14 centuries old recipe to stop pandemic of Corona-virus?

[ecco]

At last, we have to stop here and ask:

How an illiterate person describe a 14 centuries old recipe to stop pandemic of Corona-virus?

At last, we have to stop here and ask: Why did your god forbid the eating of pork? Did he not know that pork is completely safe if handled and cooked properly? Couldn't your god have just told people how to handle pork instead of forbidding it?

Did Allah just want Christians and atheists to enjoy bacon and ribs? I

 

[Limo]

Comparison between Christian and Islamic Hygiene in Medieval

Unfortunately, some people here commented that these Islamic hygiene practices are normal and some advised to read.

So, I did read and collected interesting information. The study is a comparison of Christian Europe in 10th century compared to Islamic Europe in 9th century.

The person who developed Hygiene for Islamic Europe in Andalusia was actually from Baghdad in Iraq. So whatever he has achieved, it was a normal practice in Baghdad or at least a development of it.

In summary, I used 2 different groups of evidences:

· First Group : Western describing the situation in Europe

o Early Christianity impact on Hygiene in Europe
o Modern Study of history of Hygiene practice in west​

· Second Group : biography of an Islamic hygiene role model and the other is a Moslem’s account on Europe hygiene:

o Ahmed ibn Fadhlan account on Europe in early 10th century
o Hygiene role model in Europe (Andalusian) in 9th century​

Early Christianity evidences:

· St. Jerome (347-420 CE ) once said: "He who has bathed in Christ has no need of a second bath."

o Christian ascetics took this axiom seriously.
o The Christians of the time avoided bathing specifically because they considered frequent cleansing as a sign of vanity, which was a "sin"
o The Church in Spain, for example, regularly encouraged believers to avoid bathing to better distinguish themselves from the hated Moors(Moslems) and Jews.
o They practiced the ritual mortification of the flesh by refusing to wash their bodies. They wore the same garments every day until they were reduced to rags.
o The stench that was produced was known by Christians as alousia or the "odor of sanctity". Saints like Agnes and Margaret of Hungary were venerated by Christians because of their rejection of physical hygiene.
o In the Rule of St. Benedict of Nursia, only those monks who were sick and infirm were allowed to bathe. Monks in good health and the young were encouraged to wallow in their own filth and excrement.​

· From Viscuso, Patrick.Greek Orthodox Theological Review; Brookline Vol. 46, Iss. 1/2, (Spring 2001): 75-88. A chapter titles : Cleanliness, Not a Condition for Godliness: Alousia as a Canonical Requirement in Late Byzantium:​

o “Late Byzantine canonical regulations stipulate that prior to and after celebrating the Eucharist, presbyters may not cleans themselves or bathe. as an ascetic usage, from bathing or abstinence from cleansing is viewed as an element of Byzantine piety frequently found in monastic writings.”​

Modern sources:

Katherine Ashenburg in her book The Dirt on Clean: An Unsanitized History: copied from commentry Washing our dirty history in public:

o Dirtiness became a uniquely Christian badge of holiness with certain saints positively revelling in their filth.
o St Godric walked from England to Jerusalem without washing or changing his clothes.
o St Agnes never once washed, nor did St Jerome who warned that hot baths stimulated sexual urges and were a particular menace to virgins. He declared that 'a clean body and a clean dress means an unclean soul'. Everyone teemed with life, nits and fleas.
o St Thomas Aquinas gladly approved the use of incense in churches to mask the nasty niffs.
o St Bernard pointed out, 'where all stink, no one smells,'
o Move forward a few centuries to the French and English courts, where costly velvet and silk clothes (never laundered) concealed bodies that went unwashed from one year to the next. When sweaty or greasy the English aristocracy simply changed into fresh linen undergarments to absorb bodily secretions. Elizabeth I was unusual for bathing once a month, as she said, 'whether I need it or not'.
o James I only every washed his fingers. Henry IV of France was notorious for his terrible BO, as was his son who boasted: 'I take after my father, I smell of armpits.' Everyone complained about Louis XIV's halitosis, his long-suffering mistress soaking herself in self-defensive clouds of perfume
o Start Bathing : By the 1800s the 'all-over-wash' concept, called 'the French bath' in England, 'the English wash' in France, was catching on. In 1861 a doctor wrote an article - 'Baths And How To Take Them' - offering professional guidance for novices. Dickens took a daily cold bath and installed a cold shower.
o When Queen Victoria moved into Buckingham Palace in 1837 she had no bathroom but bathed in a portable tub. The upper-classes considered new fangled 'mod cons' as vulgar and middle-class. Happy with their freezing 40-room mansions they had chamber pots galore but no loos or bathrooms.​

