1,000,000,000/1 Against Evolution !

[evearael]

Okay, first read up on mutations... the majority of which have NO effect because they are corrected. They are not necessarily good or bad. Think about how the sickle cell trait (bad) is a defense against malaria (good). Here is a good place to start:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation

And here is an abstract regarding the mutation rates in humans:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10978293&dopt=Abstract which says:
"The average mutation rate was estimated to be approximately 2.5 x 10(-8) mutations per nucleotide site or 175 mutations per diploid genome per generation."

The number of people alive in 2006 alone... 6,499,697,060 from
http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm

Which means, in the population that exists right now, there are approximately 1,137,446,985,500 mutations in the current population. Some good, some bad, though, mostly neutral. Now, if you count how many people have been alive since the dawn of time, you can surely see the math indicates the potential for change in a species over time.

Do some research before berating people with insults and exclamation points, or people may get the idea you've been smoking something...

 

[alexander garcia]

Hi, thank you evearael for your response but if I may 1. you say mutations are not good or bad. And you use a sickle cell and malaria as exsamples I think they are called by another name in English I think they are called sicknesses? So please tell me of mans last evolutionary mutation? 2. I am a very stupid person so I ask that educated people that speak English to please be so kind as to do so ( approximatly 2.5 x 10(-8) mutations per nucleotide site or 175 mutations per diploid genome per generation ) How much education do you need to speak this? this is BABBLE to me as it is to anyone that speaks english in my opinion. 3. According to your math there are 1,137,446,985,500 mutations in the current poplulation. By your math every one has all kinds of mutations in them? Please name one. Before for if you respond what is your definition of mutation? Because one of my points is that this conversation you have to get to so much of defining of what is ment that you or any one that wants to evade all you have to do is change the meaning of words and you all do it very well. Here it sounds like you are calling sickle cell and malaria as mutations. Is my beard a mutation?

 

[Opethian]

The problem is alexander, you can't really discuss this if you don't have any education or knowledge on it. You can't expect us to debate someone who doesn't understand what he's debating.

 

[zabugle]

Sickle cell anemia is caused by a mutation that changes the shape of red blood cells from roundto sickle shaped, hence the name. A person homozygous for this mutation is anemic, their cells cannot carry enough oxygen. However the sickle shaped cells are resistant to malaria infection, so in areas where malaria is prevalent the heterozygotes have the greatest advantage.

If in weren't for mutation there would be no variation among people. It's mutation that make our eyes blue or brow, our hair straight or curly, etc. In fact without mutation there would be no variation in life at all.

 

[alexander garcia]

Hi, First O. this is my point exactly You can only say it with a colleage degree cause with all of everyones education you can't say it in English. If you could i would be more than happy with common sence to show you how many errors there are in your theories. Well just to say out of all the people that have responded I have not heard one person give any profe of evolution, also the fact that if you look at just this thread you notice that you all have different forms,kinds,parts,words and everything else is different in all of you. You all have different theories on how and you are all right but none of you can agree on how or prove it. Hi, Z, thank you and I really sound like a (mule) Idon't mean to but what you call mutations most doctors would argue with you. Smoking camels and getting lung cancer I don't call a mutation. Getting bite by a bug I don't call a mutation. And I truly don't mean to sound as nasty as I know I do at times. But they are changing things in schools and in the world. I truly hope your eyes are opened! Because remember if you are right, I have nothing to worry about! But if I am right you are in alot of trouble. Don't just take someones word for anything no matter how smart and proud they are. Think that is what they should be teaching.

 

[zabugle]

mu·ta·tion

1. Genetics.<LI type=a>A change of the DNA sequence within a gene or chromosome of an organism resulting in the creation of a new character or trait not found in the parental type. <LI type=a>The process by which such a change occurs in a chromosome, either through an alteration in the nucleotide sequence of the DNA coding for a gene or through a change in the physical arrangement of a chromosome.
2. A mutant.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=mutation

It's not getting bitten by a bug. It's getting bitten by a bug and having genetically conferred resistance to the pathogen that bug carries. If you want to talk about smoking camels and getting cancer, I've actually been involved in research involving the interaction between genes and enviromental factors (smoking and diet) in lung cancer. I could talk about it for days.

