McBell
Unbound
If you really want to go down that particular tangent, I suggest you start a thread.
Talking about how god purposely and repeatedly set man up to fail should get its own thread.
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10 Teachings of Jesus Challenge
- Thread starter Straw Dog
- Start date
If you really want to go down that particular tangent, I suggest you start a thread.
Talking about how god purposely and repeatedly set man up to fail should get its own thread.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
I still didn't understand what you meant so I can't start a thread on that.
I suggest if you would start it because it is your point to be discussed and not mine.
I see.
When were we united? Why are we not united now?
Are we not enjoying the Garden of Life here?
McBell
Unbound
Your claim is that god did not change his mind.
That what appears to be god changing his mind is god following a plan.
If god was following a plan and not changing his mind, then god purposely set man up to fail in order to follow this plan.
McBell
Unbound
source please.
I ask because:
religion (n.)
c.1200, "state of life bound by monastic vows," also "conduct indicating a belief in a divine power," from Anglo-French religiun (11c.), Old French religion "piety, devotion; religious community," and directly from Latin religionem (nominative religio) "respect for what is sacred, reverence for the gods; conscientiousness, sense of right, moral obligation; fear of the gods; divine service, religious observance; a religion, a faith, a mode of worship, cult; sanctity, holiness," in Late Latin "monastic life" (5c.).
According to Cicero derived from relegere "go through again" (in reading or in thought), from re- "again" (see re-) + legere "read" (see lecture (n.)). However, popular etymology among the later ancients (Servius, Lactantius, Augustine) and the interpretation of many modern writers connects it with religare "to bind fast" (see rely), via notion of "place an obligation on," or "bond between humans and gods." In that case, the re- would be intensive. Another possible origin is religiens "careful," opposite of negligens. In English, meaning "particular system of faith" is recorded from c.1300; sense of "recognition of and allegiance in manner of life (perceived as justly due) to a higher, unseen power or powers" is from 1530s.
To hold, therefore, that there is no difference in matters of religion between forms that are unlike each other, and even contrary to each other, most clearly leads in the end to the rejection of all religion in both theory and practice. And this is the same thing as atheism, however it may differ from it in name. [Pope Leo XIII, Immortale Dei, 1885]
Source
c.1200, "state of life bound by monastic vows," also "conduct indicating a belief in a divine power," from Anglo-French religiun (11c.), Old French religion "piety, devotion; religious community," and directly from Latin religionem (nominative religio) "respect for what is sacred, reverence for the gods; conscientiousness, sense of right, moral obligation; fear of the gods; divine service, religious observance; a religion, a faith, a mode of worship, cult; sanctity, holiness," in Late Latin "monastic life" (5c.).
According to Cicero derived from relegere "go through again" (in reading or in thought), from re- "again" (see re-) + legere "read" (see lecture (n.)). However, popular etymology among the later ancients (Servius, Lactantius, Augustine) and the interpretation of many modern writers connects it with religare "to bind fast" (see rely), via notion of "place an obligation on," or "bond between humans and gods." In that case, the re- would be intensive. Another possible origin is religiens "careful," opposite of negligens. In English, meaning "particular system of faith" is recorded from c.1300; sense of "recognition of and allegiance in manner of life (perceived as justly due) to a higher, unseen power or powers" is from 1530s.
To hold, therefore, that there is no difference in matters of religion between forms that are unlike each other, and even contrary to each other, most clearly leads in the end to the rejection of all religion in both theory and practice. And this is the same thing as atheism, however it may differ from it in name. [Pope Leo XIII, Immortale Dei, 1885]
Source
Sabour
Well-Known Member
Its not that.
Every prophet's massage was for his time because societies differed and needs were different.
McBell
Unbound
Again, topic that deserves it own thread.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
Can you please be the one starting that thread?
You have the questions and know how you would direct those questions and asking.
If I make the thread I won't be asking I would be saying this is this and that is that because this is what I believe in. And one thing I learned on this forums is that I should never start a thread and its OP would be making what others view are "claims"
roger1440
I do stuff
I was referring to the Garden of Eden. The landlord evicted us cause of sin. I guess someone in the beginning didn't read the fine print on the lease.
Here's one thing Jesus taught about sin.
John 8:11 And she said, No one, Lord. And Jesus said to her, Neither do I give judgment. Go, and sin no more.
Nice lists Crossfire and ChristineES. Here is my list
1. Before Abraham was, I am
2. Jesus is the son of God, the Messiah, the Christ. See when he asked Peter, Who do you say I am?
3. No man comes to the Father, except by me - So Jesus is the only way of salvation
4. He who would save his life will lose it, He who loses his life for my sake will gain life
5. If you have faith then you can move mountains
6. Love God with all your heart, mind and strength, and Love your neighbor as yourself - and that
all the law hangs on these commandments
7. Do not seek acclaim, instead pray in private, give alms in private, fast without drawing
attention to yourself - and you will be rewarded by the Father for these things
Well I could list others, but seems like many getting repeated from others list, so I will stop with these. It was a pleasant exercise.