Second Group

o Ahmed bin Fadhlan 922 CE visited Europe and wrote:

o 83. They are the filthiest of God's creatures. They have no modesty in defecation and urination, nor do they wash after pollution from orgasm, nor do they wash their hands after eating. Thus they are like wild asses.
o 84. Every day they must wash their faces and heads and this they do in the dirtiest and filthiest fashion possible: to wit, every morning a girl servant brings a great basin of water; she offers this to her master and he washes his hands and face and his hair -- he washes it and combs it out with a comb in the water; then he blows his nose and spits into the basin. When he has finished, the servant carries the basin to the next person, who does likewise. She carries the basin thus to all the household in turn, and each blows his nose, spits, and washes his face and hair in it.​

o Abu l-Hasan 'Ali Ibn Nafi' or Ziryab (789–857 CE) Hygiene role model in Europe Ziryab settled in Córdoba in Spain

o Was a singer, oud player, composer, poet, and teacher who lived and worked in Iraq, Northern Africa, and Andalusia of the medieval Islamic period. He was also known as a polymath, with knowledge in astronomy, geography, meteorology, botanics, cosmetics, culinary art and fashion.

o Ziryab started a vogue by changing clothes according to the weather and season

o He suggested different clothing for mornings, afternoons and evenings.

o Henri Terrasse, a French historian of North Africa, commented that legend attributes winter and summer clothing styles and "the luxurious dress of the Orient" found in Morocco today to Ziryab, but argues that "Without a doubt, a lone man could not achieve this transformation. It is rather a development which shook the Muslim world in general ..

o He created a new type of deodorant to get rid of bad odors

o promoted morning and evening baths

o Ziryab is thought to have invented an early toothpaste

o Ziryab had his hair cut with bangs down to his eyebrows and straight across his forehead, "new short hairstyles leaving the neck, ears and eyebrows free,"

o He popularized shaving among men and set new haircut trends.

o Royalty used to wash their hair with rose water, but Ziryab introduced the use of salt and fragrant oils to improve the hair's condition

o revolutionized the local cuisine:

§ by introducing new fruit and vegetables such as asparagus,

§ by introducing the three-course meal served on leathern tablecloths, insisting that meals should be served in three separate courses consisting of soup, the main course, and dessert

§ He also introduced the use of crystal as a container for drinks, which was more effective than metal. ​

 

[Limo]

At last, we have to stop here and ask: Why did your god forbid the eating of pork? Did he not know that pork is completely safe if handled and cooked properly? Couldn't your god have just told people how to handle pork instead of forbidding it?

Did Allah just want Christians and atheists to enjoy bacon and ribs? I

We Moslems are submitted to Allah regardless what you and other think. Allah told us that any Halal is because it's good and vice versa regardless of what you're saying.

Whatever scientific reasons I tell, it'll be inconvenient to you but I'll tell you 2 things:

• Pork flesh is very near to human flesh
• It's known in old world that pork makes human not jealous on his/her spouse and children.

BTW, Almaseeh was practicing the law, he never eat pork.
Pauline Christianity eats pork bases on Paul's opinion but not Almaseeh's opinion.

 

[ecco]

Whatever scientific reasons I tell, it'll be inconvenient to you but I'll tell you 2 things:

• Pork flesh is very near to human flesh
• It's known in old world that pork makes human not jealous on his/her spouse and children.

Do you really believe that stating "reasons" like "pork makes humans jealous" convinces anyone of the sanity of religious myths. Quite the opposite is true.

You can believe your old wives' tales. I take science and have bacon and eggs for breakfast, a BLT for lunch, and BBQd ribs for dinner. If that doesn't make you jealous, oh well, more for me.

 

[ecco]

We Moslems are submitted to Allah regardless what you and other think. Allah told us that any Halal is because it's good and vice versa regardless of what you're saying.

The reality of the situation is that an ignorant man followed some 5000-year-old Jewish traditions and banned pork. That's your problem, not mine.

 

[Limo]

Evidence of hand washing? Bathing? Containing sick people? Use Google, for Allah's sake.

Ritual washing in Judaism - Wikipedia

Lavabo - Wikipedia

Bathing - Wikipedia



Look, your knowledge of history is lacking. You made a claim about medieval Christians. Your claim was false.

“The very sight of her hands did almost turn my stomach”: a brief history of hand-washing

Did People in Medieval Times Really Not Bathe?

