13:7 implies there is a guide living right now.

[InvestigateTruth]

Okay, now at least you are discussing the verse. The hadiths are being denied by you about this, but that's okay at least you are discussing the verse.

The problem with "only" extending to "and for every a guide" is that it contradicts the fact how he is only a warner stated through out the Quran. The guidance of God is always said not to be guarantee for disbelievers. This is why it makes sense by the context, it's saying, for every people is a guide. Because the Inama is always saying he can't guide them, he can only warn through out the Quran, this is a big theme.

The "only" doesn't make sense to include guide because that it's no longer about in context of only warning disbelievers through such signs. In this case, let's assume, the only ignores the context of sign asked for. Let's ignore even the plenty of mentions that Mohammad (s) can't guide them only warn them through out Quran. In this case, it would deny he is a revealer of scripture. It would deny his Nubuwa. It would also deny he is a witness on earth to their deeds. Therefore the Inama should not be seen in absolute terms with his role to humanity. Rather the Inama is saying he is saying he is only a warner as in he can't guide them or guarantee their guidance. The ball is in their court.

The "and for every people is a guide" is saying the warner is such a guide, but he can't guide them. This meaning is the clear meaning and the other meaning is impossible for how it's used through out Quran and also contradicts it even if we ignore context, ignore hadiths about it, ignore the usage of "You are only a warner" through out Quran, it still contradicts because it would mean he is not a Nabi because you can be a warner and guide without being a Nabi as Imams were.

Ok, I don't have a problem accepting it, as
Saying "for every people, there is a guide"

Now, the term "people" in this verse is قوم
For example Arabs are a قوم. Bani-Israel is another قوم. Persians are another قوم.

For every قوم there is a guide, meaning, for Arabs, there is a guide, for persians there is a guide, for Bani-Israel, there is a guide, etc.

Is my understanding correct so far?

 

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Ok, I don't have a problem accepting it, as
Saying "for every people, there is a guide"

Now, the term "people" in this verse is قوم
For example Arabs are a قوم. Bani-Israel is another قوم. Persians are another قوم.

For every قوم there is a guide, meaning, for Arabs, there is a guide, for persians there is a guide, for Bani-Israel, there is a guide, etc.

Is my understanding correct so far?

There are many guides for every people in your scenario. Plus, it's on topic of miracles being performed by a guide.

 

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وَجَعَلْنَا مِنْهُمْ أَئِمَّةً يَهْدُونَ بِأَمْرِنَا لَمَّا صَبَرُوا ۖ وَكَانُوا بِآيَاتِنَا يُوقِنُونَ | When they had been patient and had conviction in Our signs, We appointed amongst them imams to guide [the people] by Our command. | As-Sajda : 24

وَإِذِ ابْتَلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمَاتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ ۖ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا ۖ قَالَ وَمِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِي ۖ قَالَ لَا يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ | When his Lord tested Abraham with certain words and he fulfilled them, He said, ‘I am making you the Imam of mankind.’ Said he, ‘And from among my descendants?’ He said, ‘My pledge does not extend to the unjust.’ | Al-Baqara : 124

وَجَعَلْنَاهُمْ أَئِمَّةً يَهْدُونَ بِأَمْرِنَا وَأَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْهِمْ فِعْلَ الْخَيْرَاتِ وَإِقَامَ الصَّلَاةِ وَإِيتَاءَ الزَّكَاةِ ۖ وَكَانُوا لَنَا عَابِدِينَ | We made them imams, guiding by Our command, and We revealed to them [concerning] the performance of good deeds, the maintenance of prayers, and the giving of zakat, and they used to worship Us. | Al-Anbiyaa : 73

 

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The other verses that compliments 13:7 in the same Surah are:

وَيَقُولُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لَوْلَا أُنْزِلَ عَلَيْهِ آيَةٌ مِنْ رَبِّهِ ۗ قُلْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُضِلُّ مَنْ يَشَاءُ وَيَهْدِي إِلَيْهِ مَنْ أَنَابَ | The faithless say, ‘Why has not some sign been sent down to him from his Lord?’ Say, ‘Indeed Allah leads astray whomever He wishes, and guides to it/himself those who turned penitently [to Him] | Ar-Ra'd : 27

وَلَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا رُسُلًا مِنْ قَبْلِكَ وَجَعَلْنَا لَهُمْ أَزْوَاجًا وَذُرِّيَّةً ۚ وَمَا كَانَ لِرَسُولٍ أَنْ يَأْتِيَ بِآيَةٍ إِلَّا بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ ۗ لِكُلِّ أَجَلٍ كِتَابٌ | Certainly We have sent apostles before you, and We appointed for them wives and descendants; and an apostle may not bring a sign except by Allah’s leave. There is a written [ordinance] for every term: | Ar-Ra'd : 38

13:38 says it's only by God's permission these signs happen, while, 13:27 shows guidance will take place by God with respect to those who turn to God often. 13:7 show every people have access to such signs because every people have a guide who can perform it. Combining it all together, it means, for people who turn to God often, they will be be guided by God through the guide of time including being shown such miracles and signs.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

There are many guides for every people in your scenario. Plus, it's on topic of miracles being performed by a guide.

