10% of Europe will be Muslim in around 30 years

[Riverwolf]

That's a very strange stance for a Germanic pagan to take. Somehow I doubt that the Norse would've approved of dying out in their own homeland.

Well, I'm not Norse.

'Sides, the Old Tribes of Europe are already gone for the most part. They were either wiped out or absorbed in the various empires that have since popped up. William the Conqueror was pretty thorough at wiping out the Anglo-Saxons.

Personally, I like global diversity and the variance of the human species. Ethnic groups should be preserved.

Since when did the amount of melanin in the skin become the defining factor in an ethnicity?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yeah. 'Cos it'll sort itself out. Humans seem to thrive on upheaval, and Nature insists that we have those occasional upheavals. Nature rules, I guess.
But it'll take centuries for whites to become a minority.....let's hope that it all works out for the best. Many folks don't think that humanity will even survive that long....... that's our first problem.

No, it won't take centuries. It'll hit hard in Eastern Europe first by the end of the century.
World's Fastest-Shrinking Countries: Populations in decline - BusinessWeek
Europe Is Losing Its Soul | Commentary Magazine

Granted, it's not only a problem in Europe. Japan's dying out and China's population is going to collapse, too. This is not going to be a pretty period for humanity.

We've got lots of African Muslims. I met many of them over twenty years......they came on my training courses to qualify for Security Industry licences. They wanted to work. In the end I could tell which countries they came from by the shapes of their faces, etc ...... true. Over here they tend to work.

Nepalese? Wow! We respect the Nepalese so much! Over here they tend to be the smartest, most courteous and bravest security operatives that I ever met. If they can work, then they do work. But we have a long held resp[ect for Nepalese, and some of them earn automatic UK Nationality if they have served with our Army for a certain number of years.

If you ever come to England and want to see a rude, unemployed leech or two....... I will show you a few. They're mostly white....

I lived in a neighborhood full of them. I've never been around people who were so hateful just because my mom and I are Americans. It was very bizarre. Some of the African Muslims are nice, but not most of them in my experience.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Well, I'm not Norse.

'Sides, the Old Tribes of Europe are already gone for the most part. They were either wiped out or absorbed in the various empires that have since popped up.

But their descendants are still alive.

Since when did the amount of melanin in the skin become the defining factor in an ethnicity?

Is that a serious question? Do you know how ethnicity is defined? It's about the same as race. I think you meant "culture".

 

[Riverwolf]

But their descendants are still alive.

And which are our ancestors? I'm a Euromutt, myself, likely having ancestry from all over the subcontinent.

Don't forget that going back only 500 years, a modern individual might have thousands of individual ancestors.

Is that a serious question? Do you know how ethnicity is defined? It's about the same as race. I think you meant "culture".

Well, I regard race as a nonsensical concept to begin with, and thus deny it altogether. If ethnicity has to do with skin color, then I deny its legitimacy, as well. Europeans have only had light skin for a small portion of our history, anyway.

Culture is what's most important, and culture barely changes at all from region to region. Remember that many parts of Europe are melting pots, with major ancestries in immigrants who fully absorb into the native culture. Regard Ireland, France, and Russia. (The US is not a melting pot, so much as its a salad bowl).

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

And which are our ancestors? I'm a Euromutt, myself, likely having ancestry from all over the subcontinent.

Don't forget that going back only 500 years, a modern individual might have thousands of individual ancestors.

Even "Euromutts" are usually only mixed within a small range of related people. It's like, I doubt that you're Igbo, Ainu, Peruvian and Norwegian. "Supermixed" people like Wentworth Miller (and, I suppose, me to a lesser extent) are a rarity in this world.

Well, I regard race as a nonsensical concept to begin with, and thus deny it altogether. If ethnicity has to do with skin color, then I deny its legitimacy, as well. Europeans have only had light skin for a small portion of our history, anyway.

Except that race exists. I used to deny it, too, until I considered the biological data. There are variations within the human species and one expression of this are the different races. That's just scientific fact. It's what this means that it is up for debate. But it's not as simple as saying "white people", "black people", Asians", etc. The various groups within those monolithic concepts are where the real divisions come into play. Even in Europe, with its history of conquests and migrations, there is still a considerable phenotypical diversity. Not as much as Africa, of course, but still noteworthy.

Culture is what's most important, and culture barely changes at all from region to region. Remember that many parts of Europe are melting pots, with major ancestries in immigrants who fully absorb into the native culture. Regard Ireland, France, and Russia. (The US is not a melting pot, so much as its a salad bowl).

You're ignoring that most of the European peoples have a common Indo-European root as it is and, to my knowledge, have never undergone such large scale non-European immigration except for things like the Islamic conquests (ooh, irony). What I'm talking about is white Europeans being gradually replaced by Arabs, Pakistanis and North Africans. I highly doubt they're going to care very much for Indo-European civilization, if it does indeed get to that point. I can't think of one example where a group replaced another group in an area and continued the former group's civilization.

 

[Riverwolf]

Even "Euromutts" are usually only mixed within a small range of related people. It's like, I doubt that you're Igbo, Ainu, Peruvian and Norwegian. "Supermixed" people like Wentworth Miller (and, I suppose, me to a lesser extent) are a rarity in this world.

"Euro" means "Europe". I might have one or two ancestors from those non-European peoples, but it's not likely to be very significant.