This took very little time to verify. Please educate yourself.



What book do you think is "mine?" I'm not a Christian.

You pushed me to collect some material in the post #42
What I can tell is Europe were "wild asses" as per Ahmed ibn Fadhln `while Islamic Europe have fashion, cosmetics, and luxury
Comparison between Christian and Islamic Hygiene in Medieval

Medieval Islamic societies were certainly competitive with Christian ones, but I'd hardly say your team was the clear leader for 11 centuries. Again, please read some secular history.

I did ready, do you?
Moslems started defeating Byzantine in 7th century, ended Byzantine Empire when opened Constantinople in 14th century, The last invasion in Europe was 1672–1676: Poland-Lithuania.
So from 7th century till 17th century Islamic Empires has no competition even from any European force except for fall of Andalusia. It's 10 centuries.
Another one century when Ottman empire had a lot of wars and started to ewaken.
the first defeat for Ottman empire was 1683–1699: Great Turkish War – Loss of Hungary and the Morea.

Moral civilization left the authoritarian theocracies of the Islamic Middle Ages in the dust long ago. We're happier with egalitarian secular democracy, thanks.

What in the world makes you think the world will go "upside down" in precisely 50 years? And what does that even mean?

Islamic empire doesn't know "authoritarian theocracies " this was only in European.

It's complicated. There are many factors affect the collapse of western civilization internal and external.
Internal bad moral and external injustice and user brutal power.
Historically, civilizations have a life cycle. Many thinkers wrote about declining of western civilization.
There are also religion belief, Moslems, Jews,and Christians believe that there is great war.
I think everyone feel it.

 

[Limo]

Do you really believe that stating "reasons" like "pork makes humans jealous" convinces anyone of the sanity of religious myths. Quite the opposite is true.

You can believe your old wives' tales. I take science and have bacon and eggs for breakfast, a BLT for lunch, and BBQd ribs for dinner. If that doesn't make you jealous, oh well, more for me.

Good for you. Keep going. I didn't ask you to stop.

 

[Limo]

The reality of the situation is that an ignorant man followed some 5000-year-old Jewish traditions and banned pork. That's your problem, not mine.

Exactly, this is not for you.

 

[danieldemol]

...Quran is alive miracle that has signs to science, or at least never contradicts science...

Actually there is a list of contradictions to science available on the internet.

From Scientific Errors in the Qur'an - WikiIslam

‘Some will contest these numerous errors in the Qur'an by appealing to metaphor, alternative meanings, or phenomenological interpretations of the text.

Even supposing alternative explanations were possible in every case, the problem would remain that the Qur’an contains no obvious attempts to differentiate its understanding of the natural world and historical events from the common folklore and unscientific misconceptions of the people living in 7th century Arabia.

An all-powerful, all-knowing, perfect communicator would have been able to foresee how such misleading statements would be understood by future generations and the doubts and confusions they would cause.

Such overwhelming weakness in the Qur'an when we should expect perfection is already reason enough to reject any claims to its divine authorship.’

 

[Milton Platt]

While some spiritual practices abandoned self-care and cleanliness to attain high spirituality, Islam made it obligatory to clean oneself in preparation for daily prayers.

Caring for one’s hygiene is not only deemed a good habit in Islam but also rendered into rituals that constitute part of the faith itself. Also, while Muslim cleaning himself by practicing Islam; he gets good deeds points (Hasanat) in his personal scorecard. As per Islam, everyone has a scorecard contains good (Hasanat) and bad deeds (Sayiat). At the judge day, only people who have good deeds greater than bad deeds will enter Paradise.


Allah said in Quran 2:22 "Allah loves those who are constantly repentant and loves those who purify themselves."

21:107 "And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds."

Prophet Mohamed said “Cleanliness is part of faith"



Islam’s recipe to stop pandemic of Corona-virus and any other virus has several aspects starting from stopping the spread, optimistic to find a cure, must have the cure, to hygienic practices.