Well, yes, there are.

The thing is that, the verse says "for every people there is a guide"

But, it does not say, at any point of time, there is a guide among every People.
It does not say في كل زمان or anything to conclude that this verse means all the time.

So, for example, Bani Isreal had their guide. It was Moses, and the Bani Israel Prophets and Jesus.

Then, it was time for the Arabs, their guidance started by Muhammad and continued after Him, through the Imams, till the 11th Imam. Then your Imam passed away (disappeared).
Because the guidance was completed.
Then there was a time without Guide. Because it was the time for test.
It seems to be like the school. You have your teacher, but when its time for the Test, you don't have a teacher to teach and guide you anymore.
So, Muslims were given their lessons through the Guides. It was time for testing them, so, it may be known who truely follows. Until, when Mahdi comes, which is another great test, to recognize Him.

 

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Well, yes, there are.

The thing is that, the verse says "for every people there is a guide"

But, it does not say, at any point of time, there is a guide among every People.
It does not say في كل زمان or anything to conclude that this verse means all the time.

So, for example, Bani Isreal had their guide. It was Moses, and the Bani Israel Prophets and Jesus.

Then, it was time for the Arabs, their guidance started by Muhammad and continued after Him, through the Imams, till the 11th Imam. Then your Imam passed away (disappeared).
Because the guidance was completed.
Then there was a time without Guide. Because it was the time for test.
It seems to be like the school. You have your teacher, but when its time for the Test, you don't have a teacher to teach and guide you anymore.
So, Muslims were given their lessons through the Guides. It was time for testing them, so, it may be known who truely follows. Until, when Mahdi comes, which is another great test, to recognize Him.

So your saying every Ahlulbayt is the Guide? Sorry but that makes no sense in context of the signs asked for which Mohammad (s) is but a warner regarding.

Allah (swt) is revealing this with the context of signs which 13:38 and 13:37 compliment it. It's obvious it's saying the guide will perform such miracles for those who turn to God and God will guide those who turn to God to himself through this guide.

 

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What also compliments the meaning of "there is for every a guide" :

وَيَقُولُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لَسْتَ مُرْسَلًا ۚ قُلْ كَفَىٰ بِاللَّهِ شَهِيدًا بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَكُمْ وَمَنْ عِنْدَهُ عِلْمُ الْكِتَابِ | The faithless say, ‘You have not been sent [by Allah].’ Say, ‘Allah suffices as a witness between me and you, and he who possesses the knowledge of the Book.’ | Ar-Ra'd : 43

And says:

وَلَوْ أَنَّ قُرْآنًا سُيِّرَتْ بِهِ الْجِبَالُ أَوْ قُطِّعَتْ بِهِ الْأَرْضُ أَوْ كُلِّمَ بِهِ الْمَوْتَىٰ ۗ بَلْ لِلَّهِ الْأَمْرُ جَمِيعًا ۗ أَفَلَمْ يَيْأَسِ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَنْ لَوْ يَشَاءُ اللَّهُ لَهَدَى النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا ۗ وَلَا يَزَالُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا تُصِيبُهُمْ بِمَا صَنَعُوا قَارِعَةٌ أَوْ تَحُلُّ قَرِيبًا مِنْ دَارِهِمْ حَتَّىٰ يَأْتِيَ وَعْدُ اللَّهِ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يُخْلِفُ الْمِيعَادَ | And even if it were a Quran whereby the mountains could be moved, or the earth could be toured, or the dead could be spoken to.... Indeed, all dispensation belongs to Allah. Have not the faithful yet realised that had Allah wished He would have guided mankind all together? The faithless will continue to be visited by catastrophes because of their doings—or they will land near their habitations—until Allah’s promise comes to pass. Indeed Allah does not break His promise. | Ar-Ra'd : 31

 

[InvestigateTruth]

So your saying every Ahlulbayt is the Guide? Sorry but that makes no sense in context of the signs asked for which Mohammad (s) is but a warner regarding.

Allah (swt) is revealing this with the context of signs which 13:38 and 13:37 compliment it. It's obvious it's saying the guide will perform such miracles for those who turn to God and God will guide those who turn to God to himself through this guide.

عن أبي الاسلمي ، عن النبي « إنما أنت منذر ولكل قوم هاد » قال : فوضع يده على منكب علي فقال : هذا الهادي من بعدى

Narrated by Abu Al-Aslami, from the Prophet (PBUH): "You are only a warner, and for every people, there is a guide." Then, the Prophet (PBUH) placed his hand on Ali's shoulder and said: "This is the guide after me."

عن الفضيل قال سألت أبا عبد الله عليه‌السلام عن قول الله عز وجل : « وَلِكُلِّ قَوْمٍ هادٍ » [١] فقال كل إمام هاد للقرن الذي هو فيهم.

Al-Fudhayl said: I asked Abu Abdullah (Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq) about the saying of Allah the Almighty: "And for every people, there is a guide." (Quran 13:7). He replied: "Every Imam is a guide for the generation in which he lives."



