1/15,000 chance that you're right.

[ayani]

ok, here is my try at this: i will argue against my faith from the standpoint of LaVeyan Satanism, specifically the Nine Satanic Statements:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVeyan_Satanism

from the point of view of this tradition, my own faith is silly and unreasonable. to attempt to devote myself whole-heartedly to rememberance of a single phrase is illogical and leads to internal struggle. what my faith asks of me is a universally mindful and compassionate approach to all peoples, and this is simply unrealistic and a waste of energy. it is not possible to respond well to everyone, nor should we try to. we should allow ourselves to enjoy and to hate, and to reject those whom we hate. we must be repsonsible for ourselves and not neccesarily for others, especially those we do not know or who are ungrateful to us. my faith is unrealistic and more troublesome than pleasurable.

to this i would argue that it has become for me more natural to pray and to remember my faith than it has for me to be willfully self-gratifying and individualist. i can not forget my faith, nor the Prayer. to recall it always has become my goal and my station, no matter where i am. true, it is not easy to remember, and this struggle does sometimes lead to suffering. but to struggle a little in faith is, for me, better than to be ungrateful or heedless to what life brings me. the Prayer, i hope, may become my whole life.

 

[Katzpur]

So what is it that makes the Yahweh character so necessary to you? I mean, you can look at the sun in the sky and see that it provides so much to us that we need for life. If the sun were to just disappear, life as we know it would end.

I realize that. As to what makes the Abrahamic God so necessary to me, I suppose that the best answer I can give you is that the only truth we can know is the truth that works for us.

When you consider God, though, it's nothing like the sun. I have denied the existence of this being and nothing has changed for me. I'm happier and more fulfilled in my life than ever. You would think a God would have much more impact on our lives than the sun would. He just isn't necessary. I can live morally, happily and with a sense of awe and security without invoking God at all.

Well, that's great. I'm very happy for you, but would your life be even happier and more fulfilled if you could convince me to deny the existence of God? What I don't understand is why you feel that a lack of belief would make me any better off than I am right now.

In short, I can testify to you that belief in a God is not as necessary as you may think it is.

All you can do is testify to me that a belief in God is not necessary to you. You can't possibly say what is necessary for me any more than I can say what's necessary for you.

By justify I mean to have good reasons for what you believe. I think that you do have good reasons to follow your religion, but I don't think you have good reasons to think your religion is actually true. The moral code you live by can be attained without a God.

I'm not sure what makes you think your reasons for rejecting my belief are any more valid than my reasons for rejecting your lack of belief. I would go along with you, though, that many atheists have a moral code which is every bit as good as that of many theists.

Well, I'm certainly glad you have thought about this and can admire you for it.

Thank you.

If by "ended up" you mean the Celestial Kingdom, then you're saying beliefs don't really matter in the grand scheme of things?

No, but I will say that it's a great deal more involved than you're implying. I think that there are a great many Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, etc. who will "end up" far better off than a lot of Mormons I know.

It's not on the grounds that you were born into it. I only pointing it out to make you wonder why you think it's true. You wouldn't think it was true had your circumstances been different, as you admitted. So how can you be at all confident in your ability to discern truth to begin with?

Probably the same way as you can be confident in your ability to do the same thing.

 

[Comprehend]

Apparently the "Christian" god is telling something different to the belivers of a that god. The Jewish god of the old testament and the Islamic god both hear something different. The Christian god can not get his story straight amongst Christian followers, i.e., Later Day Saints, Catholicism, the various evangelical groups, and (the prime immediate example where a split is happening) the Episcopal church.

This god doers not speak with a single voice and the god's message is different for each that hear the message

I disagree.

 

[Pah]

I disagree.

You must show the congruence. Otherwise your disagreement is puny

 

[BFD_Zayl]

To every single person who follows an organized religion, I ask two questions.

If you believe your religious convictions are correct, how can you be so certain about them when you know there are thousands of other religions out there in this world?

Let me put it this way. As much faith as you may have, as strongly as you believe your religion is the truth, as much as you think you know you're correct, I guarantee there is someone out there who believes in a different religion and is just as, if not more convinced they are right than you are. How do you justify your belief considering how stacked the odds are against you?