 

[evearael]

English version...
Mutation in genes are perfectly normal occurrences. That's what the really, really big numbers mean. Usually, they amount to no great importance (the mole on your right arm), however, sometimes they are located on parts of a gene that can change things for better or for worse. Everyones genes are unique, however, not everyones genes are passed along and they become dead ends. The people who do live long enough to produce offspring pass their genes on to the new generation.

For instance, it's cold in Siberia. People who can handle the cold better have a greater chance of mating and passing the genes along, where the people who don't handle the cold well are more likely to die before mating. Thus, when you look at the genes of that sample population, over time, you will find more people who can handle the cold. It doesn't mean that the people who can't handle the cold have 'bad' genes, just they are not well suited to that particular environment.

I'm not going to even bother explaining the varieties of mutations, because you have shown a complete unwillingness to learn. Clicking on my first link would more than solve your query in very basic english. You don't need a college degree, just the desire to educate yourself! How can you expect to bring anyone to your point of view without bringing anything to the table?

Zabugle has already explained what I meant about the sickle cell anemia trait being bad on the surface, but being good in that it defends against a worse malady.

I also disagree for the basis of this entire post. The God I believe in is more than powerful enough to create a process like evolution to do His will.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The God I believe in is more than powerful enough to create a process like evolution to do His will.

Nonsense. This can only mean grossly distorting the theory of evolution.

 

[Quiddity]

Nonsense. This can only mean grossly distorting the theory of evolution.

Or grossly distorting a person's theology. One must understand both to make a statement like this.

 

[evearael]

I believe in keeping science and religion separate, but I do not find an inherent contradiction in them. They do complement each other and attempt to get at the same thing, but with different methodologies and different starting points. I also believe God created respiration, number theory, the grand unified theory, quantum theory, gravity, etcetera ad nauseum. I believe that God created every concievable aspect of this universe, and that its inherent complexity is a great credit to Him.

I'm merely trying to express that believing in God is not a reason to refuse to educate yourself about science, because on the surface you don't understand it. I'm sure there were parts of your religion that you didn't fully understand the first time around. That doesn't make those verses wrong.

 

[alexander garcia]

Hi, Z, DNA you bring up a good point just not for you DNA when did these letters come into exsistence? Mutation when did this word come into exsistence? Today you say that the evolutionists were wrong, What will they say of you in years to come? Oh ya if scripture is true you don't have many years left. Hi, E , I still stand that what you are calling mutations are not. I am sorry it offends you that I am to stupid to beleave that a person that lives in Siberia is a mutant. The fisrt problem is that we have totaly different meanings to words. In the Sixtes in collage there was only one ice age since then the only thing that has changed is that that was proved to be so stupid that it had to be changed to how many ice ages are there now any way? I have heard from as little as three to so so many. And none of you agree but in the same hand you will all agree that you are right. Well my stupid common sence says it is impoossible for you to have at least two different stories yet neither one is wrong? I still stand that if evolution is true I lose nothing. If scripture is true you lose it all! I don't care about being right or wrong smart or stupid. All it is is that I think you are headed for a place you may not like or be able to leave.

 

[BUDDY]

A evolutionist would rightly say that the odds of evolution are exectly 1 to 1. We are here and the only resonable explanation based upon the testable evidence is evolution.

 

[Ardent Listener]

I really don't see the orginal point of this thread. Even if the odds were 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000....or more....../1 against evolution, if God did not create what we know as this world, it still happend or we would not be talking about it. In unlimited time and space such "odds" really don't matter.

I don't see how such statistics make the agrument for creation. This is from a Catholic boy.

 

[evearael]

Sigh... I am not calling people in Siberia mutants. Mutation is an unusual variation in a really, really long string of data called DNA. I have mutations, you have mutations, it doesn't usually matter much and it isn't necessarily noticable in everyday life. Sometimes it does matter, though, and can have a profound impact on a person.

