability of 1. That says nothing about how we got here. The issue is whether natural selection can possibly be the mechanism by how we got here. And the OP is saying that it cannot be possible given the probabilities (thereby suggesting that evolution was directed by an intelligent designer).
selection. If they were indeed made by scientists, they weren't very good scientists.

But that's the thing - even if everything in the OP were true, it doesn't mean that it "cannot be possible" - it means that it would be very unlikely. But, even unlikely things happen sometimes. I will never buy a lottery ticket becuase the chances of winning are just about the same whether you buy one or not - however, every once in a while somebody does the "impossible" and wins. Is it unlikely that everything fell into place such that life were able to evolve? Yes. Is it possible? Yes. It's possible that this is all some fluke - built upon random chance.

Let me clarify, however, that I am a theist. I believe that God created the universe and everything in it. I'm not entirely sure about the methods that he used to do so, however. While I have no idea how things fit together, I have no problem accepting both creation and evolution.

 

[alexander garcia]

Hi again No I am not a scientist. I have very little formal education but I can count in saveral langueges and one plus one has never changed! This is only a very conservative number. Take the story of any scientist let him tell you his OPINION on how many bad mutations it took to get one good and usefull mutation then muliply that number by the cells in the human body and then multiply that number by the number of EVERYTHING on planet Earth. Or take a grain of sand paint it purple throw it in the ocean and ask a blind man to find it in one try. This number is to big it seems for most to graspe the magnitude of this number. So we will try and do this another way. and I will appoligize ahead of time for those that may get offended.Why don't some of you tell the truth and end your carriers now and tell the truth about evolution? As C.Darwin did tell every one that Blacks are still monkies. It is not easy to pass a lie off! But if you make up your own languag and all of your unprovable theories( oh I forgot you can prove them by your made up languag. But in plain English it don't stand. Also the truth of your theories is sonething you all avoid. Why don't collages teach that Charles Darwin thought that Blacks just lost their tails? Why? Cause your RELIGION would be thrown out on it's ***. So tell me are Blacks just barely human? In my beliefs they are every bit a man as you or I!!!!!!!!!!! How do you side step this?

 

[SoyLeche]

Hi again No I am not a scientist. I have very little formal education but I can count in saveral langueges and one plus one has never changed! This is only a very conservative number. Take the story of any scientist let him tell you his OPINION on how many bad mutations it took to get one good and usefull mutation then muliply that number by the cells in the human body and then multiply that number by the number of EVERYTHING on planet Earth. Or take a grain of sand paint it purple throw it in the ocean and ask a blind man to find it in one try. This number is to big it seems for most to graspe the magnitude of this number. So we will try and do this another way. and I will appoligize ahead of time for those that may get offended.Why don't some of you tell the truth and end your carriers now and tell the truth about evolution? As C.Darwin did tell every one that Blacks are still monkies. It is not easy to pass a lie off! But if you make up your own languag and all of your unprovable theories( oh I forgot you can prove them by your made up languag. But in plain English it don't stand. Also the truth of your theories is sonething you all avoid. Why don't collages teach that Charles Darwin thought that Blacks just lost their tails? Why? Cause your RELIGION would be thrown out on it's ***. So tell me are Blacks just barely human? In my beliefs they are every bit a man as you or I!!!!!!!!!!! How do you side step this?

Strange change of tactics....

I don't think you are going to get anyone to argue that Darwin was infalible. He may well have been a raving racist lunatic - he could still come up with a pretty good theory to explain what he saw around him.

 

[Fade]

Can somebody please point me to a reliable source that shows Charles Darwin to be an out spoken racist?

Oh btw, Blacks are apes. So are Red Sea Pedestrians and last but not least so are you Alex. Don't let the clothes fool you. You and I are still hairy baboons at heart.

Is there an ignore option on this forum? I'd like to add Mr Garcia to it so I can spare my brain a migraine.