Second, to those who still believe in the religion they were raised in, don't you ever wonder that your beliefs are just an accident of geography?

If you were born in India, chances are very good you would be a Hindu. If you were born in the Middle East, chances are very good you would be a Muslim. If you were born in a Western country, chances are very good you would be a Christian.

Or, to take it one step further, if you were born in ancient Greece or Norway, there's no doubt in my mind you would believe in Zeus or Thor respectively.

For so many of you, your religion is an accident of where and what conditions you were born into. Are you so egotistical to think you are one of the lucky few who just happened to be born into the right religion? Because I've got news for you, so does everyone else.

If you still believe in the religion you were brought up in, I'd advise you to seriously, seriously consider why you believe what you do. It has nothing to do with if it's true or not. It's simply what you were taught. You believe what you do because it's what you were told to do.

Think about it.

wow, you on a bit of a tear arn't ya? I chose my religion because it suited me. other gods might exist, and I aknowledge that, I have no hate for other religions, nor do I have any great love. I believe what I wish, because it makes me content. what you do is your choice and honestly I do not care what you do.

 

[Prometheus]

I believe what I wish, because it makes me content.

So you don't care if what you believe is true or not but only that you are happy?

 

[BFD_Zayl]

So you don't care if what you believe is true or not but only that you are happy?

pretty much, I believe that it is true, because it sounds true to me, and what I do with my religion (rituals, spells, etc.) also makes me happy. really, I look around at all these people bickering about religion...I don't get it, keep it to yourself and others with like mind, and be happy.

 

[OneStraw Revolutionary]

No matter that all religions have some truth, there is still a religion out there that can be called the "most true."

It stands to reason that of all the world religions which teach different doctrines, one of them must have it either completely true or closest to actual truth than anyone else. Even if this religion itself does not have all truth, it would have the most.

Why do you expect there to be one truth for all of the people and cultures of the world? My life is vastly different than that of a third world farmer, whose life is vastly different than that of a fundamentalist soldier, whose life is vastly different than that of a middle-class housewife in Ohio. Their everyday concerns rarely match up, so why should their spiritual ones?

In ancient Ireland, fire was the source of survival. People would warm themselves by it, cook by it, live and sleep by it, because otherwise they would die when temperatures and other conditions changed. Therefore, the deity associated with fire is kind, motherly, nurturing and loving. In a different place in the world, where volcanoes erupt daily and affect people's lives constantly, the deity associated with fire is strong, dangerous, pays little reguard to humans. The truth about fire was different for each of these people, and so their spirituality around it was different.
My truth as a westerner is different than someone's who lives across the globe. My spirituality reflects that, just as their's reflects their truth.

I asked why you expect there to be a single truth for all of the world's peoples, but I suspect the answer is this; you have been born and raised in a culture whose main religion is an imperialist one, such as Christianity, Islam, or Buddhism. Imperialist religions, as a means of control, concern themselves with being the one true religion, or knowing the one truth that we each need. Such imperialistic religions have forcefully adapted or exterminated those who didn't know this truth, as a means to gain power for themselves. Because you have been raised in this culture, it has been ingrained that there is in fact one universal truth for all of the non-universal people in existance.

 

[Prometheus]

Why do you expect there to be one truth for all of the people and cultures of the world?

I think the divine is an absolute truth, not a relative truth. If there is a God, or a karma, or reincarnation, or a path to enlightenment, or souls and spirits, they would be true for everyone, not just a few.

So whatever supernaturalism is out there, it should be true for everyone just as much as other truths are the same for everyone.

 

[Comprehend]

You must show the congruence. Otherwise your disagreement is puny

actually, you would have to show how they differ first. All you did is assert that they were different. You didn't actually give any evidence that that was the case.

 

[painted wolf]

part 1: This is the way that is right for me. Everyone chooses the path that they walk, if someone elce wants to do what is best for them, who am I to argue?
Religion isn't just about "magic sky daddy worship" as some would like to say. Religion is also an expression of culture, history, psychology and self improvement.
My religion is (to me anyway) about connecting to my ancestors, learning from the spirits that guide me and learning to live in ballance with myself and the world around me.

wa:do

ps. part 2: doesn't really apply to me as I wasn't born into my faith.