However, having largely Irish ancestry automatically means likely having a significant Danish/Norwegian ancestry going back to Viking times. I also have English ancestry since my Irish great-great-grandmother married while in the US, someone who was descended from an English noble house. That means I have Welsh, Cornish, Saxon, probably Friis and Angle, Norman, and more Danish/Norwegian Viking at that time. I also have significant Greek ancestry, which could mean pretty much anything including having significant Roman, Turkish, and Persian ancestry when going back far enough.

That's why I feel it's a silly thing to worry about these things.

Except that race exists. I used to deny it, too, until I considered the biological data. There are variations within the human species and one expression of this are the different races. That's just scientific fact. It's what this means that it is up for debate. But it's not as simple as saying "white people", "black people", Asians", etc. The various groups within those monolithic concepts are where the real divisions come into play. Even in Europe, with its history of conquests and migrations, there is still a considerable phenotypical diversity. Not as much as Africa, of course, but still noteworthy.

But that's an entirely different matter, and I wouldn't label it as "race". Due to all the upheaval that began with Rome and then later the Migration Age, it basically means all of Europe's peoples are mutliracial.

You're ignoring that most of the European peoples have a common Indo-European root

Culturally and linguistically, not necessarily ethnically.

as it is and, to my knowledge, have never undergone such large scale non-European immigration except for things like the Islamic conquests (ooh, irony). What I'm talking about is white Europeans being gradually replaced by Arabs, Pakistanis and North Africans. I highly doubt they're going to care very much for Indo-European civilization, if it does indeed get to that point. I can't think of one example where a group replaced another group in an area and continued the former group's civilization.

I can think of four off the top of my head: France, Ireland, Russia, Egypt. I'd wager there's more.

However, I can only think of a single instance of an entire ethnic group being replaced by another: that of Europeans replacing the natives of North America. The reason there has nothing to do with the invasion directly, but because of the smallpox plague reducing the population so much that it was, in every way, apocalyptic. Makes the Black Death look like the annual flu. The USA is literally built on the remains of post-apocalyptia.

"Indo-European civilization" is a new one on me. I've never heard of such a thing.

 

[oldbadger]

No, it won't take centuries. It'll hit hard in Eastern Europe first by the end of the century.
Granted, it's not only a problem in Europe. Japan's dying out and China's population is going to collapse, too. This is not going to be a pretty period for humanity.

I don't know about other countries, but England is massively and dangerously overpopulated. When I was born the pop was about 45 million. Now it stands at 65 million.
Micro-processors and robotics have caused massive redundancy, and will continue to do so, I expect. If our pop would fall to 40 million then I can't see how that would be so bad. I do understand how a continuing decrease would cause havoc, but never so much as a continuing increase.

I lived in a neighborhood full of them. I've never been around people who were so hateful just because my mom and I are Americans. It was very bizarre. Some of the African Muslims are nice, but not most of them in my experience.

I believe you.
But I was telling the truth about most black Muslims and the Nepalese around here. I must dig out a photo of a typical Nepalese living near here and post it. You might be surprised
I understand that you are surrounded by hateful foreigners.
I live in Herne Bay. 3 miles down the coast is Whitstable, which has become massively fashionable as a weekend resort for wealthy Londoners. The house prices in Whitstable are about 70-100% higher than here for a similar property, and many Whitstable locals snub Herne Bay as low-life! At the same time, these same Whitstable locals snub the London weekenders that have brought so much wealth to their town. They call them 'DFL's (Down from London).
Don't you just love folks?
The capacity that humans can have to think of ways to separate, isolate and hate.... just amazes me.

 

[Tiapan]

Societies with an established culture and identity will absorb and assimilate migrants up to the point where this begins to fail. The next step is the "them and us" syndrome where immigrants are blamed for taking jobs, crime and violence etc. This gives rise to right wing anti immigrationists groups. If it continues general violence erupts sometimes leading to mass murders and civil war. Many immigrants come from cultures where contraception is illegal or unavailable this leads to a fairly visible massive population explosion in these groups especially in the first generations. This decreases as their standard of living increases as the need for many children diminishes because the survival rate is higher and social security is in place unlike the countries these people escape from. Part of the problem is the immigrants often bring the baggage they were escaping from, with them and we end up with episodes like the recent Charlie Embow incident.

My advice is be very guarded about the rate of immigration so as not to cross the violence threshold.

Europe should look at the Australian model of stopping the dangerous choice of boat people.

 

[Sakeenah]

Muslim population in Europe to reach 10% by 2050, new forecast shows | World news | The Guardian

What are the implications for a more Islamic Europe? Will Europe eventually become Muslim?

I haven't read all the posts..but I just wanted to comment on this.
If Europe will be 10% Muslim there are still 90% non Muslims which means majority is still non Muslim. So I don't think much will change..of course we don't know what the future holds.
The majority of muslims in Europe are immigrants meaning they came here to live a better life economically. Their purpose wasn't and isn't to take over Europe. They are normal citizens who want to keep their identity but build a better future for their children.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Muslim population in Europe to reach 10% by 2050, new forecast shows | World news | The Guardian

What are the implications for a more Islamic Europe? Will Europe eventually become Muslim?

Meh. I doubt it. Religion in general is quickly falling in Europe. Its also nearly impossible to predict religious trends that far ahead. Hell 30 years ago no one would be able to predict the rise in Islam we see today.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

10% is really small.
Only in Egypt there are already 10% Christians.