 

[alexander garcia]

Hi agian C. Darwin being a rasist has nothing to do with his theory you just said it was a good theory so you believe that BLACKS are just barely human? Or don't tell me that you find holes inthe theory? It is fuuny how people say that if there is ONE mistake in scripture we can throw it out the window. But YOU yourself just found what you claim to be wrong! Cause I don't think that you think that blacks are monkeies or do you? We can find millions and we have mistakes in science and it don't matter cause we will come up with nice words to prove the lies. Excuse me let me make this clear is evolution amthamaticly possible YES can the blind man find the one grain of sand painted purple YES. That is right for the person that mentioned it that we are here only proves that we exsist. But you see the problem? Intelagent people being blinded by the devil. Because I think that is the reason that people can't see what is right in front of them. I just think that I'll bet my life on better odds of it being the truth. Reality this theory has changed so much sence it's Religous founder started it that it is a JOKE! Oh ya and the NATURAL SELECTION means in English that something selected unless you also claim to change the languag that much, This means that NATURE is alive or once again do you change our languag to say that select is done by nothing or is nature alive?If science is so much of a fact then all your scienists would agree if it were a fact! The fact is they don't! So whose disiple are you?

 

[SoyLeche]

Hi agian C. Darwin being a rasist has nothing to do with his theory you just said it was a good theory so you believe that BLACKS are just barely human? Or don't tell me that you find holes inthe theory? It is fuuny how people say that if there is ONE mistake in scripture we can throw it out the window. But YOU yourself just found what you claim to be wrong! Cause I don't think that you think that blacks are monkeies or do you? We can find millions and we have mistakes in science and it don't matter cause we will come up with nice words to prove the lies. Excuse me let me make this clear is evolution amthamaticly possible YES can the blind man find the one grain of sand painted purple YES. That is right for the person that mentioned it that we are here only proves that we exsist. But you see the problem? Intelagent people being blinded by the devil. Because I think that is the reason that people can't see what is right in front of them. I just think that I'll bet my life on better odds of it being the truth. Reality this theory has changed so much sence it's Religous founder started it that it is a JOKE! Oh ya and the NATURAL SELECTION means in English that something selected unless you also claim to change the languag that much, This means that NATURE is alive or once again do you change our languag to say that select is done by nothing or is nature alive?If science is so much of a fact then all your scienists would agree if it were a fact! The fact is they don't! So whose disiple are you?

Again, you aren't going to find anyone arguing for Darwin's infalibility, or that of his theory. Most people don't believe in evolution BECAUSE Darwin said so. They have looked at his theory, applied it to their own observations, altered it accordingly, and have moved on. Nobody is going to claim that anything that he wrote is Scripture, and therefore incapable of being wrong. So far, however, the theory explains observations better than anything else we've got, so we run with it. If evidence against it appears in the future, it will be abandoned, and few people will have lost their faith in science because of it.

 

[Fade]

Has anyone got an aspirin?

 

[alexander garcia]

Hi again I see Fade is smart enooff to call all kinds of people monkeys BUT WHY DID YOU NOT SAY BLACKS? I'm sorry your belief gives you a headacke I know the odds hurt!! Stop tring to prove a lie it might not hurt as much. Why is it that educated can't stand to be questioned it hurts, to try and answer. So without the side steps and dubble talk you cann't even talk about this trash. Even your very words show you your misguidence. Natural selection,evolve is now addapt And the one that really makes me laugh is that everything happened by ACCIDENT that is in ENGLISH what evolution means ACCIDENT oh Yes I forgot ACCIDENTS without CAUSE only the effect on cause WE dont know. Or have you all made up a new word to make your point? Can you make it in English? Or is your best these pokes cause I really think they are funny thanks (smile)

 

[painted wolf]

um... wow...

first off statistics such as the million to one, example are inherantly falce.
We have no way of kowing it takes x number of "bad" mutations untill you get a "good" mutation. Such statistics are plucked out of nothingnes in hopes of sounding offical... or at least impressive. Sadly they are empty.

secondly, Darwin was actually (for his time) farily forward thinking in terms of race. He strongly believed that all humans were the same species and was very vocal in his hatred of slavery. Now he wasn't by any means modern in his thinking on race.. who was nearly two hundred years ago?

