"10 Reasons God Loves Gay Christians" Time Magazine.

[Jeremiahcp]

10 Reasons God Loves Gay Christians

1. The term “homosexual” didn’t exist until 1892. Some modern Bible translations say that “homosexuals” will not inherit the kingdom of God, but neither the concept nor the word for people with exclusive same-sex attraction existed before the late 19th century. While the Bible rejects lustful same-sex behavior, that’s very different from a condemnation of all gay people and relationships.

2. Sexual orientation is a new concept—one that the Christian tradition hasn’t addressed. Many Christians draw on their faith’s traditions to shape their beliefs, but the concept of sexual orientation is new. Until recent decades, same-sex behavior was placed in the same category with gluttony or drunkenness — as a vice of excess anyone might be prone to — not as the expression of a sexual orientation. The Christian tradition has never spoken to the modern issue of LGBT people and their relationships.

3. Celibacy is a gift, not a mandate. The Bible honors celibacy as a good way of living — Jesus was celibate, after all — but it also makes clear that celibacy must be a voluntary choice. Requiring that all gay people remain celibate is at odds with the Bible’s teachings on celibacy, which are grounded Scripture's core affirmation that God's physical creation is good.

4. Condemning same-sex relationships is harmful to the LGBT community. Jesus taught in the Sermon on the Mount that good trees bear good fruit, while bad trees bear bad fruit. The church’s rejection of same-sex relationships has caused tremendous, needless suffering to the LGBT community—bad fruit. Those harmful consequences should make Christians open to reconsidering the church’s traditional teaching.

5. Sodom and Gomorrah involved an attempted gang rape, not a loving relationship. It’s commonly assumed that God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah out of his wrath against same-sex relations, but the only form of same-sex behavior described in the story is an attempted gang rape — nothing like a loving, committed relationship. The Bible explicitly condemns Sodom for its arrogance, inhospitality and apathy toward the poor — not for same-sex behavior.

6. The prohibitions in Leviticus don’t apply to Christians. Leviticus condemns male same-sex intercourse, but the entire Old Testament law code has never applied to Christians in light of Christ’s death. Leviticus also condemns eating pork, rabbit, or shellfish, cutting hair at the sides of one’s head, and having sex during a woman’s menstrual period — none of which Christians continue to observe.

7. Paul condemns same-sex lust, not love. Like other ancient writers, Paul described same-sex behavior as the result of excessive sexual desire on the part of people who could be content with opposite-sex relationships. He didn’t have long-term, loving same-sex relationships in view. And while he described same-sex behavior as “unnatural,” he also said men having long hair goes against nature, and most Christians read that as a reference to cultural conventions.

8. Marriage is about commitment. Marriage often involves procreation, but according to the New Testament, it’s based on something deeper: a lifelong commitment to a partner. Marriage is even compared to the relationship between Christ and the church, and while the language used is opposite-sex, the core principles apply just as well to same-sex couples.

9. Human beings are relational. From the beginning of Genesis, human beings are described as having a need for relationship, just as God himself is relational. Sexuality is a core part of what it means to be a relational person, and to condemn LGBT people’s sexuality outright damages their ability to be in relationship with all people — and with God.

10. Faithful Christians are already embracing LGBT brothers and sisters. Mainstream denominations like Presbyterians and Episcopalians now ordain openly gay clergy, and there are seeds of change in evangelical churches as well. This November, the Reformation Project will host a training conference for up to 900 LGBT-affirming Christians in Washington, D.C.—and the movement for change in conservative churches is just getting started.

Matthew Vines is the author of God and the Gay Christian and is the founder of The Reformation Project, a Bible-based non-profit organization that seeks to reform church teaching on sexual orientation and gender identity. Matthew lives in Wichita, Kansas.

What do you think of Mr.Vines's 10 reasons? Agree; disagree?

 

[pearl]

1) True. Homosexuality was not identified until the 19cent. Same sex behavior was practiced in the worship of idols, fertility gods. The biblical authors knew nothing of sexual orientation, and understood it as perversion. The abomination referred to is due to the worship of an idol.

5) True

6) Questionable

I think ever so slowly people are coming around to understand what true homosexuality is. For those who continure to believe that homosexuality is chosen, I'd like to ask the heterosexual when was it that she/he chose to be heterosexual.

 

[psychoslice]

If he didn't love them he wouldn't be worthy to be called God.

 

[omega2xx]

10 Reasons God Loves Gay Christians


What do you think of Mr.Vines's 10 reasons? Agree; disagree?

Mostly the usual liberal theology. God loves everyone. He doesn't love everything we do.

If God call homosexuality a sin, and He does, it would be wrong not to tell others what he says.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Mostly the usual liberal theology. God loves everyone. He doesn't love everything we do.

If God call homosexuality a sin, and He does, it would be wrong not to tell others what he says.

So you speak for God?

 

[omega2xx]

So you speak for God?

 

[omega2xx]

Did I say I did?

