How so? Aren't these typical of Fascism?
They're not that vague, and doesn't RWA underlie Fascism? Right-wing authoritarianism - Wikipedia
They're common symptoms.
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14 Signs of Fascism
- Thread starter Secret Chief
- Start date
They're common symptoms.
Secret Chief
Very strong language
Goebbels would agree.
No, it doesn't. We've been over this before. That's a psychological concept with a horrible name, as you find the same psychology on the far-left. Has nothing to do with Fascism as an ideology.
Didn't Jesus hate patriotism? Didn't he preach Christian unity: "...neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ."
Well, sure, because I'm actually telling you what they believed (or at least as far as I can recall from my studies), not what leftists and liberals think about it and project onto it, which is what you mostly find in these discussions.
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Altfish
Veteran Member
You beat me to it.
exchemist
Veteran Member
Arf arf. That would be the new Brillo Pad vehicle, I presume.
I don't even have a TV, actually. I take the FT daily and look at the BBC and Grauniad websites. Though I have to say the BBC one seems to be getting more and more stupid and trivial in its coverage.
Augustus
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I'd personally say it has none of them in any meaningful "pre-fascist" sense.
Many exist to some degree of course, but they do in basically every country in the world.
This is the horoscope aspect of it.
Much of the centre left in the UK has gone insane as a result of Brexit and think the sky is falling. It is an emotional reaction to the world not unfurling the way the ideology of liberal progress suggested it would. Such people tend to assume they were "on the right side of history", as such nefarious forces must be at play.
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
After 10 years of government austerity and huge cuts to every area of public spending including defence, those two boats represent pretty much the entire operational capacity of the Royal Navy. One thing we are absolutely not ready for, is war with anyone at all.
The current U.K. government are not above populism or jingoistic sabre rattling. Bit of a stretch to call them fascist, or to detect the sound of jackboots stamping on a human face in the U.K.
Le Pen, on the other hand...
Augustus
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This is the odd thing about centre-left British folk, they eulogise Europe as some kind of progressive paradise while decrying 'fascist' Britain without ever noticing that the actual far-right does far better in most European countries than it does in the UK.
Military spending is one of the few areas of increased spending. Approximately doubled in the last 20 years. And up 5% in the last year
And i see no stretch, the uk gov meets many of the points in the op.
But a agree with you about le pen, however she and her party are not in power
I might also add indicators of social Darwinism, such as ideas that "only the strong shall survive. Fascism relies heavily on principles of natural law, such that "the weak and cowardly perish, and perish justly." Frat boys, jocks, cops who like to pick on nerds and weaklings - they're the perfect fascists.
15. The guy that wants to be in charge is orange.
If they are nice huts.
Secret Chief
Very strong language
That's a good point. The people that end up subjugating, enforcing and implementing aren't bussed-in from out of town, they're here amongst us - neighbours and (sometimes) friends. They are the foot soldiers, the useful idiots, of the political leaders.
Secret Chief
Very strong language
My take is not that the high score of the UK shows the government is a fascist one, but that the 14 are indicators of the direction of political travel. As is often said, Nazism in Germany took years to be expressed; Hitler's attempted coup was in 1923.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
I am also deeply concerned by the direction of political travel, in the U.K. as in almost every other democracy from India to the US via most of Europe. The growth of nationalism, phony patriotism, and the willingness with which politicians drape themselves in flags, are all worrying echos of the 1930s.
But I think one should be very cautious using labels like fascism, when discussing one’s political opponents. Believe me, I have no love for Boris Johnson or his government. But if the U.K. is in danger of becoming a one party state - or rather a jigsaw of fractured one party states - it’s not because the Tories are a bunch of fascists. It’s in part because the left needs to get it’s act together, quickly (but not to panic).
There are many aspects of the UKs electoral system that are over ripe for reform, in particular the first-past-the-post system which sends MPs to Westminster; what a pity Nick Clegg failed to achieve any progress on this issue when in bed - sorry, in power - with David Cameron. But elections in the U.K. are free and fair. Last year’s Presidential election suggests they are free and fair in the US also.
Boris Johnson has scant respect for his own country’s institutions. He has scant respect for anything at all. I consider him an individual of appalling character, not fit for high office. But he is no more a fascist, than Harold Wilson was a communist.
Secret Chief
Very strong language
I agree.
I don't see how the FPTP system is going to be got rid of, given it reinforces the status quo and both main parties have essentially supported it (historically). Labour is still saying it won't go into alliance with other parties. The tories are looking to make the mayoral elections FPTP, obviously to enhance their prospects.
As to Labour getting its act together, a vocal (and therefore public) proportion of the membership seem more interested in attacking each other rather than the common enemy. It seems like two parties shackled together.
Augustus
…
It also misses the point that the main threat to these countries is not "fascism" but illiberal democracy.
Unfortunately that label isn't Hitlery enough, to tar the other side with.
Using democratic infrastructure and methods to enact illiberal policies can also be a tool of the 'left" as well as the "right" which is another reason for wheeling out the fascist trope. "How can we be intolerant? We are literally anti-fascists".
While there are obviously arguments in favour of PR, it does help extremist parties get a foot in the door and affords them leverage too.
It's not without downsides in preventing illiberaliam.
Given half of the traditional Labour base has spent the last decade calling much of the other half stupid, bigoted racists and generally displaying open contempt for them, might not be the easiest thing to do.
Particularly in England, the Progressive middle class bloc largely despises the English working class (many also despise England). Given current ideological priorities among the bien-pensants this feeling seems more likely to grow than heal.
HonestJoe
Well-Known Member
I'd question the idea of general distain for human rights, rampant sexism or obsession with national security in the UK. I'd also suggest that celebrity culture suggests the very opposite of distain for the arts and that we don't have significantly fraudulent elections.