Prophet Mohammed recipe includes:


First: stop the spread of the disease:

• Lockdown the area: Prophet Muhammad said: "If you hear of an outbreak of plague in a land, do not enter it; but if the plague outbreaks out in a place while you are in it, do not leave that place."
• Separate sick people: He also said: "Those with contagious diseases should be kept away from those who are healthy."
• Don’t spread the disease : When coughing, sneezing or yawning, a Muslim covers his mouth and nose with a handkerchief or tissue, or his hand
• Keep hands clean: wake-up, before/after eating, enter house, during Wudu (5 times a day at least), after toilet,,,

Second: Order to find a remedy for any disease

• Hope to find remedy: He said "for God has not made a disease without appointing a remedy for it, with the exception of one disease—old age."
• Have Medical treatment : He also said : "Make use of medical treatment,"

Third: hygienic practices: Muslim must

• Wash hands after wake up
• Make Wudu 5 times a day at least ( washing the hands, arms, face, and feet, rinsing the mouth and nose, wiping the head and the ears)
• Wash hands once enter house
• Change closes once enters the house
• Wash hands before and after eating
• Wash with water, but use of toilet paper is acceptable
• Wash hands after toilet
• Use Meswak (a peice of wood from a certain kind of tree looks like brushes) to clean mouse all the day
• Differentiate right hand functions (shaking, eating, taking and giving) from left hand (in toilet)
• Bath at least once a week
• Take care of the nails at least once a week
• Keep clothes clean
• Circumcise males
• Bath after intercourse
• Prohibit intercourse with menstruate and postpartum women

At last, we have to stop here and ask:

How an illiterate person describe a 14 centuries old recipe to stop pandemic of Corona-virus?

 

[Milton Platt]

Baloney

 

[Left Coast]

Comparison between Christian and Islamic Hygiene in Medieval

Unfortunately, some people here commented that these Islamic hygiene practices are normal and some advised to read.

So, I did read and collected interesting information. The study is a comparison of Christian Europe in 10th century compared to Islamic Europe in 9th century.

What do you think a comparison of 10th century Christian practices and 9th century Muslim practices proves, exactly? Let's say, just for the sake of argument, Muslims in the 9th century had better hygiene than Christians in the 10th century. So what?

Your "research" of medieval hygiene is wildly unonformed and taken out of context, but honestly I dont need to go there. This isn't about Christianity. You want us to believe the Qur'an came from an all-knowing, perfect being. But it's vague, inaccurate, and leaves endless questions unanswered that could have saved millions, maybe billions of lives. What kind of all-knowing, loving being would send such a message?

 

[Limo]

Evidence of hand washing? Bathing? Containing sick people? Use Google, for Allah's sake.

Ritual washing in Judaism - Wikipedia

Lavabo - Wikipedia

Bathing - Wikipedia



Look, your knowledge of history is lacking. You made a claim about medieval Christians. Your claim was false.

“The very sight of her hands did almost turn my stomach”: a brief history of hand-washing

Did People in Medieval Times Really Not Bathe?

This took very little time to verify. Please educate yourself.



What book do you think is "mine?" I'm not a Christian.

You pushed me to collect some material in the post #42
What I can tell is Europe were "wild asses" as per Ahmed ibn Fadhln `while Islamic Europe have fashion, cosmetics, and luxury
Comparison between Christian and Islamic Hygiene in Medieval

Medieval Islamic societies were certainly competitive with Christian ones, but I'd hardly say your team was the clear leader for 11 centuries. Again, please read some secular history.

I did ready, do you?
Moslems started defeating Byzantine in 7th century, ended Byzantine Empire when opened Constantinople in 14th century, The last invasion in Europe was 1672–1676: Poland-Lithuania.
So from 7th century till 17th century Islamic Empires has no competition even from any European force except for fall of Andalusia. It's 10 centuries.
Another one century when Ottman empire had a lot of wars and started to ewaken.
the first defeat for Ottman empire was 1683–1699: Great Turkish War – Loss of Hungary and the Morea.

Moral civilization left the authoritarian theocracies of the Islamic Middle Ages in the dust long ago. We're happier with egalitarian secular democracy, thanks.

What in the world makes you think the world will go "upside down" in precisely 50 years? And what does that even mean?

 

[Notanumber]

Are there enough camels to satisfy the demand?

Some people apparently think it helps them cure their health problems. This is because of a passage in the Hadith (Muslim holy book) that exalts its virtues. ‘Some people of ‘Ukl or ‘Uraina tribe came to Medina and its climate did not suit them,’ the extract reads. ‘So the Prophet ordered them to go to the herd of (Milch) camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). ‘So they went as directed and after they became healthy…’


This is why people drink camel urine | Metro News


WHO officials tell people, 'don't drink fatal camel urine' over MERS virus fears | Daily Mail Online

 

[Windwalker]

Hand is used just in case no other Option.
It's used to protect others [Added]

Does it say anywhere in the Quran to sneeze into your elbow, or is the only advice to sneeze into your hand? And if the Quran only says into the hand, does it then admonish the sneezer to immediately wash his hands, or is it silent on how to not spread the germs?