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Did I say I did?

Ya, you did.

 

[YmirGF]

Who cares what God thinks?

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Who cares what God thinks?

I think it is kind of clear that a lot of people care about what God "thinks".

 

[omega2xx]

Who cares what God thinks?

Everyone will when they hear the fat lady start to sing.

 

[YmirGF]

I think it is kind of clear that a lot of people care about what God "thinks".

Ah, the special snowflake syndrome. Gotcha.

Everyone will when they hear the fat lady start to sing.

Ah, the smug certainty.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Ah, the special snowflake syndrome. Gotcha.


Ah, the smug certainty.

Wouldn't have a God that condemns homosexuality without the two.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I'm surprised that nobody's noticed something peculiar about the thread subject: "10 Reasons God loves gay Christians..."

Are we to understand that God does not therefore, also care for Hindu, Muslim, Sikh or atheist gays? Have we found yet another way to divide us all?

 

[Ubon]

A man that lays with a man who is not a man should be put to death, is that not in the bible.

Only married people can have sex, another chapter states men marry woman therefore it is against same sex there to as they cannot marry.

I may not be againt homosexuals however the bible absolutely is.

 

[sayak83]

Who cares what God thinks?

It pretty clear from studies that God thinks whatever a person himself or herself believes. So "God thinks" is an excuse used by most people to elevate one's own opinion into an authority or justify what reasoning makes impossible to justify. (The process is unconscious, here, as in many cases, the self deceives itself. The best lie is the one you yourself believe in after all.)

Evidence

Psychological studies have found that people are always a tad egocentric when considering other people’s mindsets. They use their own beliefs as a starting point, which colours their final conclusions. Epley found that the same process happens, and then some, when people try and divine the mind of God. Their opinions on God’s attitudes on important social issues closely mirror their own beliefs. If their own attitudes change, so do their perceptions of what God thinks. They even use the same parts of their brain when considering God’s will and their own opinions.

In another study, Epley got people to manipulate themselves. He asked 59 people to write and perform a speech about the death penalty, which either matched their own beliefs or argued against them. The task shifted people’s attitudes towards the position in their speech, either strengthening or moderating their original views. And as in the other experiments, their shifting attitudes coincided with altered estimates of God’s attitudes (but not those of other people).

The brain scans found the same thing, particularly in a region called the medial prefrontal cortex (mPFC) that’s been linked to self-referential thinking. The mPFC is more active when we think about our own mindsets than those of others. Epley found that it was similarly abuzz when the recruits thought about their own attitude or God’s, but lower when they considered the average American

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

A man that lays with a man who is not a man should be put to death, is that not in the bible.

"a man who is not a man...?", yeah, the Bible would probably say something dumb like that.

Only married people can have sex, another chapter states men marry woman therefore it is against same sex there to as they cannot marry.

Now by "only married people can have sex, do you mean that unless you are married, you are unable to actually do the dirty deed? Or perhaps you mean that if you are not married (to whatever) all sex is evil. I offer you a challenge -- find me five adult men, unmarried men in North America who have not had sex. The hypocrisy is astounding, but, surprisingly, not in the least surprising.

I may not be againt homosexuals however the bible absolutely is.

But then, the Bible is against Canaanites (that'd be the Palestinians), Egyptians and touching your own willy until you get that pleasant feeling. I take it you've never done the latter, eh?

 

[Jeremiahcp]

I'm surprised that nobody's noticed something peculiar about the thread subject: "10 Reasons God loves gay Christians..."

Are we to understand that God does not therefore, also care for Hindu, Muslim, Sikh or atheist gays? Have we found yet another way to divide us all?

I think it just means the article is primary about Christian beliefs.

"Are we to understand that God does not therefore, also care for Hindu, Muslim, Sikh or atheist gays?"

I think you are adding implications that are not there. The title does not actually exclude anyone from God's love. If it did that it would read something like "10 Reasons God [only] loves"

"Have we found yet another way to divide us all?"

Ever stop to consider that you are finding ways to divide us, because you look for them?

 

[Jeremiahcp]

A man that lays with a man who is not a man should be put to death, is that not in the bible.

Only married people can have sex, another chapter states men marry woman therefore it is against same sex there to as they cannot marry.

I may not be againt homosexuals however the bible absolutely is.

Could you please actually cite the verses.

 

[Ubon]

"a man who is not a man...?", yeah, the Bible would probably say something dumb like that.

Now by "only married people can have sex, do you mean that unless you are married, you are unable to actually do the dirty deed? Or perhaps you mean that if you are not married (to whatever) all sex is evil. I offer you a challenge -- find me five adult en, unmarried men in North America who have not had sex. The hypocrisy is astounding, but, surprisingly, not in the least surprising.

But then, the Bible is against Canaanites (that'd be the Palestinians), Egyptians and touching your own willy until you get that pleasant feeling. I take it you've never done the latter, eh?

Are you refering to hypocrisy in the Bible or in me.