I thought you are aware of these Hadithes.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

What also compliments the meaning of "there is for every a guide" :

I don't know what you mean here.

وَيَقُولُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لَسْتَ مُرْسَلًا ۚ قُلْ كَفَىٰ بِاللَّهِ شَهِيدًا بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَكُمْ وَمَنْ عِنْدَهُ عِلْمُ الْكِتَابِ | The faithless say, ‘You have not been sent [by Allah].’ Say, ‘Allah suffices as a witness between me and you, and he who possesses the knowledge of the Book.’ | Ar-Ra'd : 43

In this verse "He who possess the knowledge of the Book" is allusion to Ali, based on Hadithes.

And says:

وَلَوْ أَنَّ قُرْآنًا سُيِّرَتْ بِهِ الْجِبَالُ أَوْ قُطِّعَتْ بِهِ الْأَرْضُ أَوْ كُلِّمَ بِهِ الْمَوْتَىٰ ۗ بَلْ لِلَّهِ الْأَمْرُ جَمِيعًا ۗ أَفَلَمْ يَيْأَسِ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَنْ لَوْ يَشَاءُ اللَّهُ لَهَدَى النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا ۗ وَلَا يَزَالُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا تُصِيبُهُمْ بِمَا صَنَعُوا قَارِعَةٌ أَوْ تَحُلُّ قَرِيبًا مِنْ دَارِهِمْ حَتَّىٰ يَأْتِيَ وَعْدُ اللَّهِ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يُخْلِفُ الْمِيعَادَ | And even if it were a Quran whereby the mountains could be moved, or the earth could be toured, or the dead could be spoken to.... Indeed, all dispensation belongs to Allah. Have not the faithful yet realised that had Allah wished He would have guided mankind all together? The faithless will continue to be visited by catastrophes because of their doings—or they will land near their habitations—until Allah’s promise comes to pass. Indeed Allah does not break His promise. | Ar-Ra'd : 31

I don't know what you are trying to prove here.

 

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If was "guide" referring to each Ahlulbayt (a), then it should be plural "You" to Mohammad (s) otherwise, the warner and you being singular, it's obvious that the guide is singular and in reference to Mohammad (s) in his time, then Ali (a) after him, then Hassan (a), etc, all the way to the 12th Imam (a).

 

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عن أبي الاسلمي ، عن النبي « إنما أنت منذر ولكل قوم هاد » قال : فوضع يده على منكب علي فقال : هذا الهادي من بعدى

Narrated by Abu Al-Aslami, from the Prophet (PBUH): "You are only a warner, and for every people, there is a guide." Then, the Prophet (PBUH) placed his hand on Ali's shoulder and said: "This is the guide after me."

عن الفضيل قال سألت أبا عبد الله عليه‌السلام عن قول الله عز وجل : « وَلِكُلِّ قَوْمٍ هادٍ » [١] فقال كل إمام هاد للقرن الذي هو فيهم.

Al-Fudhayl said: I asked Abu Abdullah (Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq) about the saying of Allah the Almighty: "And for every people, there is a guide." (Quran 13:7). He replied: "Every Imam is a guide for the generation in which he lives."



I thought you are aware of these Hadithes.

I'm aware of these hadiths. And I also argued through reasoning and Quran why they are true.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

If was "guide" referring to each Ahlulbayt (a), then it should be plural "You" to Mohammad (s) otherwise, the warner and you being singular, it's obvious that the guide is singular and in reference to Mohammad (s) in his time, then Ali (a) after him, then Hassan (a), etc, all the way to the 12th Imam (a).

Because All Imams are spiritually One and the same, it is said "singular" here.

Guide can be Ali, Hassan, Hussein,..etc. the guide here is "Imam".

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Allah (swt) is revealing this with the context of signs which 13:38 and 13:37 compliment it.

How verse 13:7 and 13:8 are related?



ٱللَّهُ یَعۡلَمُ مَا تَحۡمِلُ كُلُّ أُنثَىٰ وَمَا تَغِیضُ ٱلۡأَرۡحَامُ وَمَا تَزۡدَادُۚ وَكُلُّ شَیۡءٍ عِندَهُۥ بِمِقۡدَارٍ

"God knows what every female bears and what the wombs carry for a shorter or a longer term. And everything with Him has a due measure."


It was talking about "every people has a guide", now next verse all the sudden talks about "what every female bears and how long it will take".

How are these verses related to each other?

 

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Because All Imams are spiritually One and the same, it is said "singular" here.

Guide can be Ali, Hassan, Hussein,..etc. the guide here is "Imam".

It would've implied that if plural you with singular warner, but the way it's stated it's clear the warner refers to Mohammad (S) and each people have a guide means the guide is Mohammad (a) and then Ali (a) after him is the guide.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

It would've implied that if plural you with singular warner, but the way it's stated it's clear the warner refers to Mohammad (S) and each people have a guide means the guide is Mohammad (a) and then Ali (a) after him is the guide.

Then you reject the Hadithes.