 

[OneStraw Revolutionary]

I think the divine is an absolute truth, not a relative truth. If there is a God, or a karma, or reincarnation, or a path to enlightenment, or souls and spirits, they would be true for everyone, not just a few.

So whatever supernaturalism is out there, it should be true for everyone just as much as other truths are the same for everyone.

So much of the laws and dogma in religion (expecially the controversial ones) ARE relative, though. Relative to who was in power at the time, and to what part of the earth and what culture they came from.

I can agree that the divine can be or is an absolute truth, much like Newton's laws that govern my life whether I know about his laws or not. Still, much of religion isn't divine, its man-made and man-mandated. In nature, there is no one right way to live. Different species react to the same natural laws differently. Take overpopulation. Increased food supply means and increased population, and with and increased population, without an increased food supply, means that they'll soon have too many to feed. Some species will split their group. Others will kill part of their group. Others will start fighting with others of their same species but different group. Each one of these scenarios has the same effect; less population to feed.

People taking on different religions is the same thing as that, reacting to a natural law (the divine law) as they know how, (whether they're aware of that law or not.)

 

[roli]

To every single person who follows an organized religion, I ask two questions.

If you believe your religious convictions are correct, how can you be so certain about them when you know there are thousands of other religions out there in this world?

Let me put it this way. As much faith as you may have, as strongly as you believe your religion is the truth, as much as you think you know you're correct, I guarantee there is someone out there who believes in a different religion and is just as, if not more convinced they are right than you are. How do you justify your belief considering how stacked the odds are against you?

Second, to those who still believe in the religion they were raised in, don't you ever wonder that your beliefs are just an accident of geography?

If you were born in India, chances are very good you would be a Hindu. If you were born in the Middle East, chances are very good you would be a Muslim. If you were born in a Western country, chances are very good you would be a Christian.

Or, to take it one step further, if you were born in ancient Greece or Norway, there's no doubt in my mind you would believe in Zeus or Thor respectively.

For so many of you, your religion is an accident of where and what conditions you were born into. Are you so egotistical to think you are one of the lucky few who just happened to be born into the right religion? Because I've got news for you, so does everyone else.

If you still believe in the religion you were brought up in, I'd advise you to seriously, seriously consider why you believe what you do. It has nothing to do with if it's true or not. It's simply what you were taught. You believe what you do because it's what you were told to do.

Think about it.

If it was just about believing or not believing in some faith,than I would be confused ,frustrated and certainly not secure in what I am following as to be the truth,no matter how convinced I am in my mind or through the excellent teachings that are within those religions.
Because of the fact that there are so many religions
If it were'nt for the power, presence,person and manifestation of the Holy Spirit that a born again christian receives and expereinces at conversion, I would have just been following another religion with it's rules and nice moral teachings.
But when the Holy Spirit moves in and heaven enters the heart of man, he/they are changed .
It is the confirmation,guarantee, and absolute revalation of God through the Holy SPIRIT that assures a believer that what they have is the way, truth and life.

When you feel the weight of guilt from sins lifted and the security you have knowing that your name is written in heaven and that this world is not your home, but your just passing through this life and that when He returns you are going to be with him, it matters not what the world throws at you in the way of doubt, reason and whatever else there is that casts a shadow of uncertainty in our faith ,because Jesus through the Holy Spirit places the Holy Spirit within each believer and as scripture says so the believer expereinces, the holy spirit is given as a deposit or downpayment of what is to come.

If you don't have that absolute assurance there god or faith is right, you should seriously reconsider what it is you follow and if your trusting in the fact that your mere hoping will make it so,don't hold your breath.
2Cr 1:22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
Jhn 16:7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Jhn 14:26But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Eph 4:30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Jhn 16:13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.

You see the beleiver has so much more confirming them of their faith in the one true God and his Son Jesus Christ is the real and only one.

Can you believe your faith is the one that will take you to heaven ya, but according to God if you don't come through the son you come to where God is. End of story ,I guess unless one repents, but the chances are greater that the other faiths are wrong and Christ is the way,but that will only be confirmed to those who step over in faith and than and only than will God confirm who he is and where all other religions and dieties stand or fall,