While common sense tells anyone at any time in history to avoid being around sick people, I very much doubt anyone, including Mohammed even understood what viruses were, let alone how they are actually transmitted. The advice given does not reflect a modern understanding of how diseases are spread. This is not an example of magically understanding modern science in ancient times via supernaturalism.

Clearly, advising sneezing into your hand without any further advice to not touch any surfaces and then to immediately wash your hands with soap and water for at least 20 seconds, indicates they had no understanding of germs. Nobody did back then.

 

[Left Coast]

You pushed me to collect some material in the post #42
What I can tell is Europe were "wild asses" as per Ahmed ibn Fadhln `while Islamic Europe have fashion, cosmetics, and luxury
Comparison between Christian and Islamic Hygiene in Medieval

What?? One Muslim guy thought Europeans were barbaric? You don't say!

I did ready, do you?
Moslems started defeating Byzantine in 7th century, ended Byzantine Empire when opened Constantinople in 14th century, The last invasion in Europe was 1672–1676: Poland-Lithuania.
So from 7th century till 17th century Islamic Empires has no competition even from any European force except for fall of Andalusia. It's 10 centuries.
Another one century when Ottman empire had a lot of wars and started to ewaken.
the first defeat for Ottman empire was 1683–1699: Great Turkish War – Loss of Hungary and the Morea.

Your summary is wildly inaccurate. Muslims started warring against the Byzantine Empire in the 7th century, yes, but victories and losses went back and forth for centuries. Also, the Byzantine Empire was only the Eastern half of the Roman Empire.

Byzantine Empire | History, Geography, Maps, & Facts

 

[Limo]

Actually there is a list of contradictions to science available on the internet.

From Scientific Errors in the Qur'an - WikiIslam

‘Some will contest these numerous errors in the Qur'an by appealing to metaphor, alternative meanings, or phenomenological interpretations of the text.

Even supposing alternative explanations were possible in every case, the problem would remain that the Qur’an contains no obvious attempts to differentiate its understanding of the natural world and historical events from the common folklore and unscientific misconceptions of the people living in 7th century Arabia.

An all-powerful, all-knowing, perfect communicator would have been able to foresee how such misleading statements would be understood by future generations and the doubts and confusions they would cause.

Such overwhelming weakness in the Qur'an when we should expect perfection is already reason enough to reject any claims to its divine authorship.’

This type of lists is not new, It has been addressed many times. Accepting/rejecting such allegations depend on which side you're setting. Who ever reads in neural, will find the truth.
There are also Islamic sites explains the signs of science in Quran.

 

[Limo]

What do you think a comparison of 10th century Christian practices and 9th century Muslim practices proves, exactly? Let's say, just for the sake of argument, Muslims in the 9th century had better hygiene than Christians in the 10th century. So what?

"Better" is not an accurate word.
The idea is hygiene in Islam is a religion practice, Moslem should do it.

Your "research" of medieval hygiene is wildly unonformed and taken out of context, but honestly I dont need to go there.

Don't go there.

This isn't about Christianity. You want us to believe the Qur'an came from an all-knowing, perfect being. But it's vague, inaccurate, and leaves endless questions unanswered that could have saved millions, maybe billions of lives. What kind of all-knowing, loving being would send such a message?

I didn't ask you to beleive. Allah told us in Quran about people like you "
And if you brought to those who were given the Scripture every sign, they would not follow your qiblah" qibla is the direction for prayer. i.e. follow Islam

 

[Left Coast]

"Better" is not an accurate word.
The idea is hygiene in Islam is a religion practice, Moslem should do it.

Neat, so what?

Don't go there.

No need.

I didn't ask you to beleive. Allah told us in Quran about people like you "
And if you brought to those who were given the Scripture every sign, they would not follow your qiblah" qibla is the direction for prayer. i.e. follow Islam

You haven't brought me "every sign." You've dodged and evaded my questions and brought up completely irrelevant (not to mention inaccurate) comparisons to medieval Christians.

 

[McBell]

This type of lists is not new, It has been addressed many times.

Actually, they have been dismissed, not addressed.

Accepting/rejecting such allegations depend on which side you're setting.

I agree.
Those who want/need them to be divine and all will believe so.
Those who do not want them to be relevant, will not.

Who ever reads in neural, will find the truth.

except that your next claim will be that anyone who does not accept the divine of it could not be neural...
Been there, done that, wore out the t-shirt.

There are also Islamic sites explains the signs of science in Quran.

well, they make sad attempts at trying real hard to make it look like something divine, but fail miserably.