wa:do

 

[alexander garcia]

Hi, thank you painted wolf for your comment Why didn't you tell it to the EVOLUTIONISTS that came up with it when they realized that to say it all happen by will was stupid. This is my point that they have to come up with all this stuff to try and prove their theories. They have to add what ever number of years who ever you speak to (scientists) Millions of so called years to the equation and you add all these words that where mand for the theory and the only way anyone proves anything is by THEIR test. Science is what you can observe. Depends on who you speak to cause that is subject to change! And wial I'm tring to think for the lottery comparison The lotery the odds are on you being the one that is going to win! Not that some one is going to win Because we all know and I can prove by Observation that someone alway win sooner or later. So please try to compair apple to at least a Fruit. And I am not questioning if he beleved we were in the same species, NORE did I mention slavery, Slavery has nothing to do with race, The Israelites were slave way before blacks! And I am a First generation American. So NORE did I or any of my family have anything to do with slavery!!!!! But to suggest that Darwin in writing did not make such remarksas that the Irish were white chimps? Cause I am pretty sure I have read it some where once or twice. NOT that I agree Before any one has me as a terrible racist!

 

[Ceridwen018]

This is my point that they have to come up with all this stuff to try and prove their theories.

The only one making things up here is you. My advice? Go read a science book, preferably biology. Until then, I will continue to have a very difficult time taking you seriously.

 

[Buttons*]

The only one making things up here is you. My advice? Go read a science book, preferably biology. Until then, I will continue to have a very difficult time taking you seriously.

i coulda told you all that from the beginning ....

 

[alexander garcia]

Hi, it's funny how the only answer anyone gives as proff is read this book by us or that book by us and see we can prove it by what WE say. I have no problem with theories I just think that our languag is butchered enoff that we don't have to change the meaning of words or make up words to prove what you all say is so clear to anyone with what 6 year of collage to understand or is 4 years enoff? The truth is you must have years of indoctronation to even be able to speak with you educated people cause to a simple person your simple theory can't even be told. I'll tell you what if you can figure out how on Earth to tell your theory in English I'll I'll prove it wrong by common sense. Please don't make me get a scientific dictionary cause most of the terms you have to use are not in our stupid people dictionaries.

 

[d.]

Or take a grain of sand paint it purple throw it in the ocean and ask a blind man to find it in one try.

can the blind man find the one grain of sand painted purple YES.

i'm sure everyone reading this thread have been meaning to ask this but were afraid to :

why is the grain of sand to be painted purple? what does it matter to a blind man?

But if you make up your own languag and all of your unprovable theories( oh I forgot you can prove them by your made up languag.

i'm sure you've heard about throwing stones in glass houses. don't do it.

 

[d.]

I just think that our languag is butchered enoff

i agree wholeheartedly.

I'll tell you what if you can figure out how on Earth to tell your theory in English

this is too easy.

 

[SoyLeche]

Hi, it's funny how the only answer anyone gives as proff is read this book by us or that book by us and see we can prove it by what WE say. I have no problem with theories I just think that our languag is butchered enoff that we don't have to change the meaning of words or make up words to prove what you all say is so clear to anyone with what 6 year of collage to understand or is 4 years enoff? The truth is you must have years of indoctronation to even be able to speak with you educated people cause to a simple person your simple theory can't even be told. I'll tell you what if you can figure out how on Earth to tell your theory in English I'll I'll prove it wrong by common sense. Please don't make me get a scientific dictionary cause most of the terms you have to use are not in our stupid people dictionaries.

I understand that English probably isn't your first language, but I have to laugh when you claim that others are butchering the language.

Mods -- If this is inappropriate, please remove it.

 

[dorcas3000]

I understand that English probably isn't your first language, but I have to laugh when you claim that others are butchering the language.

Mods -- If this is inappropriate, please remove it.

lol EXACTLY what I was thinking. Please use commas and proper sentence structure.