As far as science periodically recanting on this theory and that theory goes, I'd say it is healthy and desirable that we correct ourselves as we go. Consider a little child hearing the verse, "Suffer the little children to come unto Me." They might be really worried! However, as they grow older, they realize that their original interpretation was wrong and they embrace the verse, as was intended.

 

[alexander garcia]

Hi, Buddy please give me these proffs that must have cause I'll use your words we are here and no one can prove evolution so see we are here only proves one thing. THAT WE ARE HERE. If not please explain how us being here has to prove evolution? Hi, A.L., I have no problem with you Almighty doing anything. My problem is that the Almighty did not say that He did it as evolutionist say it happened. And since evolution and science in general have so many holes in there theories that I can't help but believe the scriptures that have never been proven wrong over so so many theories that none agree with the other. truth in the past all the scientists of the time agreed this proves evolution. Only to be a pigs part. So what good was all their education? STILL IN ASK WHERE IS ALL THIS PROFF IN ENGLISH YOU ALL SPEAK OF? As I said in all through here you can't say it in English. Or if you can't in English maybe in Espanol? I really don't mean to be so stupid but just think for a moment and see how many holes you can put into these stories? cause after all that is what theories are just stories maid up by man.and remember if you are right I lose NOTHING. If I am right you lose EVERYTHING. Is it not worth taking a good look around?

 

[alexander garcia]

Hi, E, To me science does not recant it is prove wrong in my opinion. But we have different means to words. Because when I was younger there was no DNA found yet. Also just as we found that the world is not flat. DNA might not be DNA? Is this possible since it seems that theory is what is best over recorded history. in fact I'll soon post just some of the problems with evolution that no one can answer

 

[Buttons*]

Hi, E, To me science does not recant it is prove wrong in my opinion. But we have different means to words. Because when I was younger there was no DNA found yet. Also just as we found that the world is not flat. DNA might not be DNA? Is this possible since it seems that theory is what is best over recorded history. in fact I'll soon post just some of the problems with evolution that no one can answer

...... so you're saying that just because we havent always known it, it's not valid?

 

[evearael]

Actually, Alexander Garcia, I do have a question for you... I've noticed you've listed your religion as Jewish, so what are these big consequences you keep talking about? God says in Deuteronomy 4:16-18 to the Children of Israel: "...lest you act corruptly and make for yourselves, a likeness in any shape; a form of a male or a female; a form of any animal that is on the earth; a form of any winged bird that flies in heaven; a form of anything that creeps on the ground; a form of any fish that is in the water under the earth; and lest you raise your eyes to the heaven and you see the sun, and the moon, and the stars--the entire legions of heaven--and you be drawn astray and bow down and worship them, which HASHEM, your God, has apportioned to all the peoples under the entire heaven!" Short version... other people can worship the creations of God, but the Jews must only worship the one true God. Sooo... where are you getting the "you lose EVERYTHING" rhetoric?

 

[Buttons*]

Hi, Buddy please give me these proffs that must have cause I'll use your words we are here and no one can prove evolution so see we are here only proves one thing. THAT WE ARE HERE. If not please explain how us being here has to prove evolution? Hi, A.L., I have no problem with you Almighty doing anything. My problem is that the Almighty did not say that He did it as evolutionist say it happened. And since evolution and science in general have so many holes in there theories that I can't help but believe the scriptures that have never been proven wrong over so so many theories that none agree with the other. truth in the past all the scientists of the time agreed this proves evolution. Only to be a pigs part. So what good was all their education? STILL IN ASK WHERE IS ALL THIS PROFF IN ENGLISH YOU ALL SPEAK OF? As I said in all through here you can't say it in English. Or if you can't in English maybe in Espanol? I really don't mean to be so stupid but just think for a moment and see how many holes you can put into these stories? cause after all that is what theories are just stories maid up by man.and remember if you are right I lose NOTHING. If I am right you lose EVERYTHING. Is it not worth taking a good look around?

you're valliant.... i'll give you that... but maybe you should go back to school before you tell educated people about scientific theories.

 

[evearael]

How old are you? DNA was discovered by Watson and Crick and was published in 1953.