1. Before Abraham was, I am
2. Jesus is the son of God, the Messiah, the Christ. See when he asked Peter, Who do you say I am?
3. No man comes to the Father, except by me - So Jesus is the only way of salvation
4. He who would save his life will lose it, He who loses his life for my sake will gain life
5. If you have faith then you can move mountains
6. Love God with all your heart, mind and strength, and Love your neighbor as yourself - and that
all the law hangs on these commandments
7. Do not seek acclaim, instead pray in private, give alms in private, fast without drawing
attention to yourself - and you will be rewarded by the Father for these things
Well I could list others, but seems like many getting repeated from others list, so I will stop with these. It was a pleasant exercise.
roger1440
I do stuff
Anything that causes us to turn from God is sin.
In Mt is presented the Torah of the Messiah. In which Jesus did not change 'one iota'. Jesus is the embodiment of the Law and the Prophets.
I would not like to reword the original teachings of Jesus because they have been given/recorded in a very compact and secretive form already.
The words and teachings of Jesus appear in a distorted (Christian) form in Luke and Matthew, but have been reconstructed to resemble the original:
The original part of the Sayings Gospel Q – the sayings of the Tantric Jesus | jesussaying
The words and teachings of Jesus appear in a distorted (Christian) form in Luke and Matthew, but have been reconstructed to resemble the original:
The original part of the Sayings Gospel Q – the sayings of the Tantric Jesus | jesussaying
1robin
Christian/Baptist
It was a much better bargain than justice demanded and the only one that met both the requirements of love and justice.
1. That it is horrific.
2. We will all do it anyway.
3. We have nothing to repair the damage of our own, to satisfy justice.
4. Only God could make atonement for our actions.
5. Jesus was that atoning sacrifice.
6. We must accept him to partake of that provision.
Fraction from the book: The great Deceptions of the Catholic Church (origin from Slovenia, title: Cerkvena prevara z etiketo)
The Most Significant Differences in the teaching of Jesus and the teaching of the Catholic Church
Jesus did not establish a religious institution – he taught about inner belief. He gathered around himself a group of people, who became dedicated followers of his teaching, and did so without the ministry of priests and popes, and without church doctrine and rituals.
Jesus was a pacifist who encouraged people to love everything and everyone, even their enemies. The Catholic Church supports the death penalty and finds waging “righteous wars” acceptable. There are many passages in the Bible that incite people to violence and killing.
Jesus never named anyone God’s intermediary or representative. He encouraged people to internalize God’s teaching and to feel his guidance within their souls. Jesus promoted equality among all people, while the Church established a hierarchy, determined different official statuses and titles, built magnificent building, and clothed its clergy in finery. An interesting statement about the purpose of magnificent religious buildings can be found in the book Who Sits on Peter’s Throne? (Kdo sedi na Petrovem stolu, 1. del, Univerzalno življenje): “It is interesting to know what the clergy think about believers. Pope Nicholas V probably told more than he wanted, when he supposedly said: ‘To influence the minds of ignorant people and make them faithful followers, there must be something that holds their gaze. Faith based solely on doctrine is weak and hesitant. If the authority of the Holy See is evident in majestic buildings, which look like they were built by God himself, the belief of crowds will be strengthened.’”
Jesus taught people not to collect earthly treasures. On the other hand the Church often acquired them by illegal means and has not, to this day, returned anything that it had stolen. Has the Catholic Church’s attitude toward riches in any way helped resolve any economic crisis, abolish the unfair distribution of goods, prevent wars or alleviate hunger?
In the place of Christ’s teaching the Catholic Church offers people rituals, cults, sacraments, prayers to saints, the adoration of the Virgin Mary and the worship of holy relics – all this because the Church has nothing in common with the original teaching of Jesus, but is directly linked to various pagan cults.
Jesus clearly condemned priests and the sacrifice of animals. The Church tried to cover up the fact that Jesus was a vegetarian and that he spoke out on behalf of animals and their rights. The Church promotes sacrificing animals for the good of humans. The consequences of this are horrendous. Each year about 50 billion animals are slaughtered for human consumption. Millions of animals are killed in forests and fields, in laboratories, on fur farms, etc.
Jesus spoke in favor of gender equality, while the Catholic Church teaches that women are less worthy beings and therefore should be subordinated to men.
Jesus respected an individual’s free will and did not force his own beliefs onto others. The Catholic Church forces its believers into christening their children at birth, thus depriving them of the chance to decide freely if they wish to joint the Church.
Jesus spoke about a God of Love, but the Catholic Church promotes a God of Vengeance, who punishes those of his children, who do not obey church rules, by sending them to hell. This is a manipulation that enables the Church to instill feelings of guilt and worthlessness in its followers, thus negatively impacting their lives.
Jesus taught people how they can free themselves of suffering by living by God’s guidelines. On the other hand, the Church teaches the opposite, that people should suffer, because suffering is the easiest way to connect with Jesus. This sick, masochistic worship of pain and suffering is not what God or Jesus wanted for the human race.
Jesus spoke in easily understandable terms, but the Church uses complicated theological terms, a language that is full of contradictions, secrets, and is often illogical.
Jesus said: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. ” (John 14:6, NIV) Jesus did not say: “The Church is the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through the Church.” (Vlado Began, Nadškof Stes: Brez cerkve ne bi bilo krščanske vere, www.cerkev-ne.net.)
As we know, the Apostle Peter denied Jesus three times before the cock crowed. But Peter at least regretted his act, while the Church, so far, has not owned up to the fact that it has denied Jesus, and continues with this denial, since its teaching has nothing to do with him. We could say that in the Catholic Church the cock crows every day.
At the end we can say without doubt that the Catholic Church does not represent God, but something quite the opposite. The teaching of the Church is so starkly in controversy with the teaching of Jesus about God that its doctrine is often overstepped and subtly criticized even by popes and clergymen. More about this will be said in the following chapters.
The Most Significant Differences in the teaching of Jesus and the teaching of the Catholic Church
Jesus did not establish a religious institution – he taught about inner belief. He gathered around himself a group of people, who became dedicated followers of his teaching, and did so without the ministry of priests and popes, and without church doctrine and rituals.
Jesus was a pacifist who encouraged people to love everything and everyone, even their enemies. The Catholic Church supports the death penalty and finds waging “righteous wars” acceptable. There are many passages in the Bible that incite people to violence and killing.
Jesus never named anyone God’s intermediary or representative. He encouraged people to internalize God’s teaching and to feel his guidance within their souls. Jesus promoted equality among all people, while the Church established a hierarchy, determined different official statuses and titles, built magnificent building, and clothed its clergy in finery. An interesting statement about the purpose of magnificent religious buildings can be found in the book Who Sits on Peter’s Throne? (Kdo sedi na Petrovem stolu, 1. del, Univerzalno življenje): “It is interesting to know what the clergy think about believers. Pope Nicholas V probably told more than he wanted, when he supposedly said: ‘To influence the minds of ignorant people and make them faithful followers, there must be something that holds their gaze. Faith based solely on doctrine is weak and hesitant. If the authority of the Holy See is evident in majestic buildings, which look like they were built by God himself, the belief of crowds will be strengthened.’”
Jesus taught people not to collect earthly treasures. On the other hand the Church often acquired them by illegal means and has not, to this day, returned anything that it had stolen. Has the Catholic Church’s attitude toward riches in any way helped resolve any economic crisis, abolish the unfair distribution of goods, prevent wars or alleviate hunger?
In the place of Christ’s teaching the Catholic Church offers people rituals, cults, sacraments, prayers to saints, the adoration of the Virgin Mary and the worship of holy relics – all this because the Church has nothing in common with the original teaching of Jesus, but is directly linked to various pagan cults.
Jesus clearly condemned priests and the sacrifice of animals. The Church tried to cover up the fact that Jesus was a vegetarian and that he spoke out on behalf of animals and their rights. The Church promotes sacrificing animals for the good of humans. The consequences of this are horrendous. Each year about 50 billion animals are slaughtered for human consumption. Millions of animals are killed in forests and fields, in laboratories, on fur farms, etc.
Jesus spoke in favor of gender equality, while the Catholic Church teaches that women are less worthy beings and therefore should be subordinated to men.
Jesus respected an individual’s free will and did not force his own beliefs onto others. The Catholic Church forces its believers into christening their children at birth, thus depriving them of the chance to decide freely if they wish to joint the Church.
Jesus spoke about a God of Love, but the Catholic Church promotes a God of Vengeance, who punishes those of his children, who do not obey church rules, by sending them to hell. This is a manipulation that enables the Church to instill feelings of guilt and worthlessness in its followers, thus negatively impacting their lives.
Jesus taught people how they can free themselves of suffering by living by God’s guidelines. On the other hand, the Church teaches the opposite, that people should suffer, because suffering is the easiest way to connect with Jesus. This sick, masochistic worship of pain and suffering is not what God or Jesus wanted for the human race.
Jesus spoke in easily understandable terms, but the Church uses complicated theological terms, a language that is full of contradictions, secrets, and is often illogical.
Jesus said: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. ” (John 14:6, NIV) Jesus did not say: “The Church is the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through the Church.” (Vlado Began, Nadškof Stes: Brez cerkve ne bi bilo krščanske vere, www.cerkev-ne.net.)
As we know, the Apostle Peter denied Jesus three times before the cock crowed. But Peter at least regretted his act, while the Church, so far, has not owned up to the fact that it has denied Jesus, and continues with this denial, since its teaching has nothing to do with him. We could say that in the Catholic Church the cock crows every day.
At the end we can say without doubt that the Catholic Church does not represent God, but something quite the opposite. The teaching of the Church is so starkly in controversy with the teaching of Jesus about God that its doctrine is often overstepped and subtly criticized even by popes and clergymen. More about this will be